I dont doubt that he is not above scrutiny and he deserved criticism for his performance on Wednesday night. There have been plenty of praise for lesser threats such as Brereton and rightly so but had we not got a striker as good as anyone in the division on our hands, then the likes of Brereton, Gallagher etc chipping in with 2 and 3 would be attracting criticism, as it is as long as Armstrong keeps scoring such supporting roles are manageable. When we took Armstrong out v Boro we lookee toothless. We have been blessed with some top level Championship attackers in some otherwise shite teams in the last 10 years and sometimes I think they can be underappreciated. The likes of Dack and Rhodes have also had criticism in the past at times when they were the primary source of goals. When you have a forward scoring at a rate of a goal every other game or indeed with Armstrong almost 1 a game it is easy to take it for granted. The reason that goalscorers always score is because they know where to be. You never hear people saying that we dont create enough for Armstrong, for Dack, back in a poor team for Rhodes because they know where the ball will fall, where to move, how to sniff out chances. When a non goalscorer starts there, take Gallagher last season you hear regular questioning of the supply which may carry some weight but ultimately the main difference is that lesser forwards dont sniff out chances in the same way. I dont mean create chances for themselves by beating a couple of players or belting one in from 25 yards.

He is the focal point but it is very naive to think that someone especially realistic to us could come in and score at an equal or even better rate. As I mentioned it is not as simple as having chances created for him, he aids that by anticipating chances via his movement. He is the top scorer in the league which is very impressive and we would be half the attacking force without him.

Our stats with and without Lenihan do a story, although for 2 years he has been the only defender we have had who leads and heads stuff away regularly, maybe Ayala can be a second. Williams is not a defender I think youd want in the trenches with you.

I totally disagree that the team is doing more for him than he is as a team. He anticipates chances like any goalscorer as much as we create for him, it isnt as simple as replacing the striker and said striker getting an equal number of chances. It isnt only 25 yard screamers where a striker has made his own goal, his movement makes goals. His goal record in 2020 is brilliant. You never hear people saying that a team isnt creating chances for a goalscorer because he will find chances regardless.

30m seems pie in the sky and I cant see any team paying that when he only has 1 year on his contract after this. However it will be nigh on impossible to replace the goal output that he provides, it will not be as easy as another striker coming in and picking up where he left off. Goalscorers create chances themselves with their movement.

My umbridge is with the assumption that things will just click in regards to results (ultimately results are what is matter) and if we carry on in the same vein surely that will mean continuing to lose to the better sides, beating the lower sides and never developing the consistency to get into never mind stay in the top 6. Im not having that the play offs would represent an achievement against all the odds or feeding the inferiority complex, Brentford continiously sell players at a profit for a start and I suspect havent spent close to the net outlay that we have. Top 6 is the target as repeatedly and publically stated by the manager and play offs, it would be a very good achievement if we can pull it off but not against all odds as some sort of miracle. Below the top 3 relegated sides none of the other sides above us or around us warrant the David and Goliath narrative. Its just totally unnecessary to put anyone who is less trusting that carrying as we are will suddenly lead to top 6 level results as not knowing anything about football. I take on board that there are aspects to our play to be excited about compared to previous years and I share those but until results bear them out to at least strongly suggest that we can hit our target then they are superficial, aesthetic and minor ones. There is reason for hope but not to the point of mere assumption that carrying on as we are will make us serious play off contenders. And its not a lack of understanding of the game to doubt that.

I think most understand the game enough to understand a league table. Style of play is subjective and for some of that "brilliant" play in yesterdays first half (much of it was backwards and sideways) it created little in the way of meaningful chances. Until that place is the top 6 as targetted then the questions will always be there and valid. Its not as if we are flying and people are refusing to credit the manager because they previously wanted him out. Crap budget is untrue but a whole new argument, the target is top 6 and we keep falling short. If we ever break into it and people still criticise and moan then you have a point. The "dont know football" and "dont understand the game" rhetoric is Paul Mani's favourite and is patronising in place of anything more constructive.

One of the main problems would be that outside of those 3 injury prone CBs, Nyambe and Douglas, we have no cover so we would likely not be able to play it for long.

We shouldnt be viewing these tough away games with such an inferiority complex if we genuinely think we are aiming to be a top 6 side. The last sentence is something that can be argued depending on expectation. The target is top 6 and we are 5 points away, therefore is that ok? Certainly not to the point where people cannot argue otherwise. Its this continious notion that we are x points away (often accompanied with excuses y and z) as it that is about to change any time soon. I dont get why anyone expects not to see moaning and frustration when we lose a game. Especially when it is another chance spurned to break into the top 6 and another failure to overcome anyone half decent.

