The thing with Dack is that he has a more proven track record of being able to score regular goals over a longer period.

Mount often played deeper and only turned 20 half way through that season. Different players but Dack doesnt get close to Chelseas team. But Benrahma? Watkins? Could argue probably Eze. Either Mitrovic and Pereira or a host of players for the relegated sides depending on who stays.

The most frustrating part about this summer is not the predictable fact that we clearly arent going to be spending much. Thats probably quite common. Its that we dont have a set up whereby Mowbray could have found that out after the Milwall game and been more proactive, even if it was sithout being armed with transfer fees because with coronavirus that has become a very saturated market. If only we had a normally run club by owners with any interest in what is happening. The problem is that we had big gaps left by loan players. We need a goalkeeper and a centre back, and obviously a left back too. Players like Morgan Fox, Grant Hall, James Chester, they are nothing special but they are decent Championship players for free. I would love to be proven wrong and see us spend a bit of money sensibly and get better players that those that I have mentioned, because they arent groundbreaking or promotion winning players so it is possible. But I have no confidence and little hope.

If you are of a mindset that we are relegation candidates prior to any new signings, considering that Mowbray has spent around 20m here and had over 3 years to build, then that would be incredibly damning. I personally think that we arent in threat of relegation, I think that would be a little overdramatic, even though I also have massive doubts that he can take us forward and would The one area that as it stands is a total curveball is the goalkeeping area which has been neglected to the point of us only having kids there. I dont have any faith in Mowbray fixing that area, considering his negligence bringing in Walton and letting Raya go for cheap to partially fund Gallagher, and would guess at a kid on loan which wont be much use. But if we are assuming that we arent even going to bring in any goalkeepers, which we will of some description, maybe relegation is an outside bet but even then, with some of our players I would suggest that it is highly unlikely. If the theory factors in the sale of key players which is possible, thats a different story.

Key word is "may."

Even when he did play, I feel like he was often underrated due to the consistent nature of his goalscoring. He would be a huge loss if he left. He often attracted unfair criticism when he went a game or two without scoring just because ultimately he had not lived up to his own high standards. Same with Rhodes, I think people sometimes underappreciate natural goalscorers. The BEST player in the League though? Very, very difficult if not impossible to justify such a statement. I also think that doubts are fair regarding his recovery from injury. Regarding Downing, my opinion was that I hoped that he would sign on for another year and I stand by that. It hasnt changed just because he might not sign, nor does having the opinion that it would be a shame to see him go mean that we should wait forever. Pinnock was very much the stand out of the 2 and his impressive performances for Brentford compared to Lindsays struggles at Stoke back that up. And no, if you have no time for other fans opinions then fair enough, just scroll past. I and others consider them a valuable source of information as to a new player in terms of how they are viewed at their previous club, of course not treating them as a sure indicator of what would happen here or an alternative to judging them in a Rovers shirt. I never necessarily said that I am sad that we missed out on those players. Mowbray now has to go out and get better than those standard Championship defenders. Although I do doubt that he will have the resources nor the ability to find them and get them here.

There is a massive difference compared to the refund situation. That was a situation in which the pandemic was totally unexpected. A refund would have reimbursed a small percentage who werent content/had no access to watch online. If people agree to a season ticket fully aware that the situation is flexible and unclear then they wouldnt have the right to say that they didnt expect it. There is a huge difference in the timing and any knowledge of the pandemic prior to purchase. As I said, there never has to be a refund even if the whole season is behind closed doors. Only a deferral of the payment covering next season.

Essentially those donations with season ticket privelidges down the line are the same thing! People would know that there is uncertainty. Even factoring in a quite frankly idiotic naivety should someone not realise that already, but it could be transparently stated in the release. You are making out that they are being tricked into it. And as if the club are purposely going to take the money and run.

What do you mean that we are kicking the club because "we havent sold twice the capacity?" It could be out of the current season ticket holders up until we hit a cap of say 20% (6000) or 25% (7500) when it is stopped. I dont think we would sell that many, say we sold 3000 at a reduced price of £250, thats 750k brought in of crucial income. And an amount that could be allowed in should the gates be allowed to open in October, or if necessary delayed, even under heavy restrictions. Seems a little disingenuous to suggest that people are unhappy because they have set unrealistic/silly levels of sales. Even a limited amount would surely be better than nothing?

But the fact is, you wont buy a season ticket until you know what you are getting, which is totally understandable. Other people are willing knowing full well that things are up in the air, not naive to that. Why is it immoral to allow them to do so?

