I think you are missing the point here Jim, lots of people who are upset with the club are NOT persistant and/or anti-social standers and would in fact welcome a zero-tolerence policy. The problem is it's curently a selective-tolerance policy depending on where you sit. DMF > Yes I stand if my view is obscured by people in front standing (so thats during action towards the BBE especially corners) and during celebrations and remostrations. I've even been know to stand at away game if the stewards allow and I'm not causing inconvenience to others. I do however object to those that cause inconvenience to others by standing.

Lets break this down. The club is trying to do something about the away fans, but most feel it's not enough. Many don't have a problem with sitting in the BBE, they just feel that the same rules should be enforced at both ends of the ground. Direct Action against the stewards is not an option as this is just likely to lead to arrest and/or removal of ST. Nobody expects the Liverpool fans to sit. The Liverpool game is on TV. A 5pm kick off will lead to an increase in beer consumption which will enevitably lead to more people getting more upset about it. I therefore think young Hughsey has the answer (not something I expected to be typing). Through well timed vocal harmonies (OK, I mean loud chanting) bring it to the entire viewing publics attention that the club are failing to attempt control the away fans. Thus forcing the club to enforce their own rules with everyone, not just the soft targets. OK, so it's not the most militant protest ever formed, but it's legal, not likely to give the club cause to remove your ST, something everyone who feels strongly enough can join it and not against the ground regulations. Turn the attention away from ourselves (i.e. #### on your own fans) which on TV will just seem like us having a big of a squabble with the police and stewards and onto the away fans (thus actually getting the point across).

It would seem that myself, Smurf, JPW and Mushy (along with 3 more, one of which I'm guessing is Councellor Dave) are now booked into the Norwich Sport Hotel. Just when I was resigned to Platform 3 as well (PS. Cheers Mushy).

I think he ment this instead (be warned, it's an MS-Word document not a web page).

AESF

Anyone else want a ban ?

It's full ! We're now trying to find somewhere close to the centre with 4 twins and a double left.

Article now online at http://www.thisislancashire.co.uk/lancashi...rt/ROVERS0.html (warning, link won't work after today).

Glenn you know me and I think I have discussed this with you previously , but this is what irks alot of fans as nothing is ever heard of what is achieved at/from these meetings. Why not - why is it all top secret yet is supposed to be a FANS forum - you know one of those things with the fans for the fans. Even you have had a dig at the club re the club charter so something is either as people saying are saying just falling on 'deaf ears' and the club just doesn't give a hoot about the fans or as usual the club is so slow at dealing with things and useless at letting the fans know about issues important to them. Personally I don't give a damn about what the fans do in the boxes , contributes to the atmosphere in a way IMO , but what I object to is the way our inept stewards deal with situations (Police tend to be ok) and the Club/fan relationship at the moment and our dwindling numbers. An issue maybe for the next top secret meeting (synchronise those watches) is the situation of the dwindling numbers ( if it hasn't been discussed already) and the way football is going against the vocal partisan fan - which is affecting our club more than most so should be taken very very seriously. I've been on record several times disagreeing with the secrecy of the FF, however I agreed to maintain it, so I will until told otherwise. But I do feel it works against the FF some times. However I also feel, that whilst some parts of it may not be conducted the way I'd prefer, that on the whole it is a worthwhile exercise for both the fans and the club.

I find it intresting that lots of people who have never attended a FF meeting think they are just "lip service" to the fans. Now, one thing I don't like (but understand why) about the FF is most of what gets said is off the record and yes, I do believe the club both welcome and take on board our input. If I didn't I sure as hell wouldn't rush from work in Bradford all the way back to Blackburn to nice cup of coffe, a biscuit and a chat every other month. It would be much easier to answer the arguments if I could use actual cases from the FF to illustrate my arguments, but I can't.

Unlikely, because nobody has yet said WHY the fans were ejected for one. Currently the only grounds for any campaign would be for equal treatment of home and away fans seeing as nobody seems willing or able to give details of the cause of Saturdays ejections. This can be merged with the existing thread on the topics

The only way to get people to use a forum like this is keep posting in it. It took ICBINF a while to work too.

We have another. People keep including bloody long unrequired quotes. Stop It. Please.

