Is it not very harsh on Armstrong after 2 goals and 2 assists in 6 games to drop him? Especially at home for the much more conservative Bennett who did OK at Bristol City but doesnt offer much of an attacking threat. Its also quite a slow team. Johnson would be a harsh dropping too, but then I suppose so would either of the other 2. Thats an area whereby someone has to be dropped because of a selection headache of a positive kind. Graham and Dack have to play, as does Downing, definitely agree there.

Well it will just give players an added incentive to maintain their current performances if there is an additional threat of us improving the team externally which should always be a threat for a team trying to continually improve. As you say, we agree that is an immediate impact we need, cant see us signing more than 1 or 2 maximum, I just hope they can make an immediate impact. Definitely agree on the need to trim the squad, although its always easier said than done to get rid of players like Smallwood and Samuel who havent played any football recently and for whom only League 1 clubs you would think would be interested, but could they afford their wages? Would loan out Buckley who as I've said needs to toughen up and prove that he can impact games, whereas for us he weakens us at this present moment when he comes on. The likes of Rankin Costello, Chapman and Davenport could also do with regular game time elesewhere as they will only stagnate if they are limited to under 23 football.a Have to definitely disagree on Armstrong, he is far slower running back and often can be quite lazy. Look at goals away at West Brom and QPR when he ambles back with no urgency. Rothwell has actually been doing his defensive graft more lately.

Nail on the head.

Theres no point signing players if they arent an improvement on what weve already got. The signing we made last January has yet to start a game.

Yeah definitely.

Find Mowbray and Waggotts buzz word of "depth" and discussion of players not coming straight into the team a little strange, January is the month to sign players to have an immediate impact to push you towards where you want to be. We want players of first team quality to come in and improve us.

I know he did and of course he deserved the credit he got, I have never once tried to discredit him for that. I have never said that promotion wasnt the main priority, nor tried to discredit Mowbray specifically for achieving that. Mine and many others point was about something once promotion was already achieved, therefore is irrelevant to our point.

He downplayed the importance of the game and the title in the build up. He also made numerous of changes in terms of taking out players who were perhaps not at 100% but had proven capable of winning games in the weeks prior and who returned the week after for the last home game. To be honest my main curiosity at the moment is how numerous Rovers fans are showing total disinterest in winning a league title! Since when do titles not matter?!

Dack is a little nuisance who scores loads playing off a striker... (Not sure Gallagher is the type of striker at the moment who people "play off" like Graham is)

I think Grayson is out for the season isnt he? Not sure how we could predict that Rankin Costello is League 1 quality if not higher, doubt hed get near the Bolton side personally. If we had to release all of them players we would still have to pay them off so we wouldnt save all of that in wages. Although id like them all plus Mulgrew to go, I agrew with you, plus Chapman and Davenport are potential loanees.

People will indeed be annoyed if we slip up at home to a team who cant buy a win away from home, with us in the form we are in.

He played down the week before the importance of winning the league. He also implied that most of them players could have played if needed. I would have thought as a Rovers fan who clearly appreciates the historical side of the club and its past glories that a league title would have brought you further joy. It wasnt about the season so far, the fact that promotion had already been achieved is irrelevant to the point people are making.

Having something of a focal point in attack, Graham has been important and scored v Swansea and should be reinstated with Dack. But Armstrong has mainly played from the right was more the point I was making. I am not totally comfortable with tailoring our team selection at home to Wigan so much based on our opponents.

No we should stick to what has been getting us results, Armstrong will spend half of the game offside if we put him up front.

