In other words, Rovers have paid £4.4m cash and owe £2.1m. Therefore what dado prso is really saying is that Rangers should repay £4.4m cash now and cancel the £2.1m owing. Then the Rovers will start negotiating their profit on top....

No but every club which holds a long term contract on a player who asks to make a move makes a profit on the deal. Apart from anything else, it buys the Agent out of disconduct charges and the buying club from tapping up charges. If the selling club is making a loss, they can turn elsewhere to the guilty parties to make up their loss. Any price from Rangers of less than £6.5m is a total dream. Forget it. The reason I mentioned wages etc. is that in legal and commercial terms (forget football and let's talk the commercial and legal reality of the real world) these could be included as part of Rovers' investment. Note that Hughes said, Rovers would look for a return on their investment. Not just a profit on the transfer fee.

As a non-UK URL, you cannot access The Times web site without paying a small fortune. None of us outside the UK can read it.

Prso's formula is £2m plus £2.1m debt forgiveness. Can he give Blackburn Rovers one good reason why they should take a £2.4m loss on transfer fees, a £2m hit in wages and probably a several hundred thousand pounds hit in medical expenses so that Viola and the Fergusons can run their property business together more conveniently? As for attacking Viola, if you have any more dirt you can dish on him, please contribute to the John Viola thread on this MB.

A pretty comprehensive piece charting the decline of Rangers and the hard fact, not appreciated by the Gers posting on here, that the days of austerity are definitely not over. Amongst the many rumours circulating is one that Everton have tapped up Ricksen and that Gers are unable to match the £25K per week the Toffees are willing to pay him. Ricksen must be thoroughly unhappy with the openly canvassed £30,000 a week five year contract apparently awaiting Ferguson if he goes back home- not that it is much more (if any) than he is already getting at Rovers. Put it into perspective: The Greek centre half Rangers signed this week is joining on £14K a week. Rovers' accounts for 2002/3 would suggest some £30m was spent on wages for the first team squad. For that to be true, the AVERAGE wage of the 25-man Rovers' squad was £23K a week. Meantime McLeish was talking yesterday about the Ferguson situation: “We haven’t heard from Blackburn or from any other sources about what the outcome may be,” said McLeish. “If nothing is done [in the current window] we would need to see whether we felt it was futile to try again for him in the summer or whether a deal could be resurrected.” Hardly the words of a Manager who is confident his Chairman will back him financially to secure his number one transfer target! Deep down, Murray knows Rangers cannot compete and he probably greatly regrets this Ferguson saga ever started.

Well, its there now. I controlled myself because we don't want any trouble for the site. Robbie Savage had this to say last week: "Birmingham hold all the cards. I'm their player. Unless Blackburn come in with more money, that's the end of it. "Equally, everyone has a price and if Blackburn come up with more money, then I suppose I'll be gone." That is exactly the situation with Ferguson, Rovers and Rangers now. I cannot access the Times web site but apparently they had a quote from Ferguson today indicating something similar.

This is a link with quotes from the 7th JANUARY!!! "Blackburn Rovers have blasted speculation linking Barry Ferguson with a return to Rangers, while his agent also insisted the Scotland international is going nowhere." I will own up, yes I am upset about this thing and probably a touch obsessed. I am going to open a new thread within the next hour on the stuff I have just found. It's not very nice.

Even Broxibears have got the message. They assume Barry is going "hame" but they also recognise that Rangers are going to have to pay the Rovers in full for him. Murray is on the horns of a dilemma- he is the victim of a jumbo heist. What started out as loose talk in the euphoria of the semi-refinancing of Rangers debt "we'll be able to bring Barry home" has become a monster. McLeish latched onto the wildly popular idea of signing Ferguson in an attempt to save his own job and Viola spotted a quick killing and a chance to rescue his badly tarnished reputation after the vicious words from Aberdeen and Hibs. The whole thing gathered momentum rather than having any master plan as rumours escalated into speculation. Then JW took charge by calling Viola and Ferguson in for a chat at a time he and not they wanted and Murray made a half-hearted pathetic offer couched around with complete inaccuracies topped off with calling on the player to find his own way out of Ewood. In went the transfer request a week later and now even Ranger's own supporters are telling Murray to cough up Blackburn's price- not what Murray had in mind at all especially as all the indications are he wasn't that fussed about Ferguson going back in the first place!

