I agree that Douglas has been a massive dissapointment for us. We have hopefully put it down to rust but if you look at it, he is 31 on the back of not much football and plenty of injuries, maybe it is catching up with him. He was outstanding for Wolves but he wasnt playing as a left back for them and he was out more than in for Leeds who were also far better tactically than we are under Bielsa. So yes he has had 2 promotions, one of which was when he was in his prime and playing a totally different position and the other he was a bit part player. I just feel that Bell's incompetence has perhaps been somewhat forgotten. I have seen him have games as bad or even worse in a Rovers shirt many times. When he came on, he was beaten really easily a couple of times (hes not a good one on one defender) and technically he is far less secure than Douglas, so often the ball will come to him and he will take ages to get it under control or fail to keep the ball in play/possession. Based on both players performances in a Rovers shirt so far I dont think there is a good left back between them and it looks by far our weakest position at the moment. It is a huge worry and a position Mowbray hasnt put much stock in.

You cannot argue with his goal record in 2020, his biggest run without a goal this calendar year is 3 (according to the commentators last night) which is incredible for any team, let alone a mid table one. And he is on 27 goals in 2020. Perceptions of self involvement and greediness are just par for the course for a goalscorer and of course may lead to frustration at times but more often than not his single mindedness as a striker is what gets him his goals. His touch and pass for Elliott was also very good.

I agree that it after 4 years Mowbrays Rovers career is not driven by luck, even if a few of those signings would not be necessarily outright success. He failed to keep us up, did well to get us back and now we are stable in mid table, seemingly having long since hit a wall that Mowbray can not take us past. If he left tomorrow, the job he has done could be considered a good one but it seems unlikely that it can be further improved upon. Your last paragraph and in particular this notion that our fans think we are a Premier League club by rights is total, speculative, desperate nonsense however.

Shocking performance, absolutely dismal against a terrible team but (albeit its a massively diluted feeling watching at home with the backdrop of an empty stadium) like v Millwall im elated with the late winner. Todays performance can not be the catalyst for Mowbrays departure, we won at the end of the day. The fact that we are destined to muddle around mid table with Mowbray in charge is reason however. I have been reluctant to be overly critical of Armstrong in recent games despite poor performances just because of how prolific he has become. I think that is his 27th goal of 2020, and his biggest goal drought remains at 3. Its impossible to escape how impressive that is especially for a mid table side and again he was the saviour tonight. His pass for Elliott was also very selfless, a talent who was quiet tonight but another crucial for a player heavily contributing at such a young age, the pair deserve plenty of praise. The supporting cast is non existent, Gallagher was full of bumbling clumsiness and sloppy touches, offering nothing as is the case more often than not and we have no credible options to improve the front 3 from the bench. If Armstrong hits a genuine dry spell we really are buggered. Defensively we continue to fail to keep clean sheets even against a really limited side, I think the commentators said that is 1 clean sheet in 9. Douglas and Bell did a job share on the inept left back role, the former was all over the place before the latter came on to remind us something that maybe has been forgotten since he has been dropped, quite how bad he is as well, he was possibly worse than Douglas. Nyambe was nowhere near his usual standards and nearly cost us at the end, and the 2 centre backs had little to do but dont give off full confidence. The midfield was key to our struggle, I pin pointed the curious selection of Buckley prior to kick off and he was so far out of his depth again it was untrue. He always wants far too much time and it was again a boy in a mans game. Rothwell continues to flatter to deceive and kept coming far too deep, and Johnson was ineffective. Holtby and Trybull were slight improvements and Downing who I feel has been underused since his return was on a different level when he came on, a classy cameo amidst a shit storm.

Like watching paint dry.

Downing hasnt been given a chance this season, last season he was excellent.

I never said or even suggested that. I would have personally selected Downing because he has been far more effective in a Rovers shirt. Buckley more often than not looks a little out of place, I hope as I say that he takes his chance tonight.

