Exactly. To be a little more simplistic, we scored more goals than 2 of the play off sides, interestingly neither of which was Cardiff who had the least possession. That was without Dack for half of the season, we have 2 goalscorers. We again let in over 60 goals, a bottom half standard defence. Who could possibly conclude that the problem with one of our defenders is that he cant attack well enough! He does need to get better going forward. That cross v Swansea was something hes never done before, although he was far more threatening bursting forward than he had been prior to this season. If he had someone in front of him who could stretch teams then as you say there wouldnt be as much reliance on him and if he was more conservative, the centre back on his side would also be less likely to be exploited.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thestar.co.uk/sport/football/sheffield-wednesday/garry-monk-reveals-why-keiren-westwood-isnt-training-sheffield-wednesday-plus-update-sam-hutchinson-2873580%3famp Article from June saying that when asked for more information on Westwood, Monk replied, “He has a shoulder injury… He was nursing that before all this. Speaking to the medical guys, he is coming more and more back to full health now, but In terms of his return to fitness, I think he is still a little bit of a way off that.” If he is injured then theres no point.

I dont enjoy watching sub par players because they make us as a team worse and are big contributors in us conceded over 120 goals in 2 years. By that reasoning, Walton, Brereton, Leutwiler, Mulgrew, Bennett etc were all equally important too. The main priority for the defence is to stop conceding so many goals. Why is the main "need" for him to assist? Lets hope the wide striker idea is knocked on the head because not only do Gallagher and co not contribute from that position (he got a measly 6 league goals, 2 in the last 2 games playing central, one at Preston central, one as a sub v Stoke central, one v Swansea from central and one when 4 up and v 10 men at Sheffield Wednesday when he had gone more central, hes a limited striker but a totally worthless wide player) but they place additional and unreasonable reliance on full backs to compensate for that, especially when our full backs are not capable of doing that. Rather than looking for strikers who might be less ineffective as wide men, we should adopt the novel idea of signing wide men. They dont have to be like Ripley and Wilcox types, just players who want to play wide. Sign players who affect games positively there and not only is that a benefit, but we can be more conservative and solid with our use of full backs.

Williams and Bell are shit, weve seen that consistently over the last couple of years. I dont think they could get a move to another Championship side although id love to be proven wrong. No one has ever doubted that. What you cant grasp is that people can see that we dont play with wingers, yet feel that Mowbrays approach is the wrong one. To say that we dont play with wingers would not be up for debate, its a fact. But to say "I dont agree with the way we play" or "I think we need natural wide players who can be more effective" or "our current full backs are not suited to providing assists" are all (commonly held) opinions. Neither full back gets assists and we have had problems getting our "wide" players to score and assist too. The likes of Gallagher, Brereton, Samuel (formerly) dont work well there, Armstrong ideally needs to be central and players like Rothwell struggle to score or assist due to a lack of quality end product. Plus it is not helping in terms of leaving the centre backs exposed. I know that we dont play with wingers Our only competent full back is Nyambe who is a defensive full back. He and Lenihan could form half of a much tighter defence in my opinion, very much a needed one, and I would look for attacking threat from the wide areas and would love a winger or 2 there. I would also give Rankin Costello and Chapman more of a go. Brereton and Gallagher should only play centrally when they play. Get a goalkeeper and CB with Lenihan, Evans, Travis, Dack and Armstrong and its a very good spine. Have more defensively minded full backs like Nyambe and someone like Cunningham (who can also attack but he helped us keep clean sheets) and some natural width and I think we would be much better off. My opinion. I dont think that is how we play.

Would you be happy signing someone of Westwoods age? If it happened. And did Fox single handedly concede those goals?! You overestimate our current players. Fox is better than the inept Bell and the other 2 are better than Derrick Williams. Hardly a glowing endorsement I admit! I dont think we should necessarily have signed them but I am unconvinced that Mowbray has either the finance or the ability to find better.

The fact that Nyambe is a defensive full back, whilst I agree that he needs to improve going forward a lot, I feel that our main priority has to be stopping the goals leaking at the other end. So I think there will need to be compromise on this idea of having 2 full backs almost as wingers.

I would have rather had Marshall or Etheridge because there is a doubt that Westwood has spent too long not playing to regain that form. But its so much better than getting someone like Muric on loan.