Scotty, it's not a good situation- I'm not pretending otherwise. But equally, I think your assertions are ludicrous. Tell me. I don't know what you do but aren't there other companies in your industry you would fancy working for or other locations you would like to work in? Have you ever been for a job interview whilst still working for another company? If you have, does that make you incapable of working for your existing employer? Sure you get excited at the prospect of moving, get low when it doesn't happen; but you realise you are happy where you are and get on with it. There will be very few people looking at this who will not recognise themselves in those situations. Doesn't mean they are doing a lousy job where they are employed does it? Of course every footballler would play at Stamford Bridge given the chance but they cannot so get on with doing a thoroughly professional job where they are. If your existing employer knows you would prefer to be somewhere else but are basically happy where you are, what does a good and caring employer do? I would suggest he tries to facilitate a transfer making sure no harm is done to his own business but if that is not possible, the employer will sit down and work with you to ensure your motivation and that the disappointment doesn't cloud the fact that you are already happy where you are. That was exactly what Mark Hughes did yesterday- he opened the door for Barry to go to Ibrox so long as Rovers were not damaged financially. I know it is different in the hot house goldfish bowl of football but only by degree. A different analogy. Company A buys Company B for £6.5m and the Directors of Company B sign a four year service contract with Company A. Eighteen months into the Agreement, an Investment Bank comes to the Directors of Company B with a proposal for a Management Buy-Out of Company B and together they table a proposition to buy out for £3m to Company A. Company A is quite happy with the acquisition- its not hitting the top end of forecasts but it is one of the better performing divisions. It is pretty ###### off with what has happened and declines politely and firmly. It indicates it wants a profit from its investment which would suggest an £8m buy-out price, otherwise the matter should be closed. If the Investment Bank and the Company B Directors then persist but now pursue their scheme using non-cooperation to the extent that £3.5m of value is destroyed, then I can promise you, m'learned friends would be briefed, injunctions issued and they'd be seeing each other in the High Court. Football is a different world but not THAT different. My reading of the situation is that in their childish, yah boo (football) way, Brum showed what a football club can do when its best asset decides to hand in a transfer request whilst under a long term contract. The statement by Gordon Taylor that footballers do not have all the power in these contractual situations and that the contract enabled Birmingham to make a substantial gain had two intents: - PR to diffuse any backlash against footballers and the PFA, AND - a clear warning to his members who are on long term contracts that if they put in transfer requests, they can ONLY expect to move if the selling club makes a PROFIT. And by implication, don't expect much more than sympathy from the PFA if it doesn't work out for them if the selling club doesn't make a profit and as a result takes whatever action it deems fit. 1864 Roverite's post at 18.22 yesterday on page 37 sums up the situation exactly as it is. BRFC holds the whole stack of cards. The analogy is perfect- you can have a great hand in the crap game, but you still have to play the hand with skill to win. I'm simply pointing out that Rovers are playing their hand with great skill and to the extent anyone from Rovers read this thread, they need to understand there are supporters out there who: - understand and appreciate that - will be very angry if we loose out financially when we don't need to - will be very happy to welcome Back and be very supportive of Barry Ferguson in the blue and white halved shirt when the club has resolved this mess.

Actually Ranger Rover, I had forgotten about Hendry. Yet another example where the selling club extracted a huge price from the purchaser for a player they did not want to sell but the player wanted to go. As I have previously pointed out, there are parrallel markets depending on the length of contract left. Measured against £8m for Boumsong, £7m for Distan, sure Barry is worth £8.5m. That's the market he is in and saying he is worth no more than £4m is empty- it doesn't buy anything except perhaps a lawsuit from Blackburn Rovers against the player and agent to recover the value they have destroyed. This transfer is particularly odd as the player has by all accounts prevented an open auction in which the Rovers could get highest price. The newspaper cutting quoting David Moyes saying that he would have bid for Barry had the player not said he would only leave Rovers for Rangers is no doubt sitting in an appropriate file. The key difference with Savage and Everton is that Savage rebuffed Everton after Rovers and Brum had agreed a deal and after Brum had made a fat profit on him. There has been no public movement on this matter today so my odds now swing heavilly towards Rangers failing. I am sure the journos are tracking the key people so there are unlikely to be secret meetings happening. One poster on this thread showed how Rangers had already spent the Boumsong money so Murray is clearly going to get nowhere near the Rovers' requirement unless he is willing to lend more personally to Rangers. The only question left on this issue now is how an elegant solution can be engineered for Ferguson to carry on playing with the Rovers.

