Yes, I think Palmer is potentially a really good player given a free sort of role across the pitch just behind the striker. I fully expect him to go to another Championship Club and excel Shame TM hasn't been brave enough to allow him and Dack to link up more often and form an understanding. My worry we will lose Dack in January and the guy who was a ready made replacement, at least in the short term whilst we consider our options, will already have gone back. if that happens, if you thought we were bad now.............

I felt Smallwood was a little unfortunate, in real time it was a 50-50 challenge, the ball was there to be won, his body wasn't off the ground, I'm not sure he was overly reckless and he was only a split second away from getting to the ball first. 20 years ago that may not have even warranted a yellow. That said, in today's climate I don't think there'd be any mileage whatsoever in appealing it, and more to the point as others have said at 11 v 10 there's absolutely no need to go diving in and give the referee a decision to make. I think TM's comments are merely an attempt to deflect a bit of attention away from himself and the players after another embarrassing collapse. I don't agree with TM either that at 11 v 10 there was only one winner. For some inexplicable reason our intensity levels dropped off completely as soon as they went down to ten. The same thing happened at Boro, we started fannying about and passing the ball sideways and backwards almost as if we were the ones trying to hold out for a point when in both cases we should have been going for the jugular. Very strange.

Based on what I've seen of us under TM in the 2 seasons or so he's been here I wouldn't be desperately upset were he to be replaced. However, my opinion of him hasn't changed one way or the other based on today, I thought he made an uncharacteristicly brave team selection today and for much of the match it looked like it was working a treat. The only thing I would criticise him for would be two very poor substitutions. I only hope he holds his nerve and continues down the route he dabbled with of trying to play with a bit more invention.

One thing that looked apparent today was that if Reed is out best central midfielder by some margin then Travis is the second best by some margin. How he hasn't featured before now is beyond me and he'll probably get dropped for the next game as well.

Yep, our young players need to plait sawdust every single game or they get dropped like Nuttall who scored 4 in 5 last season then who as soon as he didn't score was dropped never to be seen again.

Didn't threaten but I thought they all linked up well first half. If it was the first game of the season and not game 25 everyone would have been saying he did ok.

Weird game. First half I thought was 1000% better than the stale old shite we've been watching since the QPR game. Smallwood was having a great game, Travis and Reed were providing the urgency we usually lack in midfield and Rothwell and Palmer were inventive on either flank. Without unduly threatning Brereton looked a very mobile outlet and at half time I was very happy. Second half the worst thing that could have happened was them going down to ten. We seemed to lose all our urgency and started to knock the ball out aimlessly sideways and backwards as is our wont. Still no major need to panic at that stage though. However I thought the manager got the subs completely wrong. If he was bringing Brereton off, Graham needed to come on and taking Palmer off was really harsh as he'd had a good game I thought. Armstrong came on and started on the right wing then floated about a bit and barely touched the ball. With Dack dropping deep the changes left us a goal down and no-one up front. I'd like to see the sending off again. Smallwood may have gone in slightly studs up but it was a split second thing and the referee who'd been getting the bird off the crowd couldnt seem to wait to pull a red out and even it up. After Smallwood was dismissed we completely fell apart. Goal 2 resulted from Rothwell taking an outrageous dive in their area to try and win a penalty and less than ten seconds later the ball was in the back of our net. The lack of resilience is frightning. Not sure where we go from here. Fear TM will revert to the same old same old which hasnt been working whereas in the first half it looked as though we were on the right lines. Dack looked exceptionally pally with the opposition players at the whistle. Somewhat worrying.

Spot on.

Having dropped Evans, please please perform today Rovers. Lol. Particularly hope Palmer, Travis and Brereton have blinders.

I thought Dack had his best game for a long time at Leeds. Palmer needs to be in his favoured position of number 10 behind the striker. (BB) If we line up with BB on the wing and Palmer up front I'll scream.

Well done TM for shaking it up a bit. Not sure about Dack on the bench but other than that looking forward to it slightly more now.

Lol. On the away travel now about 25 mins away. Beautiful sunny day. What could possibly go wrong? My mates reckon they've cracked it. Leave on 80 mins, go home happy and don't check the results for a week.

I didn't realise until I checked last night that after 24 games, other than Dack, Graham and Mulgrew the rest of the squad have only contributed SIX goals between them. That's absolutely appalling and unless we can sort that out, which will probably require the manager to revamp his philosophy we're bound to struggle. In fact, it's probably surprising we've as many points as we have. Stop Dack (and don't give away any penalties or stupid free kicks on the edge of your box) and essentially you stop Rovers.

