"Swallow their pride" suggests that loads of fans are not attending and cutting off their nose to spite their faces. The fans who arent already attending arent that arsed about going and will need enticing therefore your statement is absolutely meaningless.

Its about playing a way where everyone knows their role, and generating the consistency with a familiar formation. Sheffield United are the perfect example, played it week in week out and now theyve mastered it and everyone knows their job. No regular positional and formation changes. I have my doubts over 3 at tbe back for a few reasons: - Not convinced that Williams and in particular Lenihan are good enough on the ball, notice how Walton often waved them away preferring to hoof it to a small striker rather than pass to them. - There is no strength in depth at centre back, one injury and we have to change system. Nyambe isnt a centre back and the kids arent anywhere near ready. - I dont think it suits our attacking players, certainly not in its current guise. On Saturday bar a wonder goal we offered nothing going forward first half. And a goalscoring striker?

I would like to think that Holtby is more than "strength in depth" he is a step up in quality youd think on what we already have. We need to find a way of playing that works that we can play consistently. At the moment I feel like Mowbray is still trying to stumble across the correct formula, I dont think its a good idea to keep changing formation long term. For example, playing 3 at the back is a formation that requires everyone to know what they are doing, look at Sheffield United, they play it week in week out. Im not a fan of the "split striker" thing either. Theres not much competition! Weve definitely improved the squad/team, especially assuming Holtby signs. Mainly in the midfield area as well as a huge upgrade at LB. The problem is we are 15m down in attack yet no closer to finding a cutting edge and thats a worry that could let us down. And is the reason we cannot consider letting Graham go.

I don't think it is strange in that his quality and calibre I suspect is a level up on what we already have. The key question is how he fits in, because Dack is an obvious pick, and surely a player like Holtby will not be coming in to be sub. He played as a 10 for Spurs but is from reports equally adept playing further back. If he was to play in central midfield, then obviously Travis or Johnson would need to drop out, which is obviously a big call. I think Travis has to play, but I think Mowbray would be more likely to pick Johnson, that said I am not sure how comfortable he would be with playing 2 left footed players together. I suspect it is more likely that we will see Holtby crow-barred in out wide, ala Reed. It is important that we keep at least one player with pace out wide, ie Joe Rothwell. I definitely think with Holtby, Johnson and Downing to add to the mix, with Dack, Rothwell and Travis already here, our midfield looks far better than it does last year. If only we had the same quality up front!

Whilst I am unconvinced by 5 at the back. And I dont think Williams and Lenihan are good enough on the ball. (not sure Walton thought so either hence him ushering them away a few times to hoof one to Armstrong) But the main problem was the 5 in front, there was not enough cutting edge. When the wing backs were wide, there was never anyone in the box. There is no need for Johnson, Buckley, Downing AND Dack. Or in your example replace 2 for 2 other one paced central players. Need maybe an extra forward.

Obviously you have far more knowledge of his under 23 games as I dont attend, but he regularly scores and assists so must be doing something right?

The balance of that team doesnt seem right. It is too similar to the team in the first half on Saturday which was imbalanced and didnt carry any real threat aside from a screamer. We wouldnt score enough goals with that team.

Holtby has excellent pedigree and I remember him being very technically good at Spurs, would be a very good signing.

Im sure you are aware that I meant losing the first 2 games.

Theyve invited Pete in for a meeting which suggests that they are happy to listen to any ideas to increase attendances. Theyve then chosen not to implement any of Petes ideas, which is their prerogative, or in fact do anything at all, with the result being sales again below target. The onus is not with Pete to chase it up again!

Youve taken the debate away from me suggesting that Armstrong has had more than his fair share of chances, and hasnt performed effectively enough to warrant more before giving Chapman or more obviously Rothwell starts especially on the back of his form last season. I never said that they should be the finished article but I still am fully entitled to praise or criticise their performances in terms of continued selection. You are so insistent on making people seem like a pack of moaners that you miss evidence that goes against this. This is why your posts often seem to have an element of wind up in them. I praised the performances yesterday of Walton, the back 3, Dack, Downing, the wing backs and Rothwell. In the debate, you have been far more critical of Rothwell than me, as i have been over Armstrong with more evidence IMO. Its funny how different people see different things. I try and be balanced, I am very happy with our improved defensive performances, whereas I am worried at our lack of attacking threat despite spending a decent sum. Whereas you are either positive or understanding of why Mowbray has done something even if it hasnt worked, and keen to justify it.