Haha, again rehashing things. What would you make of that chaddy? Not fitting your long term criteria? I think an experienced keeper is the way to go.

https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/sport/football/news/keiren-westwood-sheffield-wednesday-championship-18802356.amp?__twitter_impression=true Even if he is close to being 36, I would definitely take him here. Maybe with someone like a Pears type ready to take over. Either way, all for someone of that type of experience. Main worry would be thats hes not played north of 20 games in any of the last 3 seasons.

"As a part of the ongoing commitment to keep our supporters up to date" An objective our current incumbents always pass with flying colours...

@chaddyrovers anything in the Lancs Live will very much be a junior journalist rehashing what is already in the public domain. Wouldnt pay too much notice in that. I mean, that Russian keeper is a rumour from here!

To be fair, Downing was getting regular game time because he was putting in regular performances of a very good standard. Johnson has been very in and out despite his experience, Graham was almost exclusively a sub, so I think he isnt overly reliant on experience, Evans deserves his place and Bennett is very much an exception being plugged into any vacant spot in the team, although even that became slightly less frequent. I also look at our most regular central midfielder in Travis and I think that Mowbray has done well by him. He gave him a chance and he has never been anything but one of the first names on the team sheet since and has come on well. I dont have a problem with the minutes he gives to young players, the only issue I would say is that he plays them in the wrong position. Rankin Costello has played once out wide, where he was very quiet, once as a 10 and the rest at left back. He doesnt get in the team there on merit but he should play in his natural position. That being said, with Mowbrays freakish obsession about wide forwards, is there room for Rankin Costello to play his natural position? If we could have Armstrong and Dack central and Rankin Costello could become an internally sourced goal threat from a wider position, we could chalk up some goals. Buckley again is quite clearly only a central player, no point playing him wide. Does he get in or that close to the team central? Not at the moment. There is also Nyambe but I think barring the Milwall game in which he "wasnt confident" that Nyambe is usually the chosen RB. That being said, you have a point with some of his media comments. The Raya ones being a perfect example often ignorant to his own personal failings.

@Amo quite interesting to see that as a long distance supporter, you are not looking forward to it. bigdoggsteel mentioned that he is looking forward to the fact that he can at least probably watch the games in a way that he couldnt before. Im guessing that its the on field situation, with the current manager and the lack of transfers etc mainly rather than the pandemic? How did you find watching behind closed doors football at the end of last season? How much did it effect you in terms of their being no crowds, lack of importance, lack of atmosphere etc...

The thing is with Dack, he continiously scores poachers goals, thats the bread and butter. I think when he scored v Wigan last season, it ended his biggest run of games here without a goal, only 6. He is scoring out of nothing too.Thats the most sustainable type of goals because they come consistently and even during otherwise unproductive team displays. Rhodes had that knack too. Armstrong has scored more wonder goals, firstly he has to prove this season that he can continue with the impressive numbers that we can guarantee with Dack. You are right about the pair of them being critical this season if we can keep them. For me, Gallagher and Brereton would be back up to them, only ever played centrally. There is probably only scope for a maximum of one of them on the pitch with Dack and Armstrong fit, with Armstrong (not ideal) put wide. The thing that is so frustrating is that we now have 2x 15+ attackers in terms of goals. I know that doesnt guarantee a top 6 finish as proven by Bowyers team but if we were managed correctly, now is the chance this season to really push for it before at least one of if not both of them leave. If they dont leave before. You look at all of the teams that finished from 5th down in this league and do any really have 2 goalscorers like that? Bristol City have Wells and Diedhou, maybe they would argue similar. But we have a massive advantage.

The thing with Dack is that he has a more proven track record of being able to score regular goals over a longer period.

Mount often played deeper and only turned 20 half way through that season. Different players but Dack doesnt get close to Chelseas team. But Benrahma? Watkins? Could argue probably Eze. Either Mitrovic and Pereira or a host of players for the relegated sides depending on who stays.

The most frustrating part about this summer is not the predictable fact that we clearly arent going to be spending much. Thats probably quite common. Its that we dont have a set up whereby Mowbray could have found that out after the Milwall game and been more proactive, even if it was sithout being armed with transfer fees because with coronavirus that has become a very saturated market. If only we had a normally run club by owners with any interest in what is happening. The problem is that we had big gaps left by loan players. We need a goalkeeper and a centre back, and obviously a left back too. Players like Morgan Fox, Grant Hall, James Chester, they are nothing special but they are decent Championship players for free. I would love to be proven wrong and see us spend a bit of money sensibly and get better players that those that I have mentioned, because they arent groundbreaking or promotion winning players so it is possible. But I have no confidence and little hope.

