Be a strange one, Swansea need strikers and have very little money. Clearly out of our price range however.

Yeah I was going to say the same, seems we considered him beforehand and indeed he is training with a club next week so nothing is clearly imminent.

I am not using the benefit of hindsight, I said at the time more than once that the argument that they wanted to know what they were selling before starting was flawed. They would never know for sure, because at any point, there was the potential for any progress to be halted, it is such a fluid situation, no club could ever know. If you genuinely think that I am just using hindsight after the event, please read some of my comments at the start of this thread: Page 9, August 4th, in response to you ironically: "We arent going to have clarity any time soon, even after the season has begun, we wont know say 5 months into the season whether fans will be there, so there will always be an element on uncertainty." And this: "I would agree perhaps if there wasnt fans already and waiting to donate, who obviously know that the service that they will get is unclear. That wont be clear at any point either really. So season tickets wont be able to go on sale until after the season has started, thats implied by your scenario. If fans arent allowed in from October onwards, then theyd be delayed again. And even if they are, theres a chance of a second spike or that fans will stop being allowed in again." and this to chaddy: "Wait and see until when? Because as I said, the situation is obviously so fluid that there will never be a point when clarity is suddenly restored. If you wait and see, surely you wait until after the season starts as we at least know that at the start of the season, there will be no fans. So you wont have any clarity and thus income for 2 more months, for sure. Then the date could be pushed back further, again no clarity or income. Or best case scenario, fans will be allowed in from October. But from your logic, you cant still get any income in because what if theres a second spike and the gates are closed again? So do you get the problem? You can say "wait and see" but there will never become a point when anyone knows for sure if its safe to start selling season tickets.  Maybe state that refunds wont be allowed to make things totally transparent? More that any payments will be deferred until whenever it is when people are allowed back in." So I was consistent months ago that they would never know what they were selling, and was proved right. I also said that they dont need to hand out immediate refunds, and indeed said that they could defer partial refunds, which they did, and which I praised the club for. So I am not using hindsight, these are all long held opinions. In regards to your implications that I am just desperate to "throw mud" on the club, I have praised the club for the structure of the season tickets and the way that it is split, I have indeed purchased a season ticket myself, I have stated that no one can claim to have been sold something incorrectly because it was clear regarding uncertainty from the beginning, and indeed when chaddy said that he thinks that the club should have offered another alternative to suit those who will not watch ifollow, I defended the club by saying that in terms of structure, I dont see how they could have done it any other way. We have signed 2 players for fees of a total of £450k having seen go quite a few players to significantly reduce the wage bill as a result, so its not as if we have been on a spending spree. Although to clarify, I am not saying that we should have. But the fact that we have signed a couple of players doesnt in anyway discredit the points I am making which in my opinion have limited the season ticket income and/or will have harmed the relationship between the club and its supporters.

It made my head hurt that even now, the idea of delaying the release until they were "sure" that fans could attend, as if that they could ever could be, having seen the situation change totally within the week after going on sale, can be defended on that basis.

I still dont think you understand why that argument is a load of bollocks, because the club could never know. They waited and then announced when they thought one thing, 7 days later, the situation is the total opposite. They were in the same position in terms of being SURE as they would have been had they announced them 2 months prior. That argument makes zero sense, and indeed was proven as such because even when they THOUGHT they were sure, the whole thing changed almost immediately after putting them on sale. That uncertainty always would have been there and was always there, thats not a logical reason, even objectively, for a delay.

My point about Ayala was that as I said, I think he is a very good Championship centre back. But if it was based on what Mowbray likes from his centre backs, a good passing range and the mobility to play a high line, Ayala would not have been signed. Having blistering pace is not critical, having the legs to get up and down is and Cunningham did have that. He was also good once he got forward. What I am saying is yes, Cunningham fits the bill for me. Defensively good initially. Can get up and down. Good on the ball. Good going forward, far much more than our current full backs. Saying that, I have maintained that the most important aspect of defenders is how to defend.

I dont think you understand my point. They NEVER had or could have had a clear picture. Therefore, the only answer to not releasing them until we know for sure that we can attend, is NEVER to be able to sell season tickets, because they could NEVER be sure. They released them still when there was no guarantee, which was proven because the situation changed totally within a week. There could never be a point when the club could have been confident that fans could go into grounds, because as was proven, even if the plan was to start allowing fans back in, there was always a strong chance that any day, the government could stop it. So surely, the earlier they released them, still under the same element of jeopardy in terms of fans know the service is uncertain which is unavoidable, but they could have at least had more than a week of sales. The problem with your idea is surely no one would pay £230 for a solely online season ticket, because they could just buy the passes individually at the exact same price. There is no discount. I bought mine thinking that there was a chance of attending, but if it was decided before for sure that we cant go in, I possibly wouldnt have bought a season pass. It was a risk in terms of what I would get but knowing that in a worst case scenario, I would still get the passes I would buy anyway and the discount on a season ticket I would buy anyway. One thing that I will say about the structure of the season tickets is that no one can complain once they have bought one that the service was not as expected, because the situation was outlined beforehand, if you can, you go to games, if you cant, you get this and that for the "same" value. Last year, that was different, because people didnt know that (no one did) prior to buying season tickets. The price and the advertising campaign, as well as the release date and the lack of communication, very much a different story,