Gallagher in our team leads to us playing a long ball style! When Mowbray wanted to play it out from the back, he dropped Gallagher for the first time. His style involved trying to repeatedly win headers. I do have my doubts that you watched him regularly enough at Birmingham to make such a judgement, but lets not make out that playing Gallagher is at odds with playing direct football. And now onto this myth that Rothwell "hasnt impressed much from the start." Its total bollocks. He started 8 of the last 9 games last season, including the last 7, and was very impressive STARTING games. If anything, you could argue that he struggled before this run of games to really stamp his authority playing little cameos at the end of games prior. He clearly impressed you because you predicted that he would be our player of the season this season. He was one of the real exciting points as we ended the season and looked towards this. His reward? 1 start out of 7 at the start of this season. Baring in mind that Rothwell hasnt impressed you much from the start, and baring in mind he was a unanimous success in his run of starts last season, and yourself was amongst those praising him, it is the sole appearance of the Fulham game where you have now altered your mindset to suggest that he doesnt impress you from the start? You are just using myths and fiction to do anything in your power to justify that every single action and decision that Mowbray does is the correct one. In terms of favouritism, Armstrong was pretty poor last season, he had one superb month but very few good games and very little in the way of goal contribution last season. Talent/attributes to work with, but not putting them together successfully often enough. In his last 13 starts and only 3 sub appearances last season, he contributed one goal against Bolton and no assists in the League. Add this season in, and its consecutively, 18 starts and 5 sub appearances, 1 goal, no assists. Rothwell ended the season far better, so is it fair that Rothwell is given only one start and is having to make do with small cameos, when Armstrong is given chance after chance with nothing back? And is it really that risky to give Chapman even one or two chances, even cameos, when Armstrong is regularly starting games, without scoring or assisting, and as shown against West Brom, slacking off defensively? Who would you rather bring on if we needed a goal from the bench, Chapman or Buckley?

The "problem" I have with Gallagher is that I don't particularly rate him. I am also not convinced that Mowbray has yet figured out how to get the best out of him; he played as a wide forward predominantly in a 5-4-1 towards the end of Mowbrays last spell, and was far less productive than he had been under Coyle. (Before anyone tries to, I am not comparing Coyle to Mowbray favourably in general) I also dont like your assertion that he has been "written off" because it would not make any sense for me to put my preconceived ideas ahead of judging a player fairly. I don't particularly rate Bennett and dont think he is a top 6 Championship standard right back by any means, but I praised him after all 3 of the recent home games for very assured performances. Back to Gallagher, as mainly a striker his goal record I think was just shy of one in four, so not too bad but not that good either. He then went on to have an even less productive loan spell at Birmingham and a year of not playing at all. I dont feel so far that hes offered a goal threat at all to our team. Hes quite ungainly and clumsy so I am not convinced he fits this supposed technical team Mowbray wants us to become, he is quite a powerful runner without being Rothwell/Armstrong like in terms of being rapid, he also should do slightly better in the air for me considering his obvious strength there. In terms of Rothwell, I understand and appreciate that his run of games came in games that were less important, but it doesnt change the fact that he was excellent and it was harsh to then drop him back out at the start of this season. Armstrong has started 5 League games, Rothwell only one, and has played less than half the number of minutes that Armstrong has had so your statement is incorrect. I appreciate the use of an impact sub, I am just not convinced that Rothwell in particular is best suited to that role. His performance level was very good when he did start regularly, and as I have said I felt it was unfair for him to be dropped back out this season. He should be put back into the team IMO, Armstrong hasnt contributed much at all over a lengthy period of time, so for me Rothwell should be given the chance to resume where he left off last season, with Armstrong not really doing much. Chapman also should certainly be in the squad, even if it is as an impact sub, he has made an impact for the U23s but it just seems a strange signing considering how he never makes a matchday 18. May I ask, if you repeatedly feel the need to insist that you will always side with the opinions of professional managers over your average fan, and are reluctant to state contradictory opinions, of course such a stance is fair enough but what do you get from coming onto a platform such as this? Which is a place for fans to air their views, opinions and suggestions on what they would do.

Exactly, making the initial post I was quoted about our fans giving Armstrong "shit" to be totally ridiculous. If hes not performing, by all means put it over the messageboard saying as such, as long as you support him in the ground, which people do.

My point is simply that nobody needs "sticking up for" or to justify not attending. The onus is on the club to get them back if it is possible, people who are former attendees or potential new attendees have not done anything wrong. Aside from cheaper tickets, both season tickets and matchday tickets, I don't profess to having the answers but that is not the point I was making.

And I think its pretty naive to suggest that the customer is the one with the onus and responsibility to buy a ticket, indeed it is with the club to sell the tickets. I get that football supporters are quite unique in terms of being customers but the onus is still with the seller ie the club and Waggott to maximise the number of bums on seats. No one needs excuses to not attend a game, football isnt and shouldnt be a chore. I am a season ticket holder and have been for a while but I am also not lacking in empathy to the extent that I can't appreciate that not everyone will prioritise Rovers like I do.

