You clearly haven't read or understood my point. I am very happy for them to be given a chance should it be felt that it is warranted, I encourage it. But it should be seen as a bonus, and not just assumed that players who haven't kicked a ball in senior football can be considered as alternatives to signing new players to fill spaces in the squad.

I have watched him regularly for 3 years, so I feel like I am in a position to judge and critique. Possibly more than you if you have only seen him for Chile, although if that isnt the case, my apologies. The fee is of relevance and always will be from a club perspective, which on a Rovers forum rather than a Chile one, it very much is from the point of a club perspective. My primary criticism in regards to the fee was always spending 7m when we needed new signings across the team, rather than spending it on a player that didnt contribute at all for 2 years. 7m is a lot of money for us. I don't think that anyone has pulled a fast one, and I am pleased that Brereton is enjoying his international football. Objectively, and I appreciate the limitations of the World Rankings, but Bolivia are 81st, considerably lower than European nations such as North Macedonia, Albania, Slovenia, Bulgaria and Montenegro who I am familiar with, and most of the Bolivian squad plays in the Bolivian League. The links to Leeds are merely paper talk and speculation, we have no idea if Marcelo Bielsa is genuinely looking at him, I would suggest not. Same with the Sociedad links. You say that "Rovers have been a stone in his shoes" and that "he will thrive anywhere else." May I ask how much of Rovers you have seen to come to such conclusions? Last season, he played as left of a front 3 as he did when he scored for Chile, I actually felt that he was one of few players who benefitted from the system that Mowbray played. My main point was that it is easy to get caught up in "Brereton mania" and with the fairytale of the story, being found on Football Manager on the back of a Rovers programme interview, and indeed the general curiosity of him playing in the Copa America. I was absolutely buzzing for him when he scored v Bolivia and also watched the first half v Uruguay who are a very notable footballing country, where although he was quiet in the main, he made a very telling contribution towards the goal by Vargas. As a Rovers fan, I will still judge him on his performances for us, and I thought he did ok last season, nothing remarkable, on the back of 2 seasons in which he looked a million miles off. I am just keen not to make extreme conclusions as if he is this brilliant talent being supressed by Rovers or even Mowbray, he still at this point goes down as a very curious and ill judged signing. I hope he can continue his improvement this season.

The key is not to make out that Brereton suddenly and temporarily becomes a miles superior player when he goes away to Chile, working with a manager he can presumably not even understand! He scored v international minnows, held his own v a very strong team and then didnt do anything in a loss to an average side, fair play to him, but hes not suddenly a world beater. Last season, he did ok and Mowbray found a role and has to be considered somewhat responsible for any improvement, although overall, still an ill judged signing by him for a scandalous fee.

@bluebruce summed up my point perfectly. I am in no way discouraging the potential game time for youngsters who are ready. But it needs to be seen as a bonus rather than something we can be sure that we can rely upon, and we still need to sign players in the positions which we need, rather than assuming that a player without senior experience can plug the gap. A huge chance to test one or two was lost by our idiot of a manager at the end of last season in dead rubbers.

Whilst I think that talk of Leeds and Real Sociedad is pie in the sky, maybe after this tournament may be the best time to sell him. Prices/interest in players can swell on the basis of one international tournament.

No evidence whatsoever that Pike and McBride are capable of playing Championship football. They should have been tested in the dead rubbers, as it is, we cant rely upon them as it stands. If they do break through, bonus, but we cant count in them as squad players when they havent kicked a ball in the first team. Every year we have supposedly half an under 23 team that "should be part of the first team this year" but it doesnt work like that.

Luton have made the worst signing in the current window by signing Amarii Bell. Horrendous addition.

Do you think that 5 losses would cause Mowbray to be sacked?