Strange decision to start Buckley. Has thrived a couple of times against teams a few down and a man down, when he got his chance v Forest he was well out of his depth so he needs to perform today. Holtby cant argue about being dropped, but I would have gone for Downing in his place who must wonder why he bothered to come back.

I think the last accounts were published were for the year ended 30 June 2019, so it is likely that following the additions last summer of Gallagher, Holtby, Johnson, Downing and this year of Kaminski, Ayala, Pears and the 3 senior loanees that our wage bill has gone up fairly significantly on those figures.

I do love Roy Keane as a pundit but he certainly does play on his reputation of being a certain type of character.

I dont think that we are in a position whereby we need someone to come in and crack a few heads together, we arent in a position whereby there is a mutiny, there is a damaged team spirit, its just we may need someone to take ue on the next step.

I am not even convinced that it is a case of bottling it when we get near the play offs, I am just not convinced that the current manager is capable (with this squad) of picking up points with the consistency of a top 6 team. The style of play and performance levels is perhaps not as straightforward as it seems, not until it does actually start producing the results that many have understandably taken hope from that it will. I definitely have been entertained at times this season and that of course is exciting, I am not advocating a complete swing and resorting to direct football (not that I am pompous enough to consider that any less acceptable, we just dont have the personnel) but equally I do wonder if similar results with a further strengthened side may show that our current style isnt the most effective in its current form. Maybe the current style leaves us exposed on transition and highlights defensive flaws that still havent been resolved? Maybe there is a naivety against the better teams which is leaving us exposed? The best teams tend to maximise set pieces for example, ours are absolutely dismal with often ineffective routines and a manager who admitted last week that he doesnt get involved and leaves it to his staff. So I am unconvinced if the results will come and indeed maybe even though we think we are "playing better," it is style over substance and deceiving us that we "deserve" and will get more than is actually true.

Your desperation to paint the fanbase as overly negative is impeding on any logic. The consistent argument against Mowbray is that he has has never gotten us into that top 6 reckoning, so now to imply that if we did finally manage to push on that next step, that people would then adapt their criticisms to downplay that is totally without evidence. I may be wrong but you have in the past been critical of the manager so I am unsure why you are now resorting to painting any criticism to be unreasonable, backed up with made up hypothetical arguments.

One of the main problems as well is that the likelihood is that by the time they return, we may have a couple more injuries. The idea of a fully fit squad is a fanciful one at the best of times, never mind in an intense 2 games per week schedule with the added risk of isolation etc. With Dack as well, he missed half of last season and will miss half of this so to compare, its essentially like for like!

I just cant escape this constant and potentially never ending cycle of a few more games, one more season, we continuously wait for something to fall into place whilst consistently lounging in mid table and never making even a temporary push into the top 6. The performances are to me immaterial, ideally we would play beautiful football but its not important compared to results. The players are better yet the results are the same, maybe the style is only further highlighting and exposing our weaknesses? My point is more that he has a better squad than he has done prior in regards to a few signings being notable upgrades yet he is still picking up points at an identical rate. Its not a flippant, sudden call after a couple of losses, it is based on the whole season, and a continuous inability to really put ourselves into a genuine top 6 position. I would argue that using flawed examples of teams that have gone on late surges, referring to those who have questioned the managers future as fickle based on a couple of results and indeed setting stupidly low benchmarks of not being in the bottom 3 as more illogical and indeed hopeful in the face of evidence rather than making a judgement at the here and now. No one has said that we are in the bottom 3, if we was, like I said the calls for Mowbray's head would be unanimous, and its a desperate argument to throw that line in as if it in anyway dismisses the argument some have that Mowbray has taken us as far as he can go. I dont believe in giving specific time frames, managers can be judged mid season as well as at the end of a season. The full squad argument again is not one I can get on board with, simply because EVERY team is suffering from injuries more than ever this season, and I would be amazed if we go into ANY game this season with a fully fit squad, it is an unreasonable expectation and waiting for such an eventuality is unrealistic. When Dack and Travis return, a couple of others will likely be injured, it is just par for the course this season. We played Bristol City last week and lost, they were missing 8 players basically all of whom were first team guaranteed starters. We are about to play 2 teams this month who have just lost their main attacking players. It is a squad game more than ever this year and it is our squad that many have been bigging up this season, the various options and of course the time and resources Mowbray has had to build a whole squad of players of his choosing. Regarding who I would replace Mowbray with, I dont know. I am of the opinion that the manager is critical and certainly wouldnt cut corners financially, so if it meant taking that money from future transfer budgets then so be it. Off the top of my head, someone like Eddie Howe would be a signal of intent but as I said, I cant profess to make a judgement in the same way that I feel 100% in a position to make a judgement on the future of the current manager.

