RevidgeBlue

This. "Historic failures" my arse. Same owners, same COO. The only thing that you could possibly say is that it was solely because Waggott was refusing to extend any contracts which I could run with to an extent, but, even if that were the case then following his departure they COULD have rectified these "historic failures" instantly by sorting out the contracts of Dolan/Brittain/Travis/Tronstad/Hyam etc. They dont or didn't want to. End of story.

It would be another "exciting opportunity" no doubt.

Before they fell out for whatever reason Travis did have a good first season under JDT.

Not sure how old you are but the Club didn't start when Jack Walker took over. We've had managers prior to that who've had to work in far more restricted financial circumstances than VI.

Ismael reminds me of Iley greatly. The only surprise to me really is that he actually managed to pick up a few wins last season albeit they were in matches which looked like dead rubbers at the time.

No. Why would I? 2 charlatans gone in the form of him and Waggott. 2 more in the shape of Suhail and Gestede to go. Probably 3 with Ismael.

Yes. The only thing you can say slightly in their defence is that this carnage should come as no surprise. Gestede specifically said during the car crash interviews that the fact so many key players were out of contract was "an exciting opportunity" so it was obvious what was coming.

I'll judge him purely on results. We've had plenty of other managers in the past who've had far less to work with.

If Gestede doesn't know what he is doing and/or is hell bent on a project that cannot possibly work, why is it important they're both aligned?

I agree. It's far from the first thing I'd be lining up to criticise VI for, I reckon he may well turn out to be one of our worst ever managers which is far more relevant. However If negotiations have been going on in private behind the scenes then for him to unilaterally announce this without the permission of the Travis camp then it's pretty poor form. Then of course, there's the possibility that Derby won't meet our valuation anyway in which case VI will have besmirched Travis's reputation in the eyes of the supporters for no good reason. It comes across as though he is acting to instruction and trying to ensure Travis leaves.

As regards Vi's comments about Tyjon and Montgomery being viewed as first team squad players wouldn't people say that Leonard looks a better option at this point? (Not that either are satisfactory.) I suppose Leonard hasnt got Arsenal allegedly lined up waiting to pay £1m for him.

I haven't actually seen what Ismael said but I'm guessing he DIDN'T say "Trav wants to leave because we won't pay the going rate for Championship players any more".

What a fucking joke. The guy that held us back for years when the owners actually still retained a bit of an interest being honoured.

Exactly so. The senior players are voting with their feet and thankfully debunking some of the nonsense Elliott puts out on behalf of the Club.

Beck as well don't forget. if Hyam goes that would be an entire back line gone. Beck, Hyam, Batth, Brittain. If Travis and Tronstad go, that would be the midfield gone. Plus Dolan and Weimann,who was a useful squad member. Potentially eight. You can only put it down to deliberate sabotage either because Eustace and Co did a bit too well last season and it was a bit too close for comfort or purely on cost saving grounds or most likely a bit of both.

Yep, offer something no -one with an ounce of common sense would accept then leak stories blaming it all on the player.

Sorry for mentioning the war, but do we have any explanation yet as to how we've ended up with various versions of the minutes and how the sanitised version were apparently initially agreed with the Club?

I was concentrating on more recent events. I forgot having to sell a generational talent at a knockdown fee (Wharton) to keep the lights on.

Oh great. We aren't Sheffield Wednesday. Yippee. That said, their players showed a lot more heart and spirit against Leicester than we did against West Brom.

If you're saying that..... we must be.

It doesn't "have to" turn at all. It could quite conceivably go from bad to worse.

You have to offer a new deal on at least the same money or the option to extend and kick the can down the road for another 12 months isn't valid I dont think I used to joke with the likes of Dolan that any new contract offer would probably be whatever he was previously on plus a fiver. With this news about Hyam, maybe it wasn't even that! Edit: The bit about Hyam relates to triggering a contract extension sorry. Once those options have expired we probably think it's acceptable to offer players new deals on the same terms as they've always been on as well. Didn't someone post on here once that the turnover of staff at the Club at all levels was so high because Suhail had created a culture at the Club where staff were rarely rewarded with salary increases or promotion and didn't feel valued?

Great post. It's heartbreaking to see numerous longstanding supporters sadly reach this conclusion. In recent years I keep saying that you think you've seen it all but they somehow manage to surpass themselves time and time again. First of all going back a few years the proposed scam about converting part of Brockhall into housing with detailed housing plans and a vague promise of replacement with some new all singing all dancing facility about which there was no detail whatsoever. Then the failure to tie down our better players at the time Lenihan/Rothwell/ Nyambe/ Brereton etc Then the successive January transfer window debacle with high value incoming deals being scuppered at the last minute by alleged administrative errors or "a failure to press send". Outgoing deals meanwhile completely unaffected. On the Mcguire deal Broughton renegotiates a loan with a view on horrendously bad terms we'd never meet after the original permanent deal is pulled. Once that loan deal collapses as well we issue a promise to go back in the following window to rectify the situation and of course that's the last we hear of that. Surely nothing could get more embarrassing than that could it? Buckle up! Two successive head Coaches who have done really well force their way out of the Club the second taking the absolutely unprecedented step of leaving a Club in the play off positions for one in the relegation zone because he felt the long term prospects were better there. Then it seems we're set to lose at least six of that side that did so well last season plus a useful squad member because we won't meet their financial demands. The Head Coach seemingly attempting to throw said outgoing players under the bus shortly after apparently wrongly claiming another coach at the Club was leaving when it was not the case. It's like watching a car crash unfurl in front of you which escalates and causes untold additional collateral damage and there's nothing whatsoever you can do about it. Apologies if on wrong thread.

No. Complete waste of money. no matter how little he is or would be on.

Yeah "no pressure on results" was the phrase wasn't it?