May I ask what market you think we will be working in? Mowbray has said numerous times that we are going to again be reliant on loans and dealing in the free agent market. As well as this, the market in general is going to be much more focused on free agents moving around, more players than ever have been released it seems. The Pickering one is very much an unknown, it has the potential to be good but until if and when he performs, then it doesnt show any nous, although we should always "need" nous surely! The thing that has underpinned our recruitment for years has been one that should only really be used when a manager is used, familiarity. Players the manager has worked with before, players from Boro and players that have family members known to Mowbray. Quite a few are just ones that have caught Mowbray's eye playing against him, Dack, Gladwin and Brereton included. Kaminski is the only one to date that showed a bit of creativity. A lot of the players that I have seen you recommend such as Kirk and Curtis are ones that would require fees for. The only chance I can see of us paying fees is if Armstrong goes, and even if he does, can we afford to wait until inevitably late in the window before we start to recruit? The contracts we have sorted are the easy ones, the ones that wont have any interest elsewhere. Still have Armstrong, Nyambe, Rothwell, Lenihan, Brereton etc all on a solitary year. Mowatt has never been realistic either. I am not saying that the signings made to date are ones that we should have signed, although lets not pretend that our inactivity is a tactical ploy to wait for better players. This is always the way. There is always an excuse as to why Venkys never pull their fingers out of their arses and why signings are never proactive. Usually because they want the manager to fly over because they are stubborn. Then the pandemic, now because they themselves have failed to delegate as necessary to submit the accounts. Excuses, excuses, excuses. Do we want players to fit into Mowbray ball? Woods is a decent enough player to be fair but the thought of more possession hogging is a sad one.

Why is he still in a job? Literally no idea. At a guess, I suppose that he has earnt Venkys trust as Bowyer did by settling things down initially, which allows them to treat the club as an irrelevance again. Who would be fighting his corner? Again, no idea. I dont get the impression that Venkys are mulling over his future. If there is anyone specifically fighting his corner, presumably Waggott? Is it beyond the realms of possibility that he knows he's unsackable and can therefore say whatever he wants? I suppose not no, I just personally dont think or get the impression that he is taunting us. But I don't know the answers to be honest. Just speculating like you and everyone else.

Whilst you exaggerate massively the potential reaction to those individuals, I did specifically say that there is "not much to get excited about and im not sure how many if any I would have here." Graham is an interesting one, in that he got twice as many goals (12 v 6) over a player that you repeatedly recommend in Kirk at Crewe from the same position, plus he is on a free, but I couldnt say if he would have been much use here. Ruffels and Wintle were seemingly top performers at League 1 level too but then again, anyone from League 1 is a gamble. Woods is a tidy midfielder at Championship player aswell. But yeah, overall, not much to get excited about. But 2 questions. Do you think that we are under Venkys far too slow at the start of a transfer window, pissing around with budgets and the usual budget pilgrimage that they lazily and stubbornly insist on, or do you not see an issue? And also, do you have faith that we will have a successful window, getting better than the average freebies that have already gone elsewhere? You look at the window that we had last summer. Kaminski, very impressive. Pears, its who you know I suppose. Ayala, scandalous deal. Trybull, late desperate deal, a load of shite. Douglas, horrendous. Elliott came from nowhere, very good.

I have long since given up trying to understand Venkys, nothing that they do is consistent or indeed logical. Maybe they do trust him like they apparently did with Bowyer, two managers who steadied things initially but outstayed their welcome, maybe they are busy worrying about the pandemic, whatever their excuse, it isnt good enough. I can't disprove what you are saying either, nor do I want to appear to be totally relaxed about the situation. I personally think that your conclusion regarding his interviews is a little far fetched, whereas presumably you think that I am naive. I dont like the fact that Mowbray is at the club and havent for a while, but his interviews isnt where my frustration peaks. When we have just lost another game, when I look at the table and see us languishing, when he names a bizarre team selection, when we yet again fail to score in the first half, things like that provoke me more.

