Even if you inserted a capable pair of defenders and striker in terms of top 6 standard I still dont think we would have a top 6 standard team. Walton had very little to do in fairness today, Leeds were pretty wasteful I would suggest considering their dominance, but in general he is not up to it IMO. Defensively, you say 2, but none of our defenders are top 6 standard so youd still be short. Midfield, weve made some fairly high profile signings but still treat the ball like a hot potato, our pass rate today was embarassing. Definitely not a top 6 standard midfield. Basically the summary is I would say Dack perhaps is our only potential player who you could say is top 6 quality.

Out of interest, do you stand by the claim that the current group of players and a different manager could compete for the top 6?

Absolute crap, somewhat misleading score doesnt show quite how bad we were, again. You find out about a teams character away from home, we continuously show that we dont have any. Again im sure the manager will blame the referee, but we cant control that, where we can control we are sadly lacking. 50.6% passing rate is embarrassing, couldn't string 2 passes together, no attacking threat, no passion or commitment, bizarre subs. Looking more and more unanimous that Mowbray needs to go now, but sadly with disinterested and absent owners and his incompetent mate running things, theres no chance of that and we will continue to have to watch shit week in week out. Armstrong and Gallagher continue to make a mockery of the money Mowbray has blown on 3 awful attackers if you include the currently absent Brereton. Armstrong quite clearly cannot be arsed, Gallagher offers nothing either, but they both play every week. Dack again quiet although if anyone was going to do something it is always him. Downing bar one good corner was absolutely hapless throughout, his influence has been overstated, even in his good games hes little more than neat and tidy. Holtby a total passenger in the middle, Travis did some decent things but I think this season he has proven that he is a little overrated, even if he is our best central midfielder. Defensively, Williams not great, Bennett missing for the second and horrendous on the ball, Tosin ok for most of it but cost us for that first goal with some really weak defending, Nyambe quite blatantly not a centre back.

He did.

Why he was pulling out in that position I have no idea, but he still clumsily made contact.

Did you actually see it or just listen on the radio? I thought it probably was, either way, Adarabioyo totally bottled it, incredibly flimsy, cowardly, passive defending which sums up our defending as a whole, both today and in general. We have been absolutely horrendous. On the ball, we have been nothing short of a joke, it has shown the stats on screen at half time and our passing accuracy is 49%. We have had 26.1% possession. No one has had any composure throughout the team. Literally nobody comes out of that half with any credit, but Armstrong deserves a special mention because he has been particularly terrible. Not only does he do nothing going forward, he quite clearly cant be arsed and never does anything going back, regardless of what Mowbray says about him. The manager is again to blame, partially for building such a poor squad, no matter what people say this squad is never a top 6 challenging one regardless of manager, although the current manager is doing a great job of making them look worse than they are. Lets hope these comments look a little premature at full time but dont let the 2-1 scoreline fool you, we have been embarrassing.

Bloody hope not! Dack dropped?

Do you trust Mowbray to sign the players we need, out of interest?

Mowbray wont spend any funds even if he got any on defenders as we all know. Pantillimon is crap, theres a reason hes nowhere near Forests team anymore. We wont ger out of the bottom half with the likes of Bennett in our team. That implies that Venkys have a sensible plan in place. Spending milllions and millions on non scoring strikers is the plan.

Yeah we do, but doubt Mowbray will fix our defensive problems. All 3 positions you mention are major issues, a right back ideally too to compete with Nyambe and we can get rid of Bennett.

Seems a bit of an overreaction to pay that sort of hefty and random fee based on one game when hes underwhelmed prior, its a big if that he will now continue with that performance level based on what weve seen.

He shouldnt HAVE to start but I dont think hes any better in midfield. In the centre he should be right down the pecking order, hes not good enough on the ball, and even during a sustained run in League 1 he proved that he cannot offer anything like the attacking threat required to play out wide and justify a place there.

I dont particularly think that either are that good to be honest, Adarabioyo up until on Saturday to me has appeared rather flimsy, Rodwell was good on the ball but its no good if you cant defend. Thankfully he was far better at actually defending on Saturday, especially aerially. I think we have only kept one clean sheet with him starting and he came off after an hour on that day. Lenihan is somewhat overrated because hes actually willing to put his head on the line which has made him unique, but we did keep a few clean sheets consecutively with him at the heart of it, and thus I would have to say him. He has always been very rash and theres always a mistake in there though, and although secondary he is crap on the ball bringing it out, although his assist v Millwall was superb. I definitely think that with Cunningham injured, when Lenihan back our back 4 should be Nyambe, Lenihan, Adarabioyo and Williams, which is still pretty poor, but the best we have until January.

