The benchmark is so, so low from every other alternative we have available there that surely it is worth at least a couple of starts to see if a couple of chances is what he needs.

I find it bizarre that Mowbray has shown so much reluctance today in the LT regarding changing formation. I would understand if the Holtby and/or Dack injuries were short term but with them both out for the season and with no viable alternatives there, surely he has to come up with an alternative, most likely a 442 to cover the rest of the season. Sometimes you have to be pragmatic and flexible, you might want to play a certain way but if something prevents you there is no point sticking with it anyway. I think Mowbray does get a very easy time from the media, whether it be Rich Sharpe, Andy Bayes etc, he is never really challenged, the big money signings, the Bennett situation in the past, the wide strikers thing, never being in the top 6, he is always basically just given a blank canvas to say what he wants to say without much challenge.

Fear of replacement is a very good point, one I totally excluded. That, a previous promotion and not doing disastrously is a powerful trio. I dont think fear of replacement should be a particularly strong argument. If thats your main concern then you are just abandoning any ambition or hope going forward. If you are giving your opinion on what you would do, it shouldnt be dominated by that.

Very fair analysis. Most of our recent sackings, Coyle, Kean, Appleton and Berg were obviously sacked because of rank incompetence, they were clear cut decisions, the managers all had very few defendants and it was very black and white. With Mowbray, not only does he have credit in the bank from the promotion 2 seasons ago, but we arent doing disastrously bad, which has been the benchmark in the past. There are some very constructive reasons to suggest that Mowbray might well struggle to push us on and things might soon fall into stagnation rather than progression; imbalanced recruitment, an inability to spend any serious money, and not only are we not firmly in the targeted top 6, but we never once have been, so we arent a serious, credible contender for our season expectations. The recent injuries muddy the waters further as they eliminate any chance for the manager to realistically make that added push (something that hasnt as yet been seriously threatened) or alternatively prove without excuse that he is not capable of doing so, it creates a period of limbo where people can not be expected to withhold opinion but equally its harder to make definitive conclusions. With the promotion goodwill and because we arent in a disaster or a tailspin, quite a few people are not willing to entertain the thought of change and will perhaps be overly defensive about even the more illogical things that he does.

Very true. Regarding perception of the 2 managers, would it sound stupid to suggest that Mowbrays comparative reputation was actually benefited by failing his initial task of survival? That first task was more difficult for Mowbray and I am unconvinced that Bowyer would have been able to get us straight back, but Mowbray has always had that safety blanket of being the man "who brought us back" which he wouldnt had he stayed up. I dont agree necessarily with the suggestion that going down a league was a blessing in disguise but it does make you think. Mowbray had a chance of a clean slate, many of his poorer players at the end of their contracts and a chance to rally and reset against poorer opposition. Bowyer had to deal with the backdrop of many high earners with contracts, and had to try and reset in the same league. Its so frustrating that we never ever break even temporarily into the top 6, with either team/manager at any point. It has never been anything other than a long shot. You see teams like Reading and Brentford making it, and teams like Preston, Millwall and Bristol City bobbing in and out.

It is an interesting question, what team is better, Bowyers or Mowbrays? Dack and Armstrong are 2 very good signings by Mowbray, but youd take a 40 goal strikeforce in Rhodes and Gestede over them any day, half of which Bowyer inherited. Out wide, Bowyer appreciated actual wingers and Conway and Marshall whereas Mowbray has repeatedly ignored and neglected that area. He also had the additional flair of Cairney who again earned a profit and wasnt a natural wide but still had a consistent effect on games. Both managers had influential academy centre backs of not to dissimilar standard, both inherited right backs of which Nyambe is far better than Hanley. Both made good additions to partner them, Duffy has the edge minus the last couple of months over Adarabioyo plus we made a decent profit. Both signed cheap left backs, Spurr was average at best, but better than Bell. Both signed pretty poor keepers, Walton slightly better than Steele. Out wide is Mowbrays kryptonite, central midfield was Bowyers, he signed some right crap to go alongside his favourite child Lowe, Downing and Travis (a player Mowbray fasttracked) are far better there. Both had/have a teachers pet who was shoehorned in no matter what, bar recently when Mowbray has refreshingly weakened on that somewhat. Bowyer had far less money and his transfer record was far better but probably underachieved with the squad more than Mowbray, as any manager would struggle to compensate for the imbalances in the current squad. Bowyer accumulated more dross I would say (Brown, Varney, Taylor x 2, Akpan etc), but Mowbrays dross tends to cost money. Bowyer did better in his first part season obviously, but im unconvinced if he would have been able to rally us like Mowbray did. Tough call, prefer Bowyers team but feel more fondness to Mowbray.