Teamtalk saying the same thing Meanwhilst the Scots dream on... However, it is interesting to see that the majority of that report is given over to what Blackburn Rovers have to say about it all. Hitherto, the Scottish press were treating this putative transfer as purely a matter of when David Murray applied the coup de grace. It still is if he offers £8m

This is part of the other half of the Soccernet article which appeared about ten minutes ago: "Rangers have already had one £3million offer rejected and Blackburn, who still owe £2.5million from the original £6.5million fee from the Glasgow club, insist they will hold out for much more. "Hughes said: 'It is very difficult for myself and the board to really understand which way this is going to go. " 'Rangers have not come in with anything like a realistic bid and it is very difficult to say which way we can go with it. " 'We will be speaking to Barry and his representatives on Monday and maybe then we will have a clearer picture.' "Ferguson has also handed in a transfer request but Hughes denied it was exactly the same situation as had existed with Savage. "He said: 'The difference is the level we wanted Robbie at. We made Birmingham a significant increase on their investment and Rangers have not on ours and unless they do he will remain our player.' " This is significant in that having effectively called the bluffs of Rangers, Viola and Ferguson, it is the FIRST time Rovers have talked about a transfer fee- A SIGNIFICANT INCREASE OVER OUR INVESTMENT. Of course investment can be interpreted as including wages, expenses and medical fees plus the experience of playing in the Prem So it is put up or shut up for Rangers. They said they wanted it resolved a week before the transfer window closes- here is the chance. Clearly Rovers will be sitting down with Ferguson on Monday either with an acceptable offer from Rangers in hand (highly unlikely) or on the basis of Rangers having failed to follow through and therefore getting him to withdraw his request without the club ever having to refuse his request. If Rangers play games, it is Mark Hughes talking, with JW, the Board and the Walker Trustees all held in reserve. Beginning to look like we might see the Savage/Ferguson partnership make its debut on Monday evening. Which two from Emerton, Thompson and MGP will be with them?

This is half an article which appeared on Soccernet about ten minutes ago- doesn't look like peace is breaking out just yet : Robbie Savage today insisted he will never forgive Birmingham for the way the club treated him before his £3million move to Blackburn. Savage said he had been deeply hurt by being made to train with the youth team and play for the reserves after he handed in a transfer request. The 30-year-old, who was unveiled by Rovers this morning, said: 'I have gone through a lot and I think it had gone too far and had become on a personal level. 'The bottom line is that I'm 30, I'm a father and I was being made to train with the kids or on my own. 'To treat me the way they did was something I could possibly never forgive them for. 'The last couple of weeks have been horrible, I have not been eating through all the stress and worry, I have lost about 8lb. 'Birmingham have been coming out with things about me almost every day and I want to pay tribute to the way Blackburn handled this. I just kept my mouth shut for a change, I wanted to say what I felt but I couldn't.' Savage also responded to criticism of his insistence that moving to Blackburn would make him closer to his parents in Wrexham. 'That was pretty hurtful for people to belittle me and say that Blackburn was further from Wrexham than Birmingham. 'I lived in Stratford-upon-Avon and it took me two-and-a-half hours to get to Wrexham; now I am playing for Blackburn I will find a house in the Cheshire area 35 minutes' drive from my parents.' The Welshman admitted there had been times when he wondered if he had taken the right course of action, such was the vitriolic response from Birmingham fans. He added: 'To put in a transfer request was perhaps a pretty bold thing to do. I'm not sure I was adored by the fans at Birmingham but I think I was respected, and there were times I was thinking if I had done the right thing, but now I'm here at Blackburn I know I have. 'Mark Hughes was my hero, I had pictures of him on my wall when I was eight and I think as a manager he is the best. 'Now I just want to prove myself to the Blackburn fans, £3million for a 30-year-old is quite a lot of money.'