Fair enough with that assist, presumably that isnt amidst the statistics mentioned because it was in a Cup game so thats why it was overlooked, so credit for that. Albeit he did miss a penalty in that same game! You can of course assume that he is low on confidence but he is given far more slack than the likes of Rothwell and Chapman. If he is regularly contributing very little he shouldnt be given chance after chance to exert himself in games, with the other 2 waiting for their chance. His attitude is also questionable in my opinion. Mowbray mentioned in an interview last season that the reason that he is favoured to Rothwell is because he is "like a cross country runner going back both ways." It is something I totally disagreed with, look at the recent West Brom game for evidence of him being a liability going back. I have not written him off. He was electric in League 1 and he is obviously electric in terms of pace, and showed he could finish too. Since we have been in the Championship however he has not contributed anywhere near enough in terms of goals and assists though. I've got major worries about our collection of expensive forwards and as yet their lack of contribution. Armstrong I feel out of the 3 has the most potential, yet his goal and assist contribution over a long period of predominantly starts is a huge worry. Gallagher is the middle one, I didn't want him back, he has some decent attributes without being outstanding at anything, and doesnt offer much of a goal threat. And Brereton is obviously an expensive outlier at the moment. I also think that theres a myth that Rothwell is better as an impact sub. He started 8 of the last 9 games last season and was outstanding, scored 2 worldies of course and in general looked impressive and developed a really good understanding with Dack in particular. It was unfair that he was back on the bench at the start of this season, and has only been given one League start in 7 amidst our attacking woes.

I still perhaps naively think it would be counter productive to wave the white flag at this very early stage of the season. Their biggest asset at Bolton at the moment is that they are somewhat riding the crest of a wave in terms of their club still existing, everyone applauding a 6-1 hammering at Rotherham for a start. If they take the attitude now that theyve no chance and its time to look towards League 2 (especially baring in mind their senior players are on short term deals) then I would predict that much of that goodwill and buzz would fizzle away in the next 8 months and it would be pretty desolate ahead of League 2. If they go for an unlikely survival, get some good results but fall short, they could still have that buzz. Of course, one of Hill's main tasks will be balancing the messages of feeding the fans hope to spark a real atmosphere, without giving them too much to expect what I admit is pretty improbable. It would need play off form, and that first win would need to come soon, with 2 home games potentially giving them a chance. They would need that first win to be a protagonist in terms of momentum, but with healthy season ticket sales, and a seige mentality, theyve got some added assets in terms of backing. They do have some players with calibre. Darryl Murphy didnt play yesterday, is pretty old and possibly rusty, but hes a proven Championship striker, you'd think he can score plenty at that level. Liam Bridcutt again might have some ring rust to shake off but hes a competent Championship midfielder, you'd think him and Murphy or Weir could strike up a very good partnership at that level. They've got a couple of experienced heads at the back in Wright and Hobbs, and Remi Matthews in goal. And they have a sprinkling of flair, Verlinden broke through in the Stoke side last season, Politic is a decent young player and theyve been heavily linked with Graham Dorrans. I am well aware that it is improbable but I dont think its impossible.

I find this "excuses" mentality that fans take up to be totally bizarre, as if people have an objection to attend, regardless of price etc. The hard core are already going but seemingly you cannot grasp that the remaining people who could be tempted are not the hard core, they can take or leave attending, and ultimately it is up to the club to do what it can to prize them back. Your point about having a competitive squad lacks logic too. In that if prices go down, on the face of it thats less revenue, but only if you dont factor in an increase in quantity.

Didn't hear a peep at the ground, the players were well supported. If he is reading this messageboard then youd question his mentality in the first place, criticising a poor performer on a forum is not "giving him shit" its giving a player justified criticism for, over a long period of time not contributing anywhere near enough. A goal and no assists in 25 games is unacceptable from an attacking player who has started the majority of those games. Sadly, posts like these always get lapped up.

Im not saying our chance has gone, although I dont think we will get it personally. You said we are on track, but we are obviously slightly behind.

Aim - top 6. Current position - 11th. Creative licence used regarding the word roughly.

Of course you are. And I am allowed to question your opinion by offering my own. I dont think it is at all the best for the team. We scored neither of our goals playing it today. Dack is far less effective as a false 9, Gallagher is no good out wide either. Armstrong didnt assist any in the last 16 appearances of last season (getting a solitary goal against Bolton) and has no goals or assists in 7 this season. Even for a wide man its a shocking return. Its piss poor. Why is he given chance after chance.

Just heard on the highlights that Armstrong has 1 goal in 25 games. Really beggars belief how he gets chance after chance in the team, and Rothwell and Chapman dont get a fair crack.

Not sure the sentence is fair at all. Firstly, Bennetts performance levels have improved in the last few games, since the twitter spat he had with a fan and the common discussions on here about his performances really costing us. Also, this implies that the Ewood crowd wouldnt back him even if many of them didnt rate him. Look at the relief in the crowd when Brereton scored and the unanimous reaction of happiness, doesnt change the fact that most dont rate him. Surprised that you felt that Johnson was a contender for man of the match. He is obviously a proven Championship midfielder and has a lot of good attributes, but he was poor today IMO. Repeatedly giving the ball away and unable to take it on the half turn on quite a few occasions, which have been common themes in his time so far. I think he will be a good player for us but his last 2 performances in particular have been below par. Has also had a couple of notably good performances so it ties in with the consensus from Derby fans that he is very inconsistent. My main worry as I say is when the ball is played to him from the defence, he often has been caught in dangerous areas.