Thats a little simplistic though, your comments imply that Hudson Odoi and McEachran are of the same (or were) ability, as if McEachran would have had exactly the same impact had they got the same chance. Agree that a lot of it is down to luck and chances, but you look at your comments below, that experience that Graham has, knowledge of the game is exactly why IMO it is impossible to justify playing any of the younger but far inferior strikers in his place. Not all players develop that game intelligence at the same pace, or even at all. I think as a full back to be fair, you wouldnt be overly scared of either, neither are particularly good. That said, Feeney has apparently been on fire in League 1 this year, with plenty of assists. I wouldnt say Mahoney is twice the player that Feeney is at all, and Feeney as we all know is pretty poor.

https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/news/politics/quicktest/18019452.rovers-weigh-options-mowbray-explains-travis-absence/ “I’ve left him out for a few games, because he’s been poor with his distribution and was getting caught on the ball.” I dont necessarily think that as a standalone comment, that there is anything wrong with that, he may have a point. But he replaced him in central midfield with Elliott Bennett! Who cant pass wind. (Although if chaddy is to believe did a man marking job on Paul Gallagher that had Kante taking notes!)

I do think we have some good players, but with some of our weaknesses and imbalances, most obviously our defence and goalkeeper mean that even a manager like Alex Neil would struggle to get us into the top 6 IMO.

It was the quote that "the only difference between Jack Vale and a first teamer like Joe Rothwell is experience" which seemed a bit of a stretch. I dont doubt that Mowbray is perhaps over cautious with our youngsters, but the one thing I do think we need to look at is our use of the loan system. Buckley is the perfect candidate, when he features he looks lost IMO, he needs a loan spell in League 1 or 2, get kicked out a bit, learn through mistakes when to pass the ball and when to hold on to it. Our recent history of loans spells has been pretty poor, Wharton is a good example, you look at Fisher who I dont think has played a League game, I get that it can be very difficult to loan a player to a club in terms of guaranteeing game time, and there being a balance between getting them game time at as high a level as possible and getting them regular games, but we need to get better loans for our youngsters. Callum Hudson-Odoi is as good a youngster as you will find, and a special talent, whether he underwhelmed in one game or not.

Its a little presumptious to suggest that all a young player lacks is experience over a senior player, you look at Travis who took to first team football like a duck to water, Buckley in comparison has looked a little boy lost. Magloire last season was likewise. I think Hudson Odoi was regularly impressing at that level, one game isnt a fair gauge really. I think there is potential for Mowbray to try a few more, Chapman and Rankin Costello for example, I do agree, but there is a huge gap between kids and mens football.

Alex Neil is undoubtedly a top Championship manager and a vast improvement on Mowbray but as you say I think people overstate our squad. Goalkeeper is as bad as youll find in the league, defence is bottom half quality, including Tosin who before Saturday hadnt convinced at all regarding his ability to do the bread and butter. Travis is good but not a patch on, if you are doing a direct comparison, Ben Pearson, Johnson has been a liability, Downing is tidy but hardly the threat he was a few years ago, we are struggling for a goalscorer too, we have a few good players but its imbalanced and particularly weak in certain areas.

Not a chance wed get a fee that high for him IMO.

Do we really? Dack, the injured Cunningham and maybe Holtby aside, I am not sure weve got any top 6 quality players or anywhere near.

Rhodes' most prolific season here was his first when he usually played as a lone striker, maybe with a number 10. Was particularly good with Dunn I felt.

Again I think this is a myth. I cant really remember him coming on and having a massive impact very often, whereas when he was starting games consecutively last season he very much was having a massive impact. Totally agree on Buckley. As much as I was happy for him as a young Academy lad scoring on Saturday, I have only seen evidence to suggest that he is quite a way off our first team.

He did get a run last season and he was outstanding so im not sure that is a fair comment at all. He in that last 10/12 games regularly was a key player for us. He this season was undeservedly dropped at the start of the season despite this, with Mowbrays favourite Armstrong preferred. He has started 3 games, all in isolation, all away from home in difficult games.

No, you drop Bennett who contrary to what you keep saying did not do a Makelele like job on Gallagher, and play our best central midfielder Travis with another, Downing, Johnson or at a push Evans. The fact that you havent taken that as the joke it clearly was is funnier than the actual joke.