OK fine. But why make the comment without disclosing what it is he knows? Just comes over as a supercilious know-all. Of course there will be a multiplicity of reasons why Ferguson has suddenly pushed a move to Rangers to the top of his agenda. ...and what were the rumours about Cantona?

Its just been confirmed that Ken Bates has bought Leeds for £10m. Doubt it will be as lucrative as the 1p he spent to buy Chelsea or as much fun given Leeds have been busy exiting the property-ownership business already!

Shearer- statistically must be getting towards being one of the top if not the top striker in English football since the war. Will anyone ever equal scoring over 30 goals in three consequetive Premiership seasons? I am keeping my powder dry to advance the case of my second nomination waiting for the second vote. But I am unhesitatingly opting for Simon Garner.

Moerpho, you could be right about the gentleman's agreement with the Board about poaching. Certainly, the Rovers could have made his passage to Newcastloe a lot rougher than it was and no doubt they got something from Newcastle in return. Nothing much in the Scottish Newspapers this morning apart from hopeful comments about the inevitability of Ferguson's return and it only requires an extra £1m on Murray's original offer (you mean raising it to £1.5m ) to secure Blackburn's agreement. Some interesting comments in this article from a journalist who has steadfastly criticised Ferguson's desire to go back to Rangers on footballing grounds. The derision he heaps on Murray's management of Rangers and the extremely tenuous position McLeish's job is in are highlighted. Given Rovers have the larger turnover the comment about Rangers being a much larger club needs a little qualification as well. The comment that Ferguson's "unhappiness" at Blackburn is linked to Souness' departure is another sign that even the enlightened Scots are very out of touch with reality or have chosen to ignore at least two press comments made by Ferguson within the last two months. Elsewhere, I saw a comment that Ferguson's very best mate at Rangers was Craig Moore- of course he is no longer there. However, the most telling observation I saw from north of the border was the comment that if Murray is to succeed in securing Ferguson, he will have to dig deep into his own pocket. Therein lies the rub. Murray is totally exposed on this one. I suspect if he doesn't get Ferguson now, Ferguson will never go back to Rangers. How could he when having publicly encouraged Ferguson to put in the transfer request from Rovers, Murray fails to follow through and pay the neccessary amount to secure the player? One final point for now. The reason why tapping up charges are so rarely seen is that the successful buying club pays enough to buy everyone's silence. Villa got charged by Southampton after an alleged failed tapping up. Rovers might have enough dirt to have the ability either to force Rangers to buy Ferguson at their price (if they want to) or have Viola and Rangers face a UEFA investigation which would be a bit different to the FA exercise O'Leary has just been through. Perhaps someone who knows UEFA rules could help but wouldn't Rangers and Viola be suspended from transfer activity whilst the accusations are investigated?

Gordon Strachan on tapping up with a fleeting reference to Savage. Izzitnot, in my experience Bruce is not nice. He is mean petty and ungracious. But then I've never been on the same side as him having seen Rovers in opposition to him from Gillingham to Birmingham.

Click on the blue writing in the first post.

I love it when these football journos increase their own self-perception of having everyone think they are on the inside and therefore valuable fonts of knowledge who gullible football fans will buy pints for just to listen to the titbits using "I know something but I cannot say it" comments. Phew. Must happen at least two or three times on different subjects every week in the incestuous world of journalists interviewing journalists dressed up as factual programming. Back to Ferguson, the guy is going to have the rather big carrot of re-establishing his reputation if he stays at Ewood. He will also be playing for the Rovers to offer a decently remunerative (as opposed to perfunctory) contract extension. Then it will be the Dunn test. Either he signs up for a two year extension or he gets sold on the Rovers' terms to the highest bidder.

