Again I am not really comfortable with changing the team too much to try and counter the opposition or indeed the stereotype of an opposition or making individual selections, but I think that Johnson and Gallagher may come in more based on their individual performances, Trybull has possibly not done enough to guarantee a start over the previously impressive Johnson upon his return whilst Elliott has been quieter recently although even when he is quiet he seems to regularly make a very good pass a game (Dolans goal v Preston and Armstrong v Barnsley) in the build up to a goal. But Gallagher is deserving of a start I would suggest. Wharton may be very unlucky as his 4 starts were very good, but you would imagine that Ayala will be in the team for good (until his next injury) if he regains his place tomorrow, rather than keeping Wharton's place warm. We have had a situation at centre back whereby a selection headache seems to always be avoided, one centre back gets injured whilst another returns, usually between Ayala, Lenihan and Williams before Wharton had a chance to prove that he was a fourth competent option there. Bell being selected is not ideal, but the cost of Douglas worsening his injury and having Bell in the side for a run of games would be worse.

The flex thing has been done to death, its all speculation, we dont know for sure what Brereton's wages are. The key though is that the only alternative is not a 3.5m high earning 28/29 year old. Leon Best was a particularly horrendous way to spend money, he would have been a crap signing had he been a freebie on a modest wage. I would like to think that our standards are above displaying more value for money than Leon Best. His appearances were never within a run of starts mainly because in those cameos he didnt do anything to suggest that he warranted a prolonged run in the team, and even then, Mowbray received plenty of criticism for how he was being used. He may have been written off as a current day judgement back when he had shown nothing by that point, compounded by other flaws in the team not being rectified, but ultimately being "written off" doesnt mean anything because now that he has suddenly come to the party, this thread is absolutely full of praise and optimism from even his most staunch critics from his first 2 seasons. All that refraining from committing to an opinion in 2 years (which is a decent portion of time) does is allow you not to be proved wrong.

So as far as you are concerned, should a player thread not be opened until a player hits x number of starts? People will judge a player on an ongoing basis, you mention the usage of him but that was a regular criticism of the manager rather than the player himself. The financial side is all guestimates but using Leon Best as a benchmark is hardly productive!

The initial theory was that Brereton wasnt a Mowbray signing if I recall. But even if on "inside direct lines" we take on board the theory that Mowbray had a seperate kitty for a young English striker with value, Brereton even within that remit demonstrated no hope for 2 years that he was even a successful signing amidst those restrictions. Even now, making a profit on 7m would require a lot more from him, but for those years those theoretical requirements still didnt justify why Brereton had been chosen. Its a messageboard to give opinions and it was very fair to question the money spent prior without feeling the need to refrain in case he turns it all around, otherwise this thread may aswell have ceased to exist. Not sure there is scope for any "I told you so" either. People judged on what they saw, individually there wasnt really any flickers never mind signs that he could come good, and the defence was leaking goals when people felt that we could have spent the money or at least some of the money there instead. If the above theory is accurate for which there is no proof, then that would be a poor reflection of the owners and the way the club rather than the manager. I dont think anything in his first 2 seasons suggested even getting to performances anything like of which we have seen this season, whereby his improvement has been an unexpected positive hence why this thread has recently been littered with us all praising him and rightly so. Lets hope he continues to improve and people can focus on the player rather than looking back and picking out critics throughout the last 2 years.

One thing that I will say as well is that whether its positive or negative, praise or criticism, once we get to the point where especially on a messageboard but even down the pub or even in the ground with our friends/family we cant give our opinions without sanitising them first (no negative opinions allowed) then surely we give up with the game as a whole? If a Rovers player plays well, we get excited, if a Rovers player doesnt play well, we get frustrated. Natural. No one is condoning a minority of dickheads that you will get everywhere shouting abuse but I can honestly say that I have never at numerous away games and every home game heard anything of this nature, clearly I am not the only one, not saying it doesnt happen but it cant be that widespread. This thread is full of criticism is because, both as a purchase financially and also moreso as an individual player, for 2 years his performances were terrible, not expecting the end product is one thing but there was barely a glimmer of optimism and indeed even his application was questionable at times. This became a place to moan and groan and vent, and a much more constructive one. Now his performances have massively improved, this is a place full of praise and full of optimism. Criticising a player on a messageboard is NOT abuse.

Totally agree that unavailability can often lead to a downturn in results too. Indeed Norwich's injury list was so bad that they had one senior player on the bench, a young midfielder at left back, a midfielder up front etc and in normal circumstances a draw at home to Coventry would be a major frustration. Watfords manager said that he was purposely playing a specific and more pragmatic way I think at the time when he didnt really have an out and out striker so it affects even the bigger squads and is widespread across the league. However I sense that judging our side when everyone is fit or indeed for any Championship side may be a scenario that doesnt unfold this season.