My comments were about the player on the assumption that he has fully recovered with no lasting effects from the injury, that he would fit into the current way of playing because he is good both defensively and going forward and that you dont need blistering pace, even in the current system, as long as you can get up and down which Cunningham very much did with great effect. The initial comment was that he wouldnt fit into our current way of playing, whicch I disagree with. In terms of the overall question, of course not. Cunningham is not the only left back out there, and of course there are downsides, notably his injury. If we can find a good left back somewhere in Europe, which should be a reasonable thing to achieve considering the time we have supposedly spent on the scouting network, then great.

Wigans defensive record improved massively in the second half of the season when they had Kipre and Balogun at CB. Mulgrew surely wouldnt have come back had he been likely to continue in their team. Hes not Championship standard.

Like I said, pace isnt essential, the ability to get up and down very much is. But when he plays he does get up and down and gave us an extra dimension pushing on. Unless that has changed with the injury.

Is there? I know we press higher up but there has been a lot of passing at the back in the opening games, especially at Newcastle. As you say though, he is a top quality defender at his level. I personally think that like Ayala, Cunningham is at a good age in terms of giving experience to a young side, he like Nyambe on the other side is capable defensively which is key, as if we leave the centre backs isolated too often, we will continue to concede goals. And I think he is a considerable upgrade going forward on any of our current full backs. Injuries are the main concern, and I dont expect him to sign, although I would be pleasantly surprised.

@JoeH what are your views on the Ayala deal out of interest? In terms of the reasons you gave for Cunningham not being the signing you want, Ayala falls down on the same points. Age? 29 like Cunningham, an age you described as "much older than would be ideal." Injuries? Has suffered with various injuries at Boro, 35 games is the maximum he played in a season, hasnt played since new years day due to ankle issues, and Boro fans have a running joke that he takes January through March off. Attributes to play Mowbrays system? Of course, his requirements for a centre back will be different to that of his full backs, but Ayala doesnt seem to really fit them. He is certainly not a ball playing centre back, Cunningham was a big upgrade technically, Ayala will be a huge downgrade on the ball compared to Adarabioyo, functional rather than anything else. He is also not the quickest. If we spend all season with both full backs pushed high up, he could well be exposed. I personally think (goes against me putting a dampener on everything!) that Ayala is a very good signing on the face of it, despite all of this. I consider his age a good thing, he brings experience, he brings know how, leadership, things that wont be measured by data, but he knows how to defend, how to win games, how to keep clean sheets and indeed how to get out of this league. We have lots of young players so experience is what the doctor ordered. Someone like Naby Sarr would have ticked all of these boxes. A couple of years younger, technically much better, I dont think he has had injuries. But he is a shit defender.

By both sides, I meant that he is capable both defensively and going forward, not as a right and a left back, As I showed with Rankin Costello, you dont need to be really fast to play that role, even in "Mowbray's system." I am unsure why you think it is critical. Rankin Costello wouldnt be considered there otherwise, he isnt fast but like Cunningham he can get up and down. If I was suggesting playing a veteran there, or a centre back, then I'd get your point. I think you are underestimating his ability to go forward, in his games last year he regularly did. That being said, I have always been wary that we shouldnt be signing really attacking full backs just to "fit Mowbrays system." Nyambe isnt really attacking. If there isnt at times an element of compromise with the full backs, the goals will keep going in to our net I suspect, and it is key that whoever we sign can defend. He is the same age as Ayala, 29. We have plenty of young talent in the team, having the experience of Cunningham and Ayala would be a big help when it comes to game management. We have lost the likes of Graham and Downing and Mowbray has stated that playing too many youngsters may breed inconsistency, and he is correct. "Revered as a god" No, just as a very competent Championship full back whose inclusion led to an increase in points that we were accumulating, and a reduction in the goals we were conceding. And obviously someone we are all familiar with, hence his repeated mentions. Wages, we are only guessing, we managed to do a deal last year. I dont think he holds much value to Cardiff, he hasnt made their squad yet, of course factor in the injury, he has a year left. I am not saying that we can or cannot afford him, I have no idea but its not a crazy suggestion. The injuries, or specifically the injury he suffered last year, that is undoubtedly the primary concern. I dont think we will sign Cunningham, he is mentioned not because he is likely to sign again but because he is someone that we all are familiar with. Mowbray never said that we couldnt afford Ayala at any point though.

The one downside to Cunningham is undoubtedly the injury concern. Otherwise, everything is a tick, good going forward, solid defensively, good experience, a good balanced full back who can do both sides. There may be a deal to do for someone but unless something changes massively, that clearly wont be us with our budget. Rankin Costello like Bell was very high up but ultimately, his crossing was poor and tended to go straight to the keeper.