Whilst I fully agree with the sentiment of your post, I have to question a couple of bits. But how many more would get them if people didn't have to give chapter and verse. I do however believe that the Liverpool game WILL be powder keg. However I'm convinced that for once the ground will be full and every Rovers fan that wants a ticket can get one. If you sat in the Darwen End you'd been the only one and you'd spend 90 mins looking as some scousers arse Assuming you attended every home game and are talking about the same seat, can you explain HOW you came to this figure ? With only one seriously reduced price home game last season I simply can't see how this was the case (it's simply not possibly with just the reward card). The only way I know this may be possible was some stupid fool in the TO giving the completed reward cards back to customers who then claimed free tickets EVERY week and people buying the £15 CIS outer tickets and moving seats. So, you'll be leaving your Man City Away tickets until they go on open sale then ? I have a feeling this isn't down to JW (although he obviously has the power to stop it, as has to quickly), it seems Mr Newsome is the driving force behind this new zero tolerence policy.

Turning a slightly more serious slant on this thread. If people are going to use chanting to bring the publics attention to the plight of the BBE then a constant "We can see you standing up" aimed at the away fans is probably called for. At least that would bring the matter to the attention of the entire ground and the press.

Too Right

This is an alegation (which may well be unfounded, it's certainly not one this site is putting forward) that I have heard from several different sources.

Good post Morph, but sadly the majority of people who are willing to have a good rant on here are too damned lazy and apathetic to actually get off their asses and do something (other than fire off the odd email). If people ARE willing to get involved with this, then a few points need answering. Did ayone on here see a steward or police officer assault a fan (by pushing him down the stair or otherwise) ? Could you acurately describe the steward/polic officer ? Could it be realistically be argued the fan fell ? Does anyone know the fan who was ejected ? Can anyone give any details of themselves being physically or verbally abused by any member of Rovers staff or Police Officer during the ejections ? Could anyone describe exactly what the Boro fans in the box did that offended the fans in the BBE so much ? So far, without answers to the above questions, all I can see that we have any argument with the club over is the need for a "Same Rules For Everyone" policy regarding both home and away fans being seated.