Any talk of relegation is undoubtedly illogical and seemingly from a minority, no disagreements here on that! Warnock certainly hasnt had a clean bill of health himself at Boro although of course he hasnt had the resources and the time to build a squad as Mowbray has done here. I think there were 2 games in which the unavailability list was especially troublesome. Forest at home although half of the absentees were players not registered in time or considered to be signed in time by the manager, and the 11 we named was very competitive, and that Boro game on Sky especially with Kaminski and Armstrong being the 2 particularly notable absentees, although the replacements where Pears who he paid a fee for this summer and 12m worth of firepower up top. As ive said, our absentee list over the season is perhaps above average but I just think it is important to appreciate that others have had numerous absentees and at times have left them with no senior options in certain positions, something we seem to have avoided in the main. Lets hope that over time others are affected more than us and our key players stay fit for the most part though. I am wary of falling into a "judge us when we have our best team available" mentality as quite simply I do not see any teams having a full clean bill of health for anything other than a fleeting moment this season, with covid drop outs and the massively increased intensity of the fixture list. When Dack and Travis are back, a couple of others will likely be out by then.

I have never doubted that we have probably suffered more than most with injuries, and like the manager and everyone else it is a big source of frustration for me, of course. It is not me just saying that it shouldnt affect us at all or indeed that we should ignore it, of course not. Its just that we have also been in a similar league position that we have flickered between for 18 months now, hovering from anywhere between one win away from the top 6 and mid table mediocrity, so I struggle to lump all/too much of the blame on the idea that injuries are costing us from being in the top 6. I feel that such a theory is lacking any real justification. Its a big question mark. I would concede that there was one or two games in which the number of injuries was particularly and abnormally serious, I think it was the Forest game in which we had to put Brennan on the bench to make the numbers up. But it is also important to realise that we are not the anomaly in the league, quite a few teams have suffered mass unavailability, I think as much from the increased quantity of matches in a short space of time. There are also a couple of caveats for me. The likes of Ayala and Douglas were signed (and Evans renewed) by Mowbray knowing that both players have suffered from injury problems in the past. Obviously I am not implying that we shouldnt have signed them but how much can you put it down to misfortune? I also think we would have been in a much worse situation had the injuries been focused in specific areas, it may be partly down to the benefit of Mowbray having the time and comparative resources to build a deeper squad on paper than many but you look at Norwich having to play a midfielder up front and solely kids on the bench, Preston had all 4 full backs out on Saturday and had to totally change shape to try and fail to cover that fact, thankfully we havent had as much of a specific area that has been totally ravaged. But yeah, I do of course sympathise with the injuries we have suffered, I just am keen to also add to the context of others suffering in similar or at times even worse ways and also I am unsure how much we can put not being in the top 6 down to unavailability.

The injuries will keep coming I am sure, they will to all teams, of course we need to manage and use the squad as best we can but we need to make sure that we dont use them as excuses.

They are only one point below us so if anyone considers them to be dire then they cant think much of us either.

Evans playing led to a very high win percentage last season. Unfortunately when he was played this season, he was used in a way that totally focused on the limitations in his game. He is also a player that Mowbray gave an extended contract to. As of yet we have yet to prove that we are a genuine top 6 side or indeed anything other than an outsider. There is more promise though but until we fully emerge from mid table and break into the top 6, said promise will be unfulfilled.

Has Kevin Phillips worked with Nigel Pearson before or is it just a token "legend" appointment?

I thing you are downplaying the injuries that Norwich have had. Yesterday they had Pukki, Hugill and Idah all injured in the same position so had to play a midfielder up front. They were missing Buendia, Cantwell and Dowell all from attacking midfield and were also missing a couple of full backs so had to play a young midfielder at left back which has been the case for a few games. Their bench was one senior centre back and then just kids. Other teams have also been badly affected and again in specific areas. Preston are currently without all 4 senior full backs as well as Browne who sometimes plays at right back in an emergency, and have also had Pearson, Davies and Johnson out in recent weeks. Watford have had Capoue, Gray, Hughes, Deeney, Dele-Bashiru, Perica etc out at the start, they beat Boro on the opening day with 11 players out, some of whom have recently returned. Bristol City signed Mawson and Sessegnon in defence who have all been injured as well as Joe Williams and Liam Walsh in midfield and Andi Weimann. Stoke have had a bit of a goalkeeping injury crisis lately having to recall a kid from a loan spell with Gunn and Davies both injured. The culmination of our injuries came v Forest when we had to put one kid in Brennan on the bench. Many of our players are injury prone anyway (Ayala, Williams, Evans, Douglas etc) so it is a little illogical to claim to be hard done by when those individuals succumb to further injury. But the side we put out that day was full of experience, the injuries werent really pooled in one specific area and 4 of the absentees where new signings that were either ineligible or simply not selected which is not something that we were hard done by. The main issue for me is I dont think it is fair to imply that injuries and covid are the main reason that we arent in the top 6 because we dont have any evidence of being there prior. Injuries across the board are naturally more common this season.

I do think on the injury front that the main 2 reasons are the fact that we have many injury prone players and obviously fixture congestion and the pandemic. Other teams are really suffering too (see Norwich today who had half a bench and all kids) which is why I am reluctant to put too much stock in the narrative that injuries are a major excuse. I think they are normal at the moment across the board.