The days of Best and co are not a valid barometer. I dont think we should be willing to settle for no ambition, just a team trying their best and no odious and disinterested egos. We have had that for a few years and it is somewhat flattering really that we want and feel like we can have more. The side is full of young players/academy graduates too. Lenihan, Nyambe and Travis are the first 3 names on the team sheet. The likes of Rankin Costello, Buckley, Wharton etc can be in and around it but we need some quality around that. But it is our Rovers. You mention teams gone by, they had sensibly added quality around them, to progress our young lads need and deserve the same. Disagree with your comment about the players coming on here and witnessing abuse. If players dont perform very well then this is the perfect place to discuss this and air those opinions. Good and bad performances in fact. They shouldnt really come on here, especially after poor performances, nothing could be gained from it. It does not wquate to knocking their confidence down. It is using a messageboard as the perfect platform to discuss good and bad points equally, and not jumped on if they say something negative. Because sometimes it is warranted.

I think the likelihood of the club going under in the next year whilst being higher than normal of course is still very unlikely in regards to taking the precaution of not risking selling season ticket holders at all. But surely that argument would lead to never putting them on sale rather than not at this very moment anyway? Supporters of a football club do have a different relationship to most customers with a business. I dont doubt your clear hatred of the owners, its one I share. It just seems so unlikely that supporters will not receive any reimbursement at all for their money due to an imminent possibility of the club going under.

The thing is, people feel obliged to financially support their footbal club. Indeed, I have seen numerous supporters complain that they have the money, because ultimately they would normally budget to spend at this time, and cannot buy a season ticket. There would never be a situation in which they would never be reimbursed, whether As long as that flexibility and uncertainty was communicated, as if those buying season tickets wouldnt know that anyway. The ideal situation would be the vast majority of the season (October onwards is the current plan) they can attend, probably as a reduced capacity, with ifollow links home and away making up the shortfall. Say things get worse and the whole season is behind closed doors. Well then theyve paid for next seasons ticket. It is totally over the top to suggest that it is morally wrong. People will willingly pay for a service they always do which will be completed as best as is possible, they arent fools and indeed are happy to do so. Not only to support their main hobby and the club they love, but to watch them every week as best as they can. To take a different view point, without income the club cannot indefinitely continue. Surely it would be even more morally irresponsible to risk current employees jobs? The main factor will be if it is a 1m or 2m gap. As a club whose current season ticket base makes up less than 30% of its stadium capacity, once limited capacity kicks in there is still plenty of scope for social distancing.

I disagree with that. Say if a vaccine never comes, do you think that in 10 years time, we will still be forbidden from attending football games? (The clubs that still exist) Over time, the virus surely will become less and less potent. It is also going to be impossible logistically to limit people from doing the things they love for so long.

My point is well summed up. Last week, Downings future was up in the air, we didnt know. You when quizzed wouldnt commit to whether you wanted him to stay or go. Now since it was reported today that he hasnt joined for pre season and doubts were expressed about his future, you have now decided that you would be happy to see him go. I presume you also thought that Johnson would be a good signing, and I also remember you not particularly being happy with the Downing signing. When a player signs or indeed is linked, it is natural to look at how they have previously done in their career, especially at their current club. It doesnt mean that it will 100% follow the same path, nor does it mean that people are wrong to highlight it. There can be varying reasons, whether they be tactical, physical, age based, positional changes, sometimes a face fits somewhere and doesnt somewhere else. Johnson had just come off a season in which he played regularly for the play off finalists and they seemed fairly sorry to see him go. A proven Championship performer in his early 30s. On the face of it, a good signing surely? No, he has struggled with a different style of play, he is as bad as ive seen in terms of a midfielder taking the ball off the back 4 on the half turn. Throw in fitness issues not helped by a long commute. 2 big reasons we may not have anticipated. Conversely, Downing was 3 years older, struggling at Forest, his contribution statistically had really dried up. All valid doubts to have. The tactical change that hindered Johnson seemed to suit Downing, as did the positional change to play him central more often. Maybe being taken away from the glare of the demanding Boro fans who had seen him break through over 10 years ago as a pacy winger helped him. The manager seemed to trust him more than Pulis, and also there were no contractual issues. Take Adarabioyo as a third example. He had only ever had one season in professional football, and West Brom fans didnt rate him at all. The main change has been that he has played in his natural position. Again, he has also suited tactically playing for us. That doesnt mean that people were wrong to doubt whether loaning in a player who had only ever had one professional season, that he had struggled, to be the fix to our leaky defence. We had no proof to suggest that he would turn out how he would turn out. Take Lindsay, I would be concerned if we signed a player who has had such a poor solitary season in the Championship, who Stoke (finished below us) are happy to see go, and who was very much secondary to Pinnock in League 1. Does that mean that I would be 100% sure that he would be a failure here if he signed? Of course not. But on the contrary, why are you so sure that he would be a good signing, to the point that you regret us not signing him last season, even factoring in with hindsight the poor season that has followed? So I am guessing that you wouldnt want Muric on loan and would be disappointed if he was our number 1 next year? All I would encourage you to do is have faith in your own opinions. If we arent interested in a player ot a type of player but you are disappointed that we miss out on him, say so. If we sign someone that you do not agree with, say as such.

Would Muric fail your criteria (only here for one season) and thus be someone you no longer would like to see here?

