Where has the assumption come from that the player has been waiting all this time for a better offer? Mowbray said that he wasnt a priority and a deal he might return to if there was remaining money. To make this out to be a greedy player settling for what he can get is totally unfair and unprovoked.

I would say so yeah. Hes a better left back than Bell so he leapfrogs him. Hes a better midfielder than Buckley, Davenport, Evans, I would say Rothwell, im not convinced that even Holtby is more effective than him. Obviously the key is that a fully fit squad is a luxury that teams cannot expect this season. Making the timing of this deal baffling considering our recent run of form with inferior midfielders playing.

He was superb last year, technically our best player for sure, created miles more in the way of chances, good delivery guaranteed and would have started the last 6 or 7 games had he been here and been a notable improvement. The only thing awful about the signing is the timing of it.

Fair play for sticking to your guns. Regarding Downing being unwilling to commit, that is a total assumption. Mowbray said that he wasnt a priority and that he would come back to the deal if there was any money left. As it is, points have been lost in the meantime. I think that had it been done before the season, it would have been a very shrewd addition, he created chances like nobody else did last season and is probably our best technical player. Very well timed? Surely very well timed would have been before this terrible run in which Buckley and Evans have toiled in there?

Its a conundrum if Armstrong misses out but Gallagher has to play centrally for me, Brereton isnt a centre forward, that is for sure. He has absolutely no goalscoring instinct, he is always on his heels in the box never anticipating anything (Gallagher is hardly Gary Lineker but he will score a few goals at least and can win headers) and his attributes suit the wide role he now plays in. As much as I appreciate the want in an ideal world to drop Lenihan (although for me Williams is getting away free of warranted criticism) the risk outweighs the reward until Ayala returns, Magloire didnt look like he could head a ball last time he was in the team and a minimal spell in League 1 doesnt change that really.

@chaddyrovers are you against this signing?

Makes absolutely no sense whatsoever, not to sign him because hes a good player, but to sign him now. We have just had a run of games in which Buckley has played and looked lost and a few in which Evans has played a totally unfamiliar position. Why the hell has the deal only been done now?

McCarthy falls into a category of old school manager with proven track record who doesnt entertain the idea of passing it along the backline, thus his popularity has waned with teams more interested in winning the possession battle than the match it seems.

Andy Cole missed loads of scoreable chances, still he was one of the top scorers in the league every season. A poor striker lacks the anticipation to get into goalscoring positions. Surely you can see how illogical it would be to drop the top scorer in the league for not scoring enough.

Im not saying that Armstrong cant be more clinical but a poor striker is one who doesnt even get into goalscoring positions. He is the joint top scorer in the league with Toney and at has at least 3 more than anyone else, for a team in the botton half, he is the one player whose selection should be guaranteed.

Absolutely no chance whatsoever that you can drop the sole goalscoring threat that we have who has so many goals already this season. All good strikers miss plenty of chances, im not saying that Armstrong cant become better in front of goal because of course he can but the fact that he keeps getting into goalscoring positions tells you a lot. The very last player in our first team whose selection could be questioned.

Thompson is often mentioned and I have never seen him play but he must be a million miles from the first team. When we had no left backs last season he never even made a 9 man bench and again on Saturday we had to play a right footed winger at left back. Evans did have a chance but never in a million years did anyone think he would take it, his shooting is so weak. Vale and Butterworth have both played one solitary cameo off the bench in a dead rubber, counting them is just getting the number up. Bell and Bennett have been the weaknesses in our side since promotion so crying over their losses seems a little bit backwards too IMO. Dack is a big miss but one we have been without for quite a while. Travis again is a big loss as is Kaminski although Mowbray did get to pay 2 fees for goalkeepers this summer so it shouldnt be as problematic as it is. Ayala and Douglas came with big red flags over their injury record, and Douglas was really poor against Reading, whilst many were suggesting that Williams and Lenihan are the best partnership at the club a couple of games ago. Rothwell has had his best time here whilst on his sick bed after flattering to deceive throughout his Rovers career, would he make a huge difference? And Johnson has been in and out, 3 poor games for every good. Its obviously a blow to have some absentees but Mowbray using the number 11 is whilst numerically true perhaps painting a slightly false light on the situation.