Came in. Aim number 1, survival. Survival not achieved. Its black and white.

Not interested in excuses or hypothetical scenarios that you want to dream up. Move to different achievable targets. The neglect of the wide areas has been far longer than just this January window. The Chelsea player was a right back too which was odd.

Youve taken that from a conversation about something totally different, and ive acknowledged the difficulty of a task, but he failed that task. End of. Extrapolate away to try and justify an alternative view to do anything possible to justify your defence but he didnt perform the initial remit he set out to do.

After a brief lapse following a win v Barnsley, you have reverted back to literally just being a soundboard for everything Mowbray does. Everything is defended and twisted even when there is no logic to it so theres no point continuing. Mowbray failed to save us from relegation but then got us promoted. Cant accept the negative, only the positive. Armstrong has been massively improved but has a flaw that needs improving. Cant accept the negative, only the positive.

Yeah our attacking players shouldnt "obsess" about attacking duties! Armstrong bar one month had an inconsistent and underwhelming season last season. His recent good form has been up front. Antonsson had a bit of a temporary hot spell then badly fizzled away post injury. But otherwise its not just last window in which we have failed to sign competent wide men who naturally play there (Downing is best now centrally) and its really costing us now we are just devoid of options there. Yeah we wouldnt want to sign a player for example for 7m based on a half decent performance against Derrick Williams in which the team he played for lost 1 nil! I would rather we scouted players that we could afford and had the competence and money to complete the deal.

Feeney is a League 1 standard winger. Absolutely no goal threat and one dimensional but at that level can impact games with assists on a fairly regular basis. 11 this season. Sam Gallagher is not League 1 standard when played as a winger. Probably not League 2 as a winger. He is not a winger full stop and cant play there. Armstrong was offside 3 or 4 times and also there were a couple of further occasions when he was stood offside and chose not to challenge but in turn our move broke down. He needs to improve this area of his game. One offside isnt a big deal. You cant use a 15 game sample and stretch it across the season, it doesnt mean anything, it doesnt work like that and a few of the teams we beat including the last 2 had nothing to play for. He wasnt the main reason we went down and it would be wrong to suggest that. But he had a difficult job to do and he failed at it, just, thats the truth of the matter. He then succeeded at promotion next season.

I think Armstrong is not really suited to number 10, being on the last man suits his pace (although not his inability to stay on side) and out wide allows him to stretch the play. Playing as a 10 requires a little more subtelty but doesnt allow him to fully utilise his pace. I would like to see him next to Graham but not just off him.

You picked a different formation and different personnel prior to the game.

A very firm no to Bell out wide. Contrary to myth, he is not a good attacking full back and he has absolutely nothing in terms of crossing and final ball. He played one at left back in League One and was awful.

Peterboroughs chairman is an absolute bell end to be fair. Everytime he was asked about him especially after they kept him he was bigging him up, saying he was a Championship player so everything he does is a PR exercise. We can only see how he does in this League but he would walk into our team.

Weve been unlucky recently but for the first 23 games, we had all bar Cunningham (for half of that time) so one major injury which is hardly rotten luck and we never got into the top 6 during that time.

It will sell fast if you advertise the additional features including the outtakes of Sam Gallagher as a right winger!