Another great contibution by Colin Old Trafford (sigh) The Theatre Of Dreams. The home of "The World's Greatest Football Club." The home of "THAT night in Barcelona" - "Clive Tydsley" The lovely RFW. To be honest, it's a bit of an insult to the great club that yahoos such as ourselves should be informed about "an away guide." Let's face it, if the thousands of curtain-rod salesmen from Essex can get there every couple of weeks then it should be a doddle for a 30 mile trip from Blackburn. Nevertheless, let's press on. Old Trafford football ground is fairly easy to find. It's located close to Old Trafford Cricket Ground, the home of Lancashire Cricket Club. It's not actually located in the city of Manchester, but just across the border in Trafford Metropolitan Borough Council. For some reason this seems to irritate the few Mancunians who follow them, so best not to mention it. No need to cause friction eh? The ground is located about three miles west of the centre of Manchester and is actually just inside inside Trafford Park which was/is the largest industrial estate in Europe. Before it was turned over to produce aeroplanes, cars, pig iron, washing machines and other stuff it used to be Pomona Gardens and was where the Victorian gentry used to take the air. The Duke Of Bridgewater partially scuppered that rural haven by building the Bridgewater Canal in the mid 1700s to take coal from Worsley to the centre of Manchester and triggered the industrial revolution. About a hundred years ago the Manchester ship canal was built and that really messed up the rural idyll. It also buggered up Liverpool's monopoly as a port of the trans-Atlantic trade. How To Get There By Metrolink Manchester's very own tram system runs from the city centre, & from Victoria and Piccadilly rail stations from the east and from Eccles and Altrincham from the west to very close to the football ground. You buy your ticket at the machines before you get on the tram. Remember to keep a few quid in change ready. Here is a map. metrolink map A word of warning. On match days the Metro gets very busy on the way to the ground. On the way out of the ground after the match it can be frightening due to the number of people cramming onto the trams. If you have kids or get a bit claustrophobic, either wait a while or walk. (If you decide to wait you might like to visit the Manchester United museum, the highlight being a continuous replay of Ludo Miklosko making save after save at Upton Park in May 1995. It's followed by an exclusive three hour presentation of RFW making excuses about the shirts, the pitch, the referee, the weather, the players being tired, the twenty minutes of injury time not being enough, the dawning of the age of Aquarious, not having enough money, the leaves on the line, ley lines at Old Trafford not being on the cusp, Giggs being Welsh & therefore too injured to play for Wales, Gog Magog, and the secret plan to put senna-pod in his chewing gum.) A Baldrick-type "cunning plan" is to get the tram from either Altrincham or Eccles and travel from the west. It'll be less crowded. Plus, if we get the Altrincham line we can all go round to Scotty's house and drink all his beer. (If his Mum has given him permission and he has tidied up his bedroom) By Train It's a bit like getting to City really, so go and read that one. If you are coming from the North then you have the option of changing at either Bolton or Salford Crescent and then getting off at Manchester Deansgate, which will drop you off a few hundred metres closer to Old Trafford By Coach Again, the same as for City. The coaches terminate at Chorlton Street Coach Station. From there it is a short walk to Piccadilly Gardens to get either a bus or the Metrolink to Old Trafford. Or walk. By Car As the stadium is located in this enourmous industrial estate a lot of the businesses have realised that there is money to be made from opening up their premises to match day parking. There's a lot of space available, for a few quid per car. Don't forget that the demand is quite high, so the closer to the ground you get the more popular the car park. Disabled Now here's a turn up for the books. A football club that has it's own web site for disable supporters. An enormous round of applause for Manchester United Disabled Supporters Association and for the contact there who guided me to the web site. It seems to be really friendly. Local Bus info for EUFA champions league final 2003 should be still up to date EUFA cup final details With 60,000 people heading towards the place you should be able to locate a bus to take you there and back. If not you're probably too drunk to appreciate the game. By Canal Done that one. Adopted Scouser can kayak up the Manchester Ship canal. Up the Mersey to Eastham lock then off you go eastwards. You'll be back in Wallasey before your Missus has your supper on the table. If you are walking from Manchester you can take the towpath of the Bridgewater canal from Castlefield to OT. Probably a bit more pleasant than trekking along the roads. A Small Shandy Before The Match As mentioned by Glenn on the Man City awayguide, a lot of Rovers' fans tend to go to "The Moon Under Water." This seems to be the best place for a swift half. It's a big place (it used to be a cinema,) serves half decent ale, http://www.beerintheevening.com/pubs/show....Water/Deansgate

I can just imagine conversations with the ticket office. Fan: Two Tickets for the Liverpool game please. TO: They are only available to people who have a history of buying tickets, what's your address. Fan: 1a Livsey Branch Road TO: No problem, Blackburn End, CIS or Jack Walker. Fan: Darwen End. TO: Sorry Sir, Darwen End is reserved for Liverpool fans. Fan: I'm aware of that, but I'd like to stand up for this game.

Going back to Modi's point about the importance of writing to the club rather than emailing them. Try to include reference to the following passage from Rovers customer charter. However, I have sent dozens of emails to people at the club and the ONLY people that have ever replied are Lynsey Talbot (On behalf of JW and Lyndsey has responded to every email, promptly and efficiently) and Lee. Only Barbara McGee has failed to answer a written letter (and failed to return phone calls and forward requested information). So go on, write now, right now ! PS It was intresting just how many sections of the Charter the club has managed to break in the last few years

A quick check of www.footballgroundguide.co.uk (the only guide worth a damn now awayguide.net is gone ) confirms that away fans are now give a section of the now roofed and seated Putney End. Cheers BRFC4EVA.

He's is an excellent bit on Fulham at the wikipedia - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fulham_F.C. and a little bit on Craven Cottage itself - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Craven_Cottage

Has it ? I didn't think the planned work went ahead. Ah well, you live and learn. Please disregard the above info then ! I like this new colaberative format, it means I can get things wrong and everyone else can put them right

To me a bad away ground is more than bricks and mortar. I quite like the open terrace at Stockport, but hate the one a Fulham and whilst Blundell Park is undoubtedly a shed it's a great place to watch a football game (and eat your fish and chips, and despite what The Guardian implies Cleethorpes is a pretty good pub crawl ) and the afternoon we spent in the sunshine at Gillingham for our last game in Div 1 was fantastic (although I imagine a wet wednesday night in January may be a different story).