The problem is not specifically to do with the loan deals, it is with this general way of working whereby you can guarantee a huge gap after the season before we pull our finger out, especially with the owners pissing about waiting for the manager to beg for a budget. I think that our loans have been mixed but there have been some obvious highlights and good use of the loan market. The problem has been that they have been the cherry on the top of a shoddy cake made by a shoddy baker. Out of the loans that you mentioned, only Van Den Berg is a loan (the other 2 are permanent) and it was a loan set up to be extended when it was done. He has to be better than Branthwaite who was an absolute car crash of a defender. Bowler didnt do much at Hull and Brown has talent but has never really found a home or shown too much so I am not necessarily bothered about those 2, but do you have any faith in us having a good transfer window? Signings wise, Birmingham have signed Woods from Stoke and Graham who had a good season at Gillingham, Cardiff have signed James Collins and Wintle from Crewe, Huddersfield have signed Rhodes, Ruffels and Pearson amongst others, Luton have signed Allan Campbell, Reece Burke, Onyedimna, Lansbury and Jerome, QPR signed 3 former loanees on permanent deals plus Dozzell and Stoke signed Wilmot to replace Collins. Not much to get excited about and im not sure how many if any I would have here, but I am not deluded enough to think that we can or will get much better sadly.

My point was that neither of us know for sure if he is gloating or just talking nonsense. I specifically said that the only person who knows for sure either way is Mowbray himself, all we can do is try and interpret. https://www.lancs.live/sport/football/football-news/blackburn-rovers-mowbray-future-results-20325498 He is clearly aware that the results are not good enough and the fans were become more and more discontent. He specifically said that ""I'm also a realist and I understand that I live in a results-driven business. I'm not hiding from it. I work hard everyday and I understand the consequences of not winning football matches but that is never not my decision." In another interview, he said: https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/19131704.tony-mowbray-the-bigger-picture-fan-frustrations/ “As you could see, we’re trying to be a possession-based team and when we get it right, we will be at the top of this league at some stage." I personally believe, and like yourself, I am aware that it is simply my own interpretation, that based on the constant stream of excuses that you touched upon that he repeats ad nauseum, that he is not gloating and more pleading for more time and patience, especially with the fans. To me, that falls on deaf ears because I judge on what I see and we are going backwards, not forwards. I don't doubt that he is trying his best, but his best is in my opinion nowhere near good enough. He has a theory on how to improve which I think is inherently flawed and further hindered by his poor and ill fitting recruitment.

I have quite clearly said that I am well aware that Venkys do not have the interest or the competence to sack managers based fairly on performance. You have concluded from his quotes that he is purposely gloating or "giving the middle finger" to the fans by talking nonsense, that is not proven to be true just because he hasnt been sacked.

Fair enough, I suppose the only person who genuinely knows if what Tony Mowbray said about being a "performance based manager" was sinister gloating about his job security or desperate nonsensical excuses attempting to justify incompetence is Tony Mowbray himself.

He talks rubbish but I tend to avoid his interviews nowadays, the ramblings of a failing manager. The issues are those that lead to the aforementioned failings, tactical issues, recruitment issues, man management issues, selection issues, whatever they are. The interviews are a by-product of these failings, equally when we was doing ok a few years ago and everyone was saying how refreshing his interviews were, I didnt get too excited either. Actions speak louder than words. I don't see him as some sort of manipulative con-man. He is just a failing manager tying himself in knots trying to keep the fans on side. No I agree, hence why a failing manager is merely a horrible symptom of negligent owners. But I meant more in answering more awkward questions after repeatedly poor results from journalists. I do think that results matter to Mowbray, no matter what (slightly out of context) he says in his interviews as he tries desperately to answer questions in interviews to cover his failings. Stuff about being a performance manager, its meaningless twaddle to desperately try and get people to persevere without judging him. The results are proof that he is failing. I am very keen to say going back to my initial point that I do not judge people on their attendance or non-attendance. Nor should anyone. I appreciate that everyone has their own financial issues, their own personal circumstances and indeed varying desperation/desire to attend games at any point. I have had a season ticket since 2000, but I have always been of the opinion that the responsibility regarding attendances lies solely with the club, for example after the Oxford game when many said "where are these people the rest of the time?" that I rejected that notion and instead was annoyed at the club and Waggott's incompetence in getting sales up the following season. I just was trying to understand why recycled interview quotes are the final straw, we are clearly going backwards on the pitch which is reason enough for anyone not to attend should they choose. I am just skeptical that these quotes really are the straw that broke the camels back. Although even if they are, fair play.