To be fair, its been the case for a while now in which we have been x points, a run of wins, a fully fit squad, a bit of luck, there is always something between us and the top 6 and that something never goes away. The last sentence is a bit confusing. First you acknowledge a discrepancy in the results which is the basis of the reasoning behind those that suggest a change in manager. You then contradict yourself by claiming that we look better than previous seasons when those aforementioned results suggest otherwise. Merely "competing ok" is not justification for a manager to keep his job indefinitely. If Mowbray was to be sacked, it would quite obviously not be a cut and dry case like with Kean/Coyle etc where he is miles out of his depth, hence why people are so split on the issue. It would be because it was deemed that we are not (or at least unlikely to) take that next step and become serious top 6 contenders as we have strived to be since the start of last season. Last season, when we made our signings, the rhetoric was a top 6 challenge, we never came close, the players publically said that they fell short, but a line was drawn under the season. Maybe it was always a bit of a stretch. This season however, we are equally far away, our record is basically identical to last season. (and the year before) How long does this go on before those forlorn hopes of a late surge up the table to get into the top 6 having never done so before become unrealistic? If he was to be sacked, he could be proud of the job that he had done even in spite of being unable to take us on that next step. Your last sentence is a desperate, strawman argument. Is your stance on the matter as long as we arent in the bottom 3, he can keep his job? Is that the only time any manager should be sacked?

Its totally unreasonable to expect people to withhold judgement until the end of the season though. This is Mowbray's fourth full season, we are not at a point when we cannot flag up if we feel like we are stagnating, we arent improving, that we maybe could consider a change. "Give him until the end of the season" is such a rigid barometer, what if he was to lose the next 6, the next 10 for example? Surely that rule even to the most patient of supporters has a breaking point. This idea that we will put a run together to not only accumulate points at a rate that gets us into the top 6 but also enough to overcome not only a points deficit but also numerous teams in a similar situation is just incredibly fanciful based on anything seen to date. Villa are a flawed example to use in that they required not only the huge signing of Tyrone Mings in January to help them but crucially, they when stagnating changed manager from Steve Bruce to Dean Smith in October who was the catalyst in their surge up the table.

2 of our December opponents have had serious injury blows in the last week, Koroma at Huddersfield is out for 3 months and Tyrese Campbell is out for the season for Stoke.

I dont like the idea of Damien Johnson taking over when Mowbray does go. A rookie from within to take over from a long lasting manager when it is finally decided that things have gotten a little too stagnant doesnt seem particularly logical to me.

To be fair, the main reason that the defence is repeatedly criticised is that it has been the primary source of our failings/losses since we came up. Our attack has the 2nd most goals in the league, our defensive record is the 15th best. You mention the cover thing which is a fair point. Considering that the squad of players this season is seemingly the best one that Mowbray has had, yet we are achieving identical results with it whilst playing expansive football, maybe that suggests that the current style doesnt totally suit the players we have or that it exposes our weaknesses?