Hasta, you are dead right and that is why it became so acrimonious. If you have ever met Steve Bruce, you will know how conceited and self-righteous he is. He will be in agonies over this. Savage probably brought his parents into this simply because saying "I would prefer to play for Mark Hughes and Mark Bowen" was not going to help matters at St Andrews. Gold and Sullivan have very high opinions of themselves and deep down are probably sore about the cheques they've been writing for messrs Dunn, Taylor and Yorke. I also suspect they would have been uncomfortable about the Yorke abuse row and how they ended up saying different things and backing a player whom they were about to ditch. Having Rovers march in and take Savage in very similar circumstances to how they took Bruce from Palace must have added insult to injury. As for Karen Brady, she's cute and quite sharp but I'm not going to write or say what I really think has been going on there.

Just read that article- sums Birmingham City up perfectly. Conceited, contradictory, abusive, easilly offended and basically ****-scared that with their injuries and loss of Savage, they could be in deep trouble. What a vote of confidence in Diao "Blues Legend"?!? I have got a brain which hordes useless information, particularly remembering players Rovers have played against but no way can I remember this guy playing at Birmingham, Man City or West Brom. Dear old Simon Garner is much more of a national household name. Incidentally, isn't it interesting how people deride history when they don't have any themselves?

At the risk of stirring a hornet's nest but Hughes has said he has never known a dressing room as quiet as Rovers' when he took over. No doubt it was a lot quieter than the one he played in as a Rover. I suspect Todd has got the band because Hughes is signalling it is OK to have a mind of your own and to have disagreed with Souness. That was a huge reason for getting Savage and why he liked Mokoena and Nelsen. That is the typical legacy of a bullying Manager- all the characters, motivators, movers and shapers leave and the timid, the conformist and the downright frightened are left. I am pretty certain the arm band will go to one of the new boys.

Of course Scotty, that would have to be part of the rehabilitation deal. If Rangers are not willing to pay anything like Rovers' asking price and he has stuck himself into this extraordinary "it's only Rangers or Rovers" corner, what other option does he have short of going on strike and losing his income? Incidentally, Birmingham effectively used a lock-out against Savage; footballers' contracts cannot be that good then.

Krislu, John Williams has said the £2.1m (the real number) will be paid when it is due at the end of August and is irrelevant so far as the Rovers are concerned. Scotty, I think Murray's reputation is massively overdone when it comes to running the business called Glasgow Rangers. Look at the Gers' fans' forums- they clearly think there is a high bullshit factor so far as their Chairman is concerned. The guy has made a fool of himself on the Ferguson deal already- most statements he has made have included a significant inaccuracy which was easilly disproved. Rangers did a Leeds and plunged £75m into debt, but unlike Leeds, Murray was able to bail them out through his own pocket. Over recent years, Rangers have been a selling club because of the huge debts- in the last two and a half seasons their transfers out raked in £35m whilst transfers in cost £9m- of that £6m went on Arteta and £1m on Mladenovic. Neither could be said to be good deals. In the good old days, Murray blew £12m on Torre Andre Flo from Chelsea and an amazing £5.5m on Andre Kanchelskis from Fiorentina when the winger was already way past it (basically dumped out of Everton) and Fiorentina were as good as bust. My candid view is that Viola has set this thing up too soon for Rangers who cannot afford Ferguson without the certainty of Champions League Group matches which they won't have until late August- if they qualify. Murray probably planned to bank the Boumsong windfall and is being opportunist in reacting to events rather than determined about Ferguson. In fact, I would go so far as to hazard a guess that the bad timing is in part due to McLeish desperately trying to save himself from the sack and in part to Viola working the Fergusons very hard to get them to say they want to go to Glasgow strongly enough then jumping the moment he got the words he wanted (Bryan's very good point about the poor timing relative to the window and remember it took John Williams to bring the matter to a head). Nobody has got Ferguson to say they he has changed his mind about being happy in the Blackburn area or Barry's satisfaction with the Hughes team and the way they are going about things. Your point about the fans would carry a little more validity if Ferguson had come out slagging off us or the club. However, I think Hughes has established such a high regard with the fans that if he as our Manager continues to throw his weight behind Ferguson, the fans will follow.