Correct. (You may be surprised to see me agreeing with you!) Caddis as wing back? Jack Payne up front and Danny Graham on the bench? I think Dack was genuinely injured but most players were rested and played in the Oxford game which was essentially a promotion party. Whats the harm to ask them to go again just 2 more times and try to win a league title, and how have we got to the stage where a potential league title can be dismissed! This argument that "ask if Sunderland fans care whether they win the league" is a totally strawman argument based on an inaccurate comparison. They are nowhere near being promoted, we had already been promoted. If they secured promotion with 2 games left theyd still want to win the league if possible. For me the main problem was not even that we didnt win the league. I think it is certainly unfair on Mowbray to not give him all of the deserved credit for the promotion and an overall successful season, but people seem to be taking the criticism as if they are saying that the whole season was a failure because we didnt win the league. The problem was that once promotion was fulfilled, Mowbray downplayed its importance, as if it didnt matter. At least to some of us, it did. Our aim is top 6 this season so I presume if we secure a play off place with a few games to go but 2nd place was still obtainable we could still down tools at that point because our objective has been achieved.

The answer of promotion is not valid to the question asked. Promoted was in the bank, secured, and was celebrated with Mowbray rightfully given plenty of praise. The comparison to Sunderland isnt correct because they have been festering for more than a year and crucially they havent already secured promotion. You can be grateful and happy about promotion whilst also criticising the manager for publically dismissing and thus acting upon the potential of winning a league title. The 2 are not mutually exclusive. We do not regularly win titles or even compete for them, so to dismiss it as irrelevant is bizarre. Mowbray did well overall to achieve the minimum expectation, and was rightly celebrated. That doesnt mean that he was justified for not going 100% for the title once promotion had been secured. The bug bear is not even that we didnt win the league, its that it wasnt seen as important.

We already have Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis for that purpose who are very competent players who improve us. Fair play to Buckley for that crucial goal but it had a huge slice of luck to it and otherwise he is totally ineffective. Get him playing regularly to see if he can regularly impact games at a lower level.

Are you not allowed to continue once your initial aim has been achieved? Its ok to forfeit the chance of a title because that wasnt part of the minimum expectation? I didnt even bring it up.

It was not brought up by myself, but the argument still stands that we should have given it our best shot to win a league title. If it is nit picking to question surrendering a potential league title, when promotion was guaranteed regardless, then yes I am nit picking. I have never argued that it we are not a better team or have a better manager than them, all of which is irrelevant to an 18 month old debate about the importance of league titles which I feel my point is still valid on.

The thing is, you are claiming insider knowledge which is all well and good but everyone else is judging based on what theyve seen for the first team, and sadly everytime that he has featured, he has looked well off the pace and too lightweight. I think from memory he has started twice, once v Oldham when he was totally ineffective, and once v Millwall when he was taken off at half time. He is a young lad with his career ahead of him, at a time when we are supposedly pushing for play offs and need every point, we can not afford passengers, It is not writing a player off to suggest that he is nowhere near ready for the first time and needs loaning out. If he can impact games at a lower level then of course re-evaluate in the summer.

To be honest, its not about stifling flair and creativity, rabona-ing that shot to create an easy save was an unnecessary waste of a very good attacking position.

Nit picking to not try and win a league title? We arent a club that wins league titles enough to dismiss the chance of winning them at any level. Where we are a year and a half in advance is pretty irrelevant to whether I wanted to win that title.

It isnt because trying our best to win the league has had no bearing on the situation that has unfolded since. Its not either win the league and falter or dont win it but do better afterwards. Even though Mowbray has us on the right track now that was a mistake, dismissing the importance of a league title was not the right thing to do. I would have enjoyed being there and seeing us lift a league title, but Mowbray wasnt arsed.

Never mind start games, hes nowhere near ready to be a sub for us to be honest. Your Tomlinson comparison seemed more to do with falling between the cracks of the subs bench and as a result no reserve football and I agree hence why I feel that he should spend the second half of the season in the lower leagues.

I dont think you can ever make a valid case for essentially dismissing a potential league title. Maybe it would dilute the feeling not being there to see it, I dunno. There was nothing to lose pushing for a very rare league title We are a better team now and id much prefer our manager but that is irrelevant.