For me they're both fairly limited but at least Smallwood is a battler and does his best to get stuck in. Evans has no heart imo and it always seems to me as though his primary aim is to get through the 90 mins expending the minimum effort possible.

He has looked decent in central midfield and I would have no real problem with him being selected in that position but TM never plays him there barring an injury crisis. imo he is hopeless out wide on either flankand not particularly good at RB. Reed shouldn't be playing on the right wing either but if you're choosing between the two there's surely no comparison.

We'll see if TM is genuinely bothered by the recent calamities in his team selection tomorrow. My bet would be not and it's basically "same again lads" with any changes being limited to maybe Smallwood coming back in for Rodwell and no doubt he wont be able to resist bringing the ineffective Bennett back in the second he's fit.

I committed to going a few weeks ago and dearly wish I wasn't. It's getting pretty soul destroying wasting your time and money watching anti football only to see us lose or on the occasions we do manage to crab a lead courtesy of a free kick or penalty carelessly toss it away.

I'm in a minority of two with possibly Neal who think that where Evans and Smallwood are concerned Smallwood is by far the lesser of two evils. For me without Smallwood to back him up we saw how poor Evans is against Leeds, Jason Lowe apart he's the ultimate nothing player and he looked like a little boy lost playing with the adults the other day. I honestly believe we'd look better with any combination of our other midfielders other than Evans . Get Reed if fit (or Travis if not) and Smallwood in the middle to give us a bit of energy and bite. Don't allow Williams anywhere near the starting eleven and bring Palmer and Rothwell in so we've half a chance of passing the ball to each other and we might stand a bit more of a chance.

Neither. They weren't good enough to stop us going down and we wouldn't have been promoted without Dack. At the time we were relegated I'd say only Mulgrew would have been considered a major loss although Graham has done better since. I'm sure that ideally they would rather not have played in League 1 but obviously they must have been well enough remunerated not to receive an equivalent or better offer from a Club higher up the pyramid. Bit of a stretch to call it a masterstroke on behalf of the manager.

Unless it was very well hidden, there was zero interest in any of those three at whatever money they were on.

Some fair points and probably not time to pull the trigger yet but the possibility someone else worse might be appointed should never be a reason against making a change if things clearly aren't working. Personally in the long term I just don't see us progressing much beyond the point where we are now under TM so for me the question is do we soldier on indefinitely in an attempt to preserve the status quo and cement ourselves as a perennial lower mid table championship outfit or at some point do we have to be slightly more ambitious and take a bit of a gamble? If the latter, is there any real point in delaying it indefinitely?

The first thing for me that needs to change is that TM needs to stop being too loyal to the players who have been here some considerable time and be a lot more ruthless in attempting to improve the squad. Team spirit can only get you so far and we still have the rump of the squad that got us relegated last time round. I've said numerous times that those players will do for TM eventually unless he is careful.

I find it astounding that you think "we aren't too far away". The main worry for me is not that we have one win in eight etc etc (as if the worst comes to the worst we should have enough points in the bank to limp to survival) but rather the fact that long term we are showing no signs whatsoever of progression as a Club. I think most supporters in the summer thought that if we were to compete as opposed to merely survive at this level the first team needed considerable strengthening in key areas i.e. centre back, a dominant central midfielder one or preferably two main strikers and a couple of genuine wingers. TM completely ignored this preferring not to upset the players already here and overloaded the squad with midfielders who with the benefit of hindsight he hasn't used. He has also handed new deals to players who either aren't good enough or who are on their last legs. I don't think any blame can be attached to the owners in this, if you take TM at face value and the money was there all along for him in summer then he had a budget of c 11m for transfer fees plus loan fees and wages for all the loanees plus questionable contract extensions which overall should have been more than adequate to strengthen the first eleven. However there doesn't seem to be any suggestion whatsoever that we're looking to make the Reed deal permanent so once he goes back we'll be no better off than when we were promoted. If god help us Dack has had enough of carrying us or were to be sold then we'd be considerably weaker than where we were at the start of this season so the whole process of trying to merely consolidate would start again from a far weaker starting point.

Spot on. If that's the attitude of the team then it's completely wrong and it's no wonder we're on the wrong end of so many comebacks. The aim should be to be two or three goals up by the hour mark and have the game done and dusted. If we do occasionally find ourselves in a game where it's tight then so be it but that shouldn't be the aim or expectation.

We've still got half the season to go yet. Long way to go before we can say we've finished 10th to 14th. Carry on as we are doing and it'll be 20th to 24th.