Its guesswork (unless Mowbray has publically stated as such which i have missed) to suggest that we had a special and seperate "development" transfer kitty and even if we did, for the first 2 years there were no signs that the development money had been correctly spent.

Echo everyone elses analysis that the performance was poor but it is all about 3 points at the end of the day. Kaminski's save was absolutely brilliant, he is a very good goalkeeper. Some of his kicking was slightly under his usual standards and had a bit of a heart in mouth moment trying to claim a corner near the end but I feel safe with him in net and hope he can keep these standards up as he is a huge upgrade. Nyambe was really good at right back, miles better than Rankin Costello and highlights the avoidable contract situation which could cost us a very promising right back. We need DOuglas back ASAP, Bell is so poor technically and tends to need 3 or 4 touches when anyone else needs 1 or 2 and it slows us down, his clearances and touches are usually loose and cause us further problems. The 2 centre backs again impressed, Lenihan is back to his usual self and playing well and Wharton again was really impressive, Carter admittedly in a difficult situation looked really shaky and it just shows how much them loan spells have pushed Wharton on to another level. Trybull im not convinced by and I thought Johnson coming on improved us, Rothwell anonymous, Holtby is a very technically good player but he doesnt control enough games for me. Elliott I thought was pretty poor today too, as was Brereton really, quiet compared to recent standards. Gallagher finished off a very impressive personal week with a very good goal, Armstrong seemed quite moody but he scores goals at a brilliant rate and you just cant argue with it.

I would but I think he will speed past me like he keeps doing to defenders at the moment.

My post was downplaying the correlation between empty stadiums and his improvement, that comment you highlighted is out of context. Although as I am sure you are aware, even if I did genuinely mean that he used to play like "an incompetent clown" on an internet messageboard, that is not abuse nor would it affect him in a stadium.

Its a bit of a double edged sword, obviously I share everyone's doubts about him as a manager but he is a liability on the pitch at the moment too, so they may suffer either way.

Mowbray did specifically say after PNE that “On my board we’ve got 11 fixtures between now and the new year and players like 17-year-old Harvey Elliott can’t be playing all of them." I dont think there would be any realistic expectation for Elliott to play every single game, and having got a knock I hardly expect that Liverpool would be in any way annoyed should he not start tomorrow, I think obviously its a different matter should he have ever been regularly out of the team and we would have been financially penalised should that have happened. No doubts from me that Elliott is a better player than Gallagher but I think the latter could feel hard done by should he be dropped tomorrow. No need to make any changes to the starting line up.

Im not sure that it tends to work out too often when clubs try to mould Sporting Directors and Head Coach partmerships to try and cover all bases in terms of experience and new ideas.

If his improvement is largely down to the lack of crowd, surely as soon as they return he will go back to what he was as soon as we return? That could be a worry in that case, being good in an empty stadium looking longer term is a fairly worthless trait! Its impossible to allocate how much if any of the improvement is down to that though, I look at a physical change in him looking far stronger, I consider the change in style that we have adopted and the positional change of him being left of a 3, and also much better application and desire, maybe he has realised that he needs to do more. He also changed the game in the Swansea home game just before the lockdown so maybe the lack of crowds and his upturn have minimal correlation and indeed he would have improved regardless? I certainly think it is too soon to be saying things like we will struggle to keep him in the summer. He has that 7m price tag on him still which will probably mean that we wont consider anything under that and there is no way that anyone will bid that sort of money for him at this time or indeed unless his contribution improves further still. With Armstrong, his departure may be inevitable if we dont go up simply because of the sheer number of goals, if Brereton chips in as he has started to do, then im not sure that he will necessarily become impossible to keep.

What tackle has cost us? The injury was fairly innocuous and it is unfair to attach any blame to Morsy. Mowbray said this about him today: "Bradley Dack is probably a week or so away now. He was telling me today next weekend, which is good," he added. "Like any player coming back from a long-term injury, they have little setbacks along the way. It's not the smooth journey back that he wants but he's out there running round and kicking balls again today. He's happy and we have to accept sometimes the route back to first-team football isn't always smooth. "He had an awareness in his hamstring last week but he was back out there kicking balls today and he's a week away."

I would like Holtby to sign on for an extra year or two but I do worry that a potential want to move back to Germany coupled with the owners disinterest making Mowbray struggle to be able to get contracts over the line based on his recent quotes may make this his last season at the club. I doubt that pay as you play contracts exist, why would anyone in their right mind accept a contract in which a spell out of the team would lead to no income?

I really struggle with this theory that Brereton has suddenly turned his performance level around because there are no fans. As others have touched on, Brereton has not been unfairly abused by the fans, in fact we have been very patient with him. No need for our own fans to make us out as a raging mob. Also, if the difference is down to playing behind closed doors then the improvement is worthless if as soon as crowds return, he will return to being an incompetent clown! That theory does him a disservice anyway. His application and effort have gone up lots, the change in style and formation seems to suit him and have found a role for him and he looks like he has bulked up. All more constructive explanations as to the changes in his game.