I do wonder what changes we could make without severely impacting the team. Armstrong and Elliott certainly cant be dropped, Gallagher isnt convincing but would Dolan or Chapman really improve us? Neither Rothwell nor Holtby has nailed down a place, maybe bring in Downing for probably Holtby but the likes of Buckley and Davenport wont improve us. Trybull may be a consideration but Johnson has been our best midfielder this season, 100%. Douglas would perhaps warrant dropping but I wouldnt want to see Bell come back in, we know he isnt good enough. Kaminski Nyambe Lenihan Ayala Douglas Johnson Downing Rothwell Elliott Armstrong Gallagher

It is really bizarre how contrasting peoples opinions are at the moment to the question of whether we are progressing under Mowbray, it seems almost a 50/50 split between those looking at the league table, the points gained and cannot see progression, or those that are adamant that we are progressing in spite of those results. Even this morning, Rich Sharpe and Mike Delap (with plenty more in agreement underneath) tweeted the below, there is a certain insistence by many that we are progressing as if results are an irrelevant by product of performances. Mikey Delap - "Anyone who has watched this Rovers side this season should be able to spot an improvement on what’s being offered up." I dont think there is many who would argue that the team this season is better, Kaminski for one is a huge upgrade in goal and Harvey Elliott is a vast improvement (much better yesterday back in his natural position may I add) on anything we have had out wide before under Mowbray. Brereton has really come on this season and is offering something he simply did not offer in his first 2 seasons. Them 3 alone are big improvements, that is before you can argue the toss on perhaps more subjective matters, have Ayala/Trybull/Douglas/Dolan improved us, are the likes of Johnson, (for me a definite yes) Holtby, Rothwell, Gallagher etc now offering more due to a full pre season, the new system etc? I dont get how considering that we have better players, that the fact that we do have said better players justifies us making progress, surely logic means that if we have better players yet are achieving almost identical results, that is regression rather than progression? Maybe people feel that if we accumulate almost identical results and still finish mid table but do it in a commonly accepted much more aesthetically pleasing way, people consider that in itself to be progress? Something that compounds the issue for me is that we are uncompetitive against the better teams, although again, because we appear competitive and play some pretty football in those games, even though we always come out on the wrong side of the result, again maybe some feel that we are competitive? Mowbray was very flippant, the usual guff basically about anyone beating anyone, but it obviously isnt a coincedence.

When you start believing that deflections go against us more often than not, it is clutching at straws, such an observation is totally baseless and nothing to do with hard luck across the course of a season. Against both Millwall and Brentford, we benefitted hugely from late deflected goals, within the last 4 games.

Those who believe that it is a time for a manager can very easily be painted as a blood thirsty mob desperate for instant success based on unrealistic expectations. Implying that those who want the manager out also wanted Big Sam out is a lazy assumption again aimed at making those who want a change are impatient, irrational and too demanding against all logic. The fact of the matter is, opinions about the playing style put to one side, despite having more time than any manager (bar Wycombe's) in the league, despite attempting to play a new style to dominate (a change which whilst most agree that it is more entertaining is no more productive) and despite signing numerous players and spending money, a few of which (Kaminski and Elliott in particular this season) are huge upgrades on what we had before. In regards to points tallies and results compared to previous years, we havent improved. We also havent even popped our head into the play offs even for a day/week/couple of hours since the third match, the top 6 is the target but we cant yet realistically be even deemed serious contenders. It is fair to acknowledge that there would be a small risk should the manager be changed. Mowbray could not be accused of being a terrible manager or doing a terrible job of which no one could do worse. But considering the potential reward of promotion against what would take a Coyle esque appointment AND a fire sale I would suspect to create any danger of relegation, advocating a change 4 years into a managerial reign is not being impatient. The idea that half the squad would revolt and leave because Mowbray went is very much clutching at straws.

Totally agree that we need to stop defending goals but nothing about Bell's Rovers career suggests that he is a player to facilitate that.