He came in with a difficult task but he failed in achieving it. He showed enough to warrant continuing of course but all of this extrapolating of his results is flawed, it wouldnt work out like that, many of our final games were v teams with nothing to play for and the fact that we came so close baring in mind some of the results, the collapse v Preston, the dismal performance v Barnsley, the drab draw v Bristol City (all at home) combined with how close we came to staying up showed that it was achievable. He had a difficult task and he failed it. He wasnt the protagonist to our relegation of course. I think failed to prevent relegation is a fairer evaluation.

I would agree but we are currently 12th and I would be pleasantly surprised if that happened.

It all screams of conspiracy, its more likely a coincedence. There is absolutely no rational thinking behind our initial transfer strategy. Grant Hanley was a reliable staple of our defence for a few years, firstly with Scott Dann (big money) and then replaced by Shane Duffy. (bargain) That partnership was broken up at a time when we spent 250k all summer, and Mowbray took over soon after. He has chosen to spend most of money on 2 strikers, he has suggested before that he picks the players and explained his (flawed IMO) reasoning behind his signings, he also put his neck on the line promising defenders so I cannot start subscribing to conspiracy theories just IMO deflecting blame. For what it is worth I am not saying for sure that I want Mowbray out, I summised my thoughts earlier in this thread where i listed both the positives and negatives and if he went today I would look back at his spell in charge positively. I just think the doubts regarding his ability to use any considerable budget to progress us and also our inability to ever get into the targeted top 6 has to raise many doubts. I dont think people doubt that we are in better shape than when he joined. I think the question might be are we in enough of a better state considering the money spent during that time? You could change your analysis to be 1. Failure to keep us up in difficult circumstances. 2. Promotion. 3. Consolidation. 4. Potential stagnation.

The thing was, Bennett was particularly prevalent at a time when the club was in a promotion season, it was always positive, basically every tweet was a victorious one, its going to only attract positivity. The problem is there will always be a time after negative results that if you are constantly on social media, "we go again" etc whilst some will see it as a noble act it will sometimes provoke and antagonise fans who have paid their money and are hurting. I am not justifying it but with football fans (not just ours) when emotions are high this kind of thing does tend to rear its ugly head. I personally would be happy to see footballers come off social media but of course thats taking away their rights. I remember Shane Duffy copped some flak on twitter (prior to the very sour end) and you compare the 2, Duffy was a very competent defender that moved up, Bennett is struggling at this level. The comments about him being "Mowbrays mate" are because that, across various lengths of time, many of the League 1 stalwarts not up to this level, Smallwood, Mulgrew, Williams etc have been jettisoned by the manager, Bennett is very much in that bracket yet until recently, when tension with fans etc has actually eased, he was not only still a regular but he was just being shunted in what ever position was left and repeatedly proving to be a liability. As I said, Mowbray was somewhat sentimental giving Smallwood a chance but after half a season Mowbray deserves credit for promoting Travis ans upgrading. I personally understand and empathise with players reluctant to give up financially healthy contracts that they feel they have earnt but can understand why others dont. That said its easy to say when its not you. People appreciate what Mowbray did initially, to suggest that he is not the man now for us to progress doesnt take that away.

If there is any truth to the conspiracy that he cant sign defenders, he was incredibly naive to promise that they were coming! Ultimately, he was showered with praise during his most successful season. He has had plenty of praise. And he has been at the club for a long period of time nowadays so its a constant dilemma after a while of whether he is the man to move us onto the top 6/promotion target that he has set. When we have never once made the top 6 even temporarily and the main chunks of money he has had have been totally wasted, and the good signings are mainly the short term ones, you are going to naturally have people harbouring major doubts over whether he can push us forward. Ultimately a bad result or two is enough to remove any temporary cover over those feelings of doubt. Even when we are in form we never break into the top 6 which is why it is very difficult to justify that we are credible contenders towards the expectations the manager has set.

Id take Feeney over Gallagher on the wing any day and thats saying something. But its an unfair comparison because Gallagher is not a winger and has never had a good game there.

Would keep Corry Evans around too. Sadly Bennett, Johnson and Mulgrew will be nigh on unshiftable.