Yeah its all about flexibility. I dont think that under Venkys we will ever have the proactivity and creativity to do anything but dither and wait in times like these. They have the advantage of not having a season ticket holder base that exceeds even a massively restricted capacity. Other clubs may have to be more creative as we have seen with supporter rotation and capping of sales. As you said, its about keeping the income going, keeping the fans in the loop and keeping people in the habit. Ultimately (and unfortunately) the notion of designated seats will be removed in the short term due to the restrictions, so of course when things are back to normal, whenever that is, fans should be able to then resume in the seats they had prior to all of this. It also will require transparency. Remove the option of refunds in advance, worst case scenario is people (who understand that this may happen) have a season ticket paid for covering in a years time. Ideally, they get ifollow links (home and away to provide value, the away games could be key in keeping value) until they can attend again in the restricted stadium. Based on your suggestions from a few months back the vaccine should be here/almost here already. We cant place our hopes on something that cannot ever be guaranteed and will take ages to test and mass produce, even presuming 100% uptake even if it does come. It should be a case of restrictions slowly eased as much and as quickly as is safely possible, accepting hiccups along the way and potentially backwards steps in the progress.

I was more pointing out your tendency to base your "opinions" around what actually happens, without committing to an opinion until then, or what you suspect that Mowbray will do. With Downing, only a week or two ago, you refused to commit either way on the future of Downing. Now there has been an article with an element of doubt, you are very much behind him not being here next season. Because you wouldn't re sign him? Or more likely, because you dont think he will be here. Your point on Marshall has an element of logic to it, you dont want a short term goalkeeper. The inconsistency lies when 2 players in Muric and Iversen who we were linked with, you repeatedly argued the toss over why they wouldnt necessarily be poor signings. Difference being, they would DEFINITELY be short term signings (Marshall would be unlikely to sign for one year but even if he did) but they havent proven themselves, Muric has had one very brief unsuccessful loan spell in a minuscule senior career, the other has only played in League 1. Surely if you are going to pick one out of them 3 as a "short term fix" youd pick the one who had an excellent season at this level last season, who has proven his competence and who also has experience? Or are you just basing your wants on who we are linked with/who you think we will sign? Surely if we can only get a short term fix, we should get one who was a very good Championship keeper this season just gone, rather than gambling on a young kid on loan? I said a few days ago that I think that it would be very difficult to sign a centre back of the standard we need on a limited budget needed to cover numerous positions who can also step out from the back. And stated that the most important thing is getting that goals against column down. You shot me down, said that the 2 arent mutually exclusive and said that we need someone who can play out from the back. Are you, on the back of the local journalist suggesting that this may not be possible, now compromising on that opinion a mere few days later? Regarding Lindsay individually, I thought he was fairly decent on the ball anyway? And based on his short and error riddled Stoke career, "solid" isnt a word you could use to describe him. And regarding Nixon, who you are a bit of a lone ranger desperate to defend, he said we are interested in Iversen and within 48 hours, he was being unveiled by a Belgian club. His information was at best, massively out of date. The other 2, Hart and McLaughlin, Mowbray laughed both off.

The goalkeeper, not so much.

Roughly translated into "I dont have a clue and my last 3 names (Hart, McLaughin and Iversen) were way off so I dont want to embarass myself again by naming anyone. "

But they may aswell sell tickets to a restricted stadium rather than not at all. So I suspect it is between rotation of current season ticket holders or first come first serve. Rovers wont have this problem because we have a ground far bigger than the demand. The approach should presumably take a more realistic viewpoint that a vaccine is certainly not imminent and open up with restrictions, and slowly relax those restrictions until if and when infections start rising. Ultimately with the aim of eventually being back to normal again. And quite probably with some backwards steps (re-introduction of stricter restrictions) within that process. A vaccine wont come soon if it ever does so we just have to hope that failing a miracle cure, that the impact of the virus starts to massively reduce organically. It wouldnt be logistically realistic for everyone to live like this forever.

You wouldnt have to if you were transparent from the start and stated that worst case scenario, that payment would secure a season ticket for the following season.

Out of interest as a fan from afar. How much is the experience of watching the games diluted without the fans? For example, for me the overall experience is massively impaired in terms of attending, but I even found the away games I hadnt planned to attend to be surreal, almost like training games. It just felt weird. But obviously part of that may have been subconsciously for example that even if we had made the play offs, I couldnt go to them either. But the individual games lost importance.

The situation is shit anyway hence my thread on a total lack of excitement about the season coming up. But what else can they possibly do within a sadly very restricted situation? As I said, Rovers shouldnt have that problem so no excuses.

Seems very definitive? Sounds like the offer is very much on the table. You seem to have now moved from "unsure" to very much of the opinion that you are happy to see him go, now it seems that he might well be off...? Not good enough is very harsh. Definitely on a reduced role with a reduced wage if at all but still technically very good. Had a very good season even if he was a little off the pace post lockdown.