Keeping a level of contact and communication. It wouldnt have been pointless to people who felt out of the loop. They were, but my point has been proven by what has happened. They thought it was clear to release the season tickets because the "signs" suggested we could come back. There was always a large chance of a sudden change, ultimately whenever they would have released season tickets, they would have done so amidst uncertainty. That has been proven because they thought they knew and due to the fluidity of the pandemic it had spun on its head after a week. Hence why, with the same structure of a back up option of ifollow and deferred income, they should have been released them far sooner, and of course cheaper. Ultimately I cannot see what the club could offer to those who dont want to watch ifollow that they would be interested in to be fair. Cant believe I am defending the club and you are criticising haha! Maybe like a few other clubs, the option of a small fee paid which acts as sort of a deposit for the seat and then buy the tickets individually for any games we can attend during the season?

Not the point that I was making, which was pointing out that pace is not criticial to being a full back in our current team. If the fee for Cunningham is out of reach then the fee for Manning certainly is hence the manager categorically stating that we cannot afford him. Manning may be the better investment opportunity but the common consensus is, excellent attacking full back but poor defensively. Cunningham can do both sides. I would also say that Rankin Costello like Bell last week was very poor with his final ball.

As I said, Rankin Costello isnt very quick but Mowbray plays him at full back. Cunningham can get up and down and more importantly can defend and attack well for a full back. No matter what the system is, if your full back cannot defend it will cause issues. But he regularly got up and down and with quality. You are speaking as if hes a slow centre back playing at left back who simply cannot get forward.

Im not sure the suggestion is that people feel cheated. The situation was pretty clear. It is other aspects of the season tickets that have come under the brunt of the criticism.

Absolutely. I was mainly commenting on your comments about his salary being potentially partially based on bonuses. I dont see how he could have achieved his bonuses to be paid them.

I would have to disagree, I thought he was good going forward, you dont need to be really quick, he played Rankin Costello there last week and he isnt quick. Cunningham could get up and down, of course until he got his injury.

If it was based on salary and bonus, it would only be expenditure in the acccounts if the bonus was achieved. We failed to meet season ticket sales and failed to hit the (perhaps ambitious) pre season target of a top 6 finish, so how would he have hit any targets? Ultimately, he isnt proving value for money with his work at the club so far.

Its not acceptable not to say an official word for 6 months. Even if it is just the clubs take on official statements, or reassuring people as a means of keeping contact. Do you agree that the excuse causing the delays in releasing season tickets, that they wanted to know what they were selling. They never could know what they were selling. That was proven because they thought they knew and the situation changed in a week. Ultimately the season passes were structured to cover if games were behind closed doors, so they could have released them in good faith a month before, sold many more. That uncertainty could never change regardless of when sales started. Yep the price rise is a stupid decision. Fair point but the difference compared to last season is that anyone buying a season ticket is doing so knowing that there is a strong chance that games wont go ahead. Last season to be fair it was a bit different in that people didnt know prior to buying a season ticket that they could be paying for ifollow links, this season they do.

To be honest, I think it might be difficult to get them to sign. Armstrong and Dack in particular would probably be best advised to hold off, and if we dont go up and there are teams sniffing around, the power is with them.

I am saying that the structure of the season tickets is the correct one. Ifollow links and the rest deferred as a refund on next year. Preston's offer is commendable, offering an immediate refund. Maybe it will turn into a masterstroke with very few people taking up the offer and the relationship between the fans as customers and the club being strengthened due to the goodwill of the gesture. But I totally understand Rovers in terms of how they have structured the season passes. Had the deferred refund not been offered, that would have been poor, but thankfully it was. One thing that it does prove is that it was senseless to wait so long to put the season tickets on sale on the basis that they wanted to know what they were selling. They never could have know what they were selling, indeed what they thought they were selling changed a week after

To be fair, whilst I do agree that an immediate refund is a very commendable but perhaps risky choice for Preston to make, have we spent some money? We signed Ayala on a free who whilst he is possibly towards the top of our wage bill, it is still a fraction of the wage savings made by letting go numerous players as we did. And Kaminski was a modest fee really. Of course I am not judging them as signings individually by saying that, nor am I saying that we should be spending loads of money at this stage. Pearson is not unique in that situation, Davies and Johnson are both on one remaining year and are attracting suitors. I worry next season that we will be in the same boat with Lenihan, Dack and Armstrong, with Nyambe already out of contract unless we either go up or get any of them to sign new deals which would be difficult. Yeah, and I am saying that the structure of our season tickets is something that I agree with. Helps cashflow, ensures that some fans are probably going to get (discounted) season tickets next year, yet also ensures that fans are getting some value from their season ticket. It is the lack of communication, the tone of the marketing campaign, the late timing of the release of the season tickets and the totally unnecessary price rise that I disagree with. Preston wont do no but they will get a full refund so they could pick whichever ifollow links they wanted and s