Just dont get how in that all of those other reasons are so major, that his interviews can be the final draw, these soundbites are often recycled by the Lancashire Telegraph and can be taken out of context or misinterpreted. Do we really think he doesnt care about results or that he doesnt check the league table? Of course he does, but hes doing a poor job so especially when he is asked more difficult questions, like anyone who would defend their incompetence, he spouts nonsense or tries to bring down expectations.

Out of interest, why are recycled soundbites the deciding factor in whether you attend? I dont get why people get so worked up about the nonsense he says. Its usual self preservation bullshit, he obviously doesnt really see results as an irrelevance and he is going to make excuses up. And thats not me questioning anyones support, I am the first to say that the onus is on the club to increase supporters, whether it is by results/recruitment/management on the pitch or things such as pricing. But I dont get why his interviews are the thing that causes so much anger. If you was to say that you arent attending because you dont rate the manager, you dont like the results, you dont like the owners, the prices are too high, the best players may be sold, the team is going backwards, I would understand any of those, and agree even though I am still going very much in spite of these reasons. But his interviews dont really bother me personally so just trying to gauge where I am going wrong.

In the Tony Mowbray thread?

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/local-sport/blackburn-rovers-goalkeepers-loan-move-24392062.amp Our transfer embargo causing issues.

I meant that we will not replace him with an individual that will get such an impressive tally. The idea of buying half a team with the proceeds is a nice one in theory but not only very difficult, based on our previous recruitment, it is unrealistic under the current manager. We are stronger with Armstrong than without him.

If a players ability is defined by his price tag then there is no such thing is being over or under priced. I agree that tournament involvement can swell a players price, often unreasonably, how many players have got big money moves on the back of tournaments and failed to justify their price tags? Maybe if Brereton continues to do well and artificially inflate his price tag at Copa America, now would be the best time to sell him? I didnt watch the entirety of both games but I watched the first half of the Uruguay game and a chunk of the Bolivia one, in general he looked at times a little lost but his skillset is so unfamiliar compared to the rest of the technical players that surrounded him that he undoubtedly was a threat. I totally appreciate that a player as young as Brereton can improve, for 2 years there was no glimmers of potential, this last season he contributed without being anything great but there was improvement and I dont doubt that he can continue to. Your comments about my supposed views of Mount are out of context, I certainly have never said that Mount isnt that good but in my opinion it has been this season that his game has gone onto the next level and he has justified a regular spot at Chelsea ahead of a few very capable alternatives. I even said that I would have selected him in the first 2 games of this tournament over Grealish. My point on Rice is that he is not a top midfielder in my opinion, not one of Europe's elite and against the best midfielders, he is incredibly limited. I have seen him linked with Chelsea for 90m, I would find that very strange and he isnt a patch on Kante and Jorginho. I suppose the fact that he is English, proven in the Premier League and presumably on a long contract all inflate his fee. He is obviously a decent midfielder but I dont think he is anything special. I agree that obviously Armstrong isnt the only player in world football that could score goals. I said that in all likelihood, if Armstrong moves on, his replacement will not get 28 goals in a season (or even close to, that is such an impressive tally) therefore we will be weaker without him, hardly a controversial viewpoint.

People make illogical signings after international tournaments, maybe he will never be more valuable and we can trick someone, perhaps Bielsa is not quite so gullible however.

People are getting carried away with the novelty of the Copa America. He is still nowhere near getting half way to justifying his fee. He has had 2 horrendous seasons and one ok one, plus a goal v a very poor national team. Ultimately though, the whinging will presumably continue at the manager because he is holding us back, so I can understand it. Its the elephant in the room, we cant pretend all is hunky dory.