Absolutely massive game and a huge blow if Armstrong misses, which I imagine he will as you cant risk a hamstring as Mowbray seemingly did yesterday for 60 minutes. With or without Armstrong, I think the 4-3-3 formation shouldnt be assumed anymore, 20 points in 18 games shows that it hasnt been a platform for success as much as I dont overly focus on the formation itself. If Armstrong is out then Gallagher is the only option, it is a big worry at a lack of a goal threat in Armstrongs absence but it makes it even more imperative that we dont play so openly because even if we do create lots of chances we will be even less likely to take them. One source of frustration and a sign of a side not being managed to maximum efficiency is its set pieces, our corners have been dismal this season in the main (why was Douglas not on set pieces when he played?) with stupid and disorganised short corners usually not even leading to a cross coming in. Stop that bollocks, Warnock knows how to deal with set pieces and Mowbray needs to be able to. Sadly, I expect some stupid nonsense like Gallagher wide and Elliott down the middle. Assuming that Gallagher starts, I would go with Elliott down the left in a 4-2-3-1, a natural left footer with a good delivery as shown for a chance created for Gallagher at Coventry and also a great cross for Armstrong v Reading. I am less fussed with who plays right, I have not seen any signs that Dolan has a good cross necessarily but he would give a nice balance down the right. The question then comes as to who plays with Trybull and Holtby and how the middle 3 are set up. I think that Evans has been a little hung out to dry by being played further forward, I dont think ideally he would be playing for us but as a secondary player sat deeper breaking up play he can be effective as he was with Travis, so I would consider doing that and giving Holtby a free role off Gallagher. The other option would possibly be to have Holtby next to Trybull and Brereton behind Gallagher but I am not convinced that Holtby and Trybull would provide the necessary protection for a defence that we have no real alternative but to play the 4 that played on Saturday in front of a dodgy keeper.

Has there been anything reported on Armstrongs injury? I expect now from the various media sources that Mowbray will be given an easy time on the nonsense he comes out with, not being worried about his decisions, just one of those days etc, as well as his repeated tactical mishaps notably Gallagher out wide, but surprised not to see nothing on the Armstrong injury. If he is injured, we are fucked.

Pears - a recent Mowbray signing Nyambe - a player who has played fairly regularly, although should be a shoe in at right back. Certainly no rookie. Lenihan and Williams - 2 internationals who have been regulars throughout Mowbrays reign, the former being the vice captain Rankin Costello - a player who Mowbray has found a starting place for in every game available so far this season bar when returning from injury, and who has played around half of his first team games at left back Trybull - a recent Mowbray signing and one with title winning experience at this level Evans - an international who Mowbray gave a big and long term contract too as a regular in his squads/team Holtby - a player with a very credible pedigree and a Mowbray signing undoubtedly on a very decent wage Elliott - a player we had to beg Liverpool to lend to us and a very big talent Brereton - a 7m signing Armstrong - a 3m signing Subs including a 5m Mowbray signing and in Chapman and Davenport, 2 more signings he paid fees for. Unavailability is unfortunate for Mowbray, of that there is no doubt, but lets not make out that he is on his own with that problem, with the constant fixtures and of course with covid, many teams across the league are suffering, and even in normal circumstances, a totally clean bill of health is rare. 2 of the absentees (Bell and Bennett) have been our biggest weaknesses since we got promoted and Rothwell's emergence to achieving barely anything in 2 years to now being a massive loss is very impressive. Many were calling for the perennially inconsistent Johnson to be dropped prior to his enforced absence, and Douglas was widely criticised after his performance in midweek.

The left back choice was admittedly very limited today, the only real alternative was Williams LB, Wharton CB. My point regarding the full backs was regarding the choice prior to today to at times choose Rankin Costello or indeed Bennett over Nyambe at full back. If there was little choice but to play Evans, firstly that would add further questions over the signing of Davenport, who Mowbray paid money for and hasnt started in 2 and a half years now. 2 options, play Buckley there, who I question the readiness of, or play Evans but in a midfield 2. The 4-3-3 shouldnt be above reproach, the results show that, and Evans is very limited, so have him and Trybull sitting deep and allow Holtby more scope to go forward perhaps. I think we should have signed Downing early in the summer who would have been a better option in either position. But of course that wasnt a choice today. All in all, the full back issue was one relating more to games prior to today, and the Evans point was more a shape issue, and again not really key to the overall points I was making.