If you are of a mindset that we are relegation candidates prior to any new signings, considering that Mowbray has spent around 20m here and had over 3 years to build, then that would be incredibly damning. I personally think that we arent in threat of relegation, I think that would be a little overdramatic, even though I also have massive doubts that he can take us forward and would The one area that as it stands is a total curveball is the goalkeeping area which has been neglected to the point of us only having kids there. I dont have any faith in Mowbray fixing that area, considering his negligence bringing in Walton and letting Raya go for cheap to partially fund Gallagher, and would guess at a kid on loan which wont be much use. But if we are assuming that we arent even going to bring in any goalkeepers, which we will of some description, maybe relegation is an outside bet but even then, with some of our players I would suggest that it is highly unlikely. If the theory factors in the sale of key players which is possible, thats a different story.

Key word is "may."

Even when he did play, I feel like he was often underrated due to the consistent nature of his goalscoring. He would be a huge loss if he left. He often attracted unfair criticism when he went a game or two without scoring just because ultimately he had not lived up to his own high standards. Same with Rhodes, I think people sometimes underappreciate natural goalscorers. The BEST player in the League though? Very, very difficult if not impossible to justify such a statement. I also think that doubts are fair regarding his recovery from injury. Regarding Downing, my opinion was that I hoped that he would sign on for another year and I stand by that. It hasnt changed just because he might not sign, nor does having the opinion that it would be a shame to see him go mean that we should wait forever. Pinnock was very much the stand out of the 2 and his impressive performances for Brentford compared to Lindsays struggles at Stoke back that up. And no, if you have no time for other fans opinions then fair enough, just scroll past. I and others consider them a valuable source of information as to a new player in terms of how they are viewed at their previous club, of course not treating them as a sure indicator of what would happen here or an alternative to judging them in a Rovers shirt. I never necessarily said that I am sad that we missed out on those players. Mowbray now has to go out and get better than those standard Championship defenders. Although I do doubt that he will have the resources nor the ability to find them and get them here.

There is a massive difference compared to the refund situation. That was a situation in which the pandemic was totally unexpected. A refund would have reimbursed a small percentage who werent content/had no access to watch online. If people agree to a season ticket fully aware that the situation is flexible and unclear then they wouldnt have the right to say that they didnt expect it. There is a huge difference in the timing and any knowledge of the pandemic prior to purchase. As I said, there never has to be a refund even if the whole season is behind closed doors. Only a deferral of the payment covering next season.

Essentially those donations with season ticket privelidges down the line are the same thing! People would know that there is uncertainty. Even factoring in a quite frankly idiotic naivety should someone not realise that already, but it could be transparently stated in the release. You are making out that they are being tricked into it. And as if the club are purposely going to take the money and run.

What do you mean that we are kicking the club because "we havent sold twice the capacity?" It could be out of the current season ticket holders up until we hit a cap of say 20% (6000) or 25% (7500) when it is stopped. I dont think we would sell that many, say we sold 3000 at a reduced price of £250, thats 750k brought in of crucial income. And an amount that could be allowed in should the gates be allowed to open in October, or if necessary delayed, even under heavy restrictions. Seems a little disingenuous to suggest that people are unhappy because they have set unrealistic/silly levels of sales. Even a limited amount would surely be better than nothing?

But the fact is, you wont buy a season ticket until you know what you are getting, which is totally understandable. Other people are willing knowing full well that things are up in the air, not naive to that. Why is it immoral to allow them to do so?

The days of Best and co are not a valid barometer. I dont think we should be willing to settle for no ambition, just a team trying their best and no odious and disinterested egos. We have had that for a few years and it is somewhat flattering really that we want and feel like we can have more. The side is full of young players/academy graduates too. Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis are the first 3 names on the team sheet. The likes of Rankin Costello, Buckley, Wharton etc can be in and around it but we need some quality around that. But it is our Rovers. You mention teams gone by, they had sensibly added quality around them, to progress our young lads need and deserve the same. Disagree with your comment about the players coming on here and witnessing abuse. If players dont perform very well then this is the perfect place to discuss this and air those opinions. Good and bad performances in fact. They shouldnt really come on here, especially after poor performances, nothing could be gained from it. It does not wquate to knocking their confidence down. It is using a messageboard as the perfect platform to discuss good and bad points equally, and not jumped on if they say something negative. Because sometimes it is warranted.