I totally agreed that he was incredibly poor, no doubting that.

I dont necessarily think it is a psychological barrier, I am just not sure that between the manager and the players that we have enough to ever become genuine contenders for the play offs unless something changes. Its not imaginary, its just a way of basically saying that we never take that step and get into the top 6, our highest peak is "one result away." Holtby and Rothwell perhaps sum us up more than anyone. On their day a match for most midfielders in the division, but their day is not nearly often enough. We often seem competitive against bigger teams yet always end up on the wrong side of the result. A point comes when luck isnt the deciding factor for that.

Ayala was an exciting signing but I dont think he has "been good," he has been mainly injured, and looked really rusty up until an impressive backs to the wall display at Brentford and then he was solid yesterday but not great for the all important goal. Mulgrew is not a suitable benchmark for the standard of a Championship defender. Trybull has again been disappointing. Kaminski undoubtedly a very shrewd addition.

Of course, he played crap last night and I agree with that. He wasnt solely to blame for defeat but he fell well, well below the brilliant standards he has set. He is on 14 goals, our second highest is 3 so he is critical to our chances. The problem with the glass ceiling is that we NEVER break through it, ever. We always fall short, fine margins are mentioned but sadly I cannot see any logic in expecting us suddenly to fall on the right side of those fine margins. It is always ifs and buts, reasons and excuses, and forlorn hopes that we are on the cusp of a run long enough to break into the top 6. The performing v big teams and not v smaller ones was a bit of a myth. For the last 2 seasons up we rarely beat the big teams, we did have a couple of noticeable and embarrassing losses v relegation fodder but we tended to pick up much of our points v mid table/lower mid table teams.

To be fair, that pedigree for Douglas is made up of a spell at Wolves 4 years ago when he played as a wing back, so in a different position. For Leeds he rarely played so he wasnt a regular left back for either promotion winning side, and is now 31 having spent much of his recent career injured, so there are certainly question marks. That being said, Bell is proven to be well short so there isnt much alternative.

Its incredibly unfair to blame Armstrong solely for the defeat. He played poorly but he is the top scorer in the league, he has more credit in the bank considering how prolific he has been this season and in 2020. Its not a reaction to a solitary loss, its the reaction to a loss that is very much a further example of 2 massive problems that we have, we cannot seem to get results v the better teams, and we can never seem to break through that glass ceiling and get into the top 6. Its not a particularly good sign that we have scored the most goals yet are only 10th. Not the hallmarks of an efficient side. 3 or 4 nil? I dont really remember any chances where I was shocked that we didnt score, most of our chances were speculative at best.

Neither is the answer. Douglas the lesser of two evils and maybe Bell's stock is going up without him playing. When he does again people may remember his incompetence.

Far more settled team? They have their first choice 2 CMS, their main 2 CBs, their main attacking midfielder and both full backs out. Could have would have should have. We didnt, again when a top 6 place was available and v a decent side. If you come onto the forum after that happens surely you expect frustration? Big if that we beat Norwich but even so, it would be an average week. We need to stop viewing games v teams around us with an inferiority complex. Thats how it goes all the time if we either can get into the top 6 or play a decent side. If it was once or twice then maybe.

A case of de ja vu, a predictable and inevitable defeat when we can get into the top 6 and v a top half side. I dont even think it is us "bottling it" we just dont have the consistent ability to pick up points at a top 6 level. I dont see how anyones minds can focus on the positives when the blow is repeated again and again. It goes against logic to expect anything to change. We keep "unluckily" being edged out by the better teams. When it keeps happening you start to suspect it isnt coincedence. For all the talk about deserving to lose or not deserving, we didnt create much in the way of serious chances and theres not many if any chances where I think we were really unlucky, most of the chances were speculative at best. The subs were totally bizarre at the end, taking off Gallagher when we started to go more direct. Felt like he felt obliged to make them.

Presumably given the players they have remaining then. They have Da Silva, Baker, Mawson and Sessegnon all out at the back, Williams and Walsh are key midfielders out, Weimann is out and Paterson (their best attacking midfielder) is out.

Decent team, hopefully Armstrong is central and Elliott right and he doesnt try to overcomplicate it with false 9 nonsense.

https://www.rovers.co.uk/teams/first-team/midfielder/joe-rothwell2/ I didnt realise and unsure if it has been mentioned but on Rothwell we do have the option of an extra year. I dont think that he will have loads of interest from vultures circling anyway but I suppose there is a bit less comparative urgency with him compared to Nyambe and Holtby.