I never really understand people giving such specific and definitive time frames to be judged upon. Firstly, what are the expectations in terms of decision making come next summer? Is it promotion or sacked, top 6 or sacked, is it more flexible, is 10th ok if we suffer too much from injuries or the style looks nice, how does it work? Secondly, does it not at all depend on progress within that? If we lose our next 6, if we pick up 2 points from our next 8 games, if we are in the bottom 3 come new year, if we sit 18th at christmas, if the "nice football" stops yet the results stay poor between, is it still stick until the summer regardless? Surely there is a point in which it becomes untenable before?

For the last 12+ months I have spent deliberating and dodging between thinking that it is all a bit stagnant, and then a result or 2 and I think it is maybe harsh to sack him, and its an endless cycle caused by the managers inability to get consistent results. There may be some signs at the moment that get people excited, perception of attacking football always makes some people more patient, but these signs would be if the manager had been in a few weeks and we was looking for areas in which we can develop over time, not years and years into his reign. This current style is very much style over substance, it lulls people into thinking we are competitive against the better teams, enhanced by opposition managers praising us, pundits gushing over our occasional goal gluts against poor teams, but it isnt getting us results, these better teams create a trap and we fall into it. The situation with absences is of course not ideal but it is par for the course at the moment with an increased workload and of course a pandemic, its not just us. The absent players seemingly have got better whilst injured, Dack and Travis, fair enough, Kaminski a puzzling one as he was close apparently last weekend, Ayala has massive injury history sadly. Beyond that, Bell and Bennett are liabilities, Johnson has a few poor games for every good one, Rothwell has flattered to deceive throughout his Rovers career, and Douglas is new and had a shocker midweek. Time is the one thing that the manager cannot think that he is owed. He has had bloody loads.

Totally agree.

A Birmingham fan and junior journalist has assured us however that we should just give the manager a free pass for the time being. Every team at the moment has absentees, its not an excuse. The manager needs time, hes only had is it 4 years? So could do with a few more months and on the off chance that every single player is available at some point, which rarely happens to anyone.

Absolute shite, anyone banging on about possession, "playing well", attacking football etc after the first time or two against decent opposition and going down the hard done by route has clearly awoken to the managers inability to get results against these teams. Pears looks shite, a little boy lost and for me his positioning for both goals was poor. How on earth does Rankin Costello sometimes play over Nyambe, the latter was our best player, Rankin Costello simply cannot defend as we saw for the second goal following a woeful defensive display midweek, he should never play that role other than in an emergency, but it seems that Mowbray is deluding himself into thinking that we are the Championship Liverpool. Williams as ever is not someone you want in the trenches, Lenihan is but hes all over the place at the moment. Trybull read danger a few times well and is neat and tidy, although very immobile and you can see why he was never a guaranteed starter at Norwich. Evans again was stupidly played in an alien role, he was neat and tidy and didnt do much wrong but to be honest didnt do much at all. Not sure what to make about Holtby, he is technically very good, loves a nutmeg, does he do enough overall? Not sure he does. Up front, no surprise that we are solely reliant on Armstrong to score all of our goals. He clearly was injured throughout the game but had to stay on otherwise any goal threat went, he missed chances and is not the most prolific finisher but he gets the goals, no questions there, where else do the goals come from? Brereton resorting to bumbling fool, every touch all over the place and zero goal threat, hes got his seasonal goal now so thats him done. Elliott had his quietest game too. The Gallagher on the wing shite made another ugly appearance too. Manager is massively at fault which I will mention in his thread. Stagnation is the best word.

Shite yet again, although the commentators keen to repeatedly point out how great weve been. Take Armstrong off before he does serious damage. Sadly our sole goal threat rests with him though.

Evans should be asked to sit with Trybull and give more solidity, play him where he has been playing and he will not do anything. He shouldnt be playing but we dont have much depth there, the alternatives are Buckley and Davenport who arent very convincing either. We should have signed Downing at the start of the summer. Have to win today, weve had a crap start and cant feel sorry for ourselves, there is plenty of senior experience there to get a result.

I never said that, it just seems illogical to consider teams fancied in pre season "underachieving" and teams not fancied "overachieving" both as top 6 rivals seems a bit contradictory.

But if that is the case, Reading surely arent? Not sure its fair to class games as "top 6 contenders" for both those not expected to challenge but currently in the top 6, as well as teams that are struggling but were predicted to do well. We faced Forest when they were pointless, not sure that can be classed as a defeat v a contender!