The thing with Bowyers' squad is probably due to a mixture of financial restrictions (especially compared to Mowbray) some bizarre signings and some strange loyalty to poor players he inherited was very much either really good or dreadful. Rhodes and Gestede were the best strikeforce in the League undoubtedly and in Conway and Marshall when both were fit we had 2 really effective wingers. Hanley and Duffy grew into an effective partnership at CB too. But we had some totally incompetent players in the starting 11, he couldnt look past Lowe and Williamson in the centre of midfield which meant that we probably had a bottom 3 standard central midfield. At full back we often had Spurr who was at best ok, and RB was a bit of a problem position, Baptiste was out of position and uncomfortable there and Henley/Kane werent up to it, and then in goal, Bowyer had Robinson post blood clot when he could barely move, and then had some real trouble replacing him with Kean, Eastwood and Steele all below par. So I think even in our best side whilst having maybe 5 or 6 players right at the top end of the league in terms of quality, there were at least 3 who were probably not up to the standard of the Championship full stop. Of course you need more than 11 which is when a further problem arose, we had the likes of Chris Taylor, Varney, Chris Brown etc who were all miles short of Championship standard. He definitely did underachieve though with the squad he built.

Im not convinced that Bowyer had an advantage in regards to wages to be honest, I dont recall many high earners signing under him and indeed we had quite a few high earners with big egos dented his chances of a clean rebuild. Mowbray has been able to sign Gallagher, Holtby, Johnson, Ayala etc, all senior players who will be on very competitive wages im sure. I think the main advantage that Mowbray has in regards to judging over Bowyer (aside from the promotion although a direct comparison is impossible as Bowyer kept us up initially) is that whilst both hit a glass ceiling, we saw Bowyer then stagnate away from that, although he was under the difficulties of an embargo and a mass sale. Mowbray has an asterix next to his name because we dont know what will come next, and whether we will achieve a top 6 placing before any potential stagnation.

Bowyer inherited Rhodes and a couple of decent defenders but he signed Gestede for a nominal fee which was akin to Mowbray signing Dack/Armstrong. Rothwell for me has yet to fully announce himself with end product to be a signing to warrant loads of praise, the likes of Conway, Cairney and Marshall were far more productive. I do wonder how much is psychological and how much is down to quality both on behalf of the players and managers to never be able to consistently get the points required to push into the top 6. Hopefully whatever it is, it is a glass ceiling that will soon smash. Would agree that even though you are reliant on luck and circumstance to an extent in what you inherit (the youth teams in Bowyers era where not as healthy as they are now) you do have to nurture the youngsters and Mowbray has done that. Lenihan had already established himself by then but is still very important, Nyambe has definitely progressed although you could question his non selection at times and also his contractual situation, Raya is a big question mark considering how he was sold for cheap but he was given a couple of seasons as number 1 and neither Rankin Costello nor Buckley have yet done enough to establish themselves. They are all plusses but the main one that you can not question is Travis who suddenly became absolutely key. In thr Venkys era aside from Big Sam of course they are the only 2 managers with any credibility for sure. Between Kean, Coyle, Berg, Appleton and Lambert there isnt a good manager between them. Armstrong and Dack were fantastic signings but Mowbray has had loads more money to spend compared to Bowyer. As mentioned Bowyer also signed a 20 goal a season striker for a minimal fee in Gestede, and whilst he did inherit Rhodes but he was very much the exception in a squad full of ageing/no mark and useless rubbish, many of whom were on big contracts and with seemingly poisonous. So whilst Mowbray didnt inherit a great striker like Rhodes, the overall squad was leaner, it wasnt saddled with egotistical high earning liabilities and was easier to inherit. That is my main point really. Bowyer took us to 8th/9th (Mowbrays limit so far himself) and then with an embargo things began to somewhat understandably unravel and it became clear that he had missed his chance.

I would rate Mowbray above Bowyer but in regards to what they inherited, you are doing Bowyer a disservice. He inherited a squad full of ageing players with no use and quite a few big egos on big contracts who it took a while for us to shift and pay off, Best, Murphy, Etuhu etc. Ultimately Mowbray's task was slightly more difficult (the draw at Burton took us 2 points from 21st with 14 games to go, so rhetoric about his points per game aside, it was not mission impossible and ultimately he failed) but much of the deadwood he inherited was about to go out of contract (Greer, Brown, Lowe, Guthrie) and he didnt have any bad influences in the way that Bowyer did. Mowbray then with not much in the way of useless shite still knocking around causing unrest/draining the finances, then successfully managed to get us back up again and deserved kudos for that. He has in more time still failed as of yet to get past that glass ceiling that Bowyer seldom managed to display any sign of being genuine top 6 contenders. Mowbray had a much cleaner slate to work from in regards to the playing squad, as well as the bonus of a clutch of younger talented players.