Im not sure Samuel is any better, that performance very much the exception rather than the rule.

In case of crowd trouble.

Very good result and performance. Stand by my comments about the team lineup being not very forward thinking but you cant argue with that result and performance. Walton poor for the first. Badly need a new keeper. Feel like Nyambe has gone back into his shell a tad, so reluctant to come forward. Rankin Costello with for me his best start so far although needs to be tried further forward. Overall we were defensively found wanting more than once to be honest. In midfield, Travis came into his own in the last hour. Up until then he again looked a little off the pace, that touch and pass was superb and then he was his usual dickhead self but in a very positive way. That being said, his foul was a clear red card, awful tackle. Also felt Johnson was much better today and Downing was calm and composed too. Graham showed what he can do that the others cant. Samuel was definitely better but should have had 3 or 4. Just hope that doesnt prompt a new deal, one swallow doesnt make a summer. Armstrong with an incredible goal and always such a danger even if he can be a bit wild with his shooting. None of the subs had any impact.

Samuel will seemingly get a new deal as he keeps playing him despite the fact that hes shite.

Absolute madness. No matter the result, what can we learn playing Johnson, Graham, Samuel and Downing with Buckley and Davenport subs, Rankin Costello out of position and Chapman left out all together. Using the youngsters my arse.

Would make no sense to play Graham if thats the case. So he probably will.

My point is even if some people would take them up its better than none in terms of cash flow! Its not difficult and doesnt require polls or economic information! As pointed out this isnt a first time and also they can spare 2 hours.

I cant believe your illogical and warped viewpoint. Whether it is 100%, 80%, 60%, 40%, 20% of season ticket holders that would take up the offer, its irrelevant. I dont know if I would to be honest. But if that % that would is above 0%, which it clearly will be, then it could be crucial cash flow coming in to the club at a time when it is really needed. Something is better than nothing. Surely that is common sense. The fact that everyone wouldnt be able to is neither here nor there, it wouldnt require everyone to do it to make it beneficial! For a bit of perspective, say a very prudently low 1,000 of fans at £350 a pop chose to renew their season tickets, that would be £350k of income, ideally straight up but likely a portion as a short term asset in the form of a debtor. Baring in mind that the club were so fearful of a comparatively small liability arising from refunds, it puts into perspective how still we are run in such a backwards way and why we are always held back by having Venkys as owners. Thats a cop out chaddy and you know it. We are or at least should be a big part of their life and a huge priority. If they cant spare a couple of hours of their time to do a conference call with Mowbray and Waggott then there is no excuse for that.

The fact that there are people like yourself surely means that its worth putting them up for sale just to get some income coming in?! Your logic is flawed, just because everyone wouldnt commit doesnt mean that those who would should not be taken up on that intention. This bollocks about not being the forefront of Venkys mind doesnt wash at all. If that is the case it highlights their disinterest which we know. But what sort of business owners arent arsed about improving cash flow at a time like this?! Do you agree that if you are begging loyal ST holders to not claim refunds, you cant afford be so half arsed and not try and get some cash flow in (especially when theres a market for dateless season tickets) however you can if things are really so tight. Also you have already now admitted that making the manager wait and not having any communication on budgets isnt good.

No idea how a club could accept being lower down the pyramid as a healthy conclusion. What is the point in the sport altogether if teams have preset correct places in the hierarchy where they should be?

The fans wont be there! Whats that got to do with anything? If Graham is going in 5 games time, which I suspect should be the case then why bother. Its not even as if he will get a send off in front of our fans either.

Agree with much of the team and the sentiment behind it. But not sure it is correct that Armstrong gets most of his goals from the left hand side. He started coming in to his own when being played in a more central role. I still have some misgivings about him as a striker to be honest, as good as his numerous goals have been from outside the box, I am not convinced that they are a sustainable source long term in that he needs to be far better one on one where he misses more often than he scores, he needs to add scrappy goals and tap ins to his game and he needs to be cleverer in terms of timing his runs to avoid offsides. All that being said, you wouldnt like to play against him, he does offer a goal threat and he does have that pace, going forward if we can keep them, he should be the 9 and Dack the 10. Not sure there is much point playing Graham from now on either. If Rankin Costello is more of a left sided midfielder, makes more sense to play him there. You could either take the attitude that Holtby will struggle to dislodge Dack, and maybe give him a couple of games from that right hand side with Nyambe overlapping, and play Buckley as a 10. Or play Holtby as a 10 and Chapman wide right.

To be fair, if you are watching a game which could end our play off hopes, I presume you are watching a re-run of the Barnsley or even the Wigan game! Yep Venkys are definitely not going to be logical. The fact that they havent even told Mowbray when he will find out about his budget suggests that they havent got their finger on the pulse so he is certainly safe. You mention disgruntlement but comments on messageboards and social media wont even be seen, maybe he is lucky that there are no fans in the stadium where he could have heard some moans and groans? Then again, I dont think it would have been much more than a few less bums in seats and a few boo's at this point.

I think ultimately you are one of the many who when a chairman or a manager starts talking about all of these attractive side objectives, fancy football and playing the kids, that you start lapping it up. If and when results nosedive as a result, with managers focusing too much on that preset objective of bringing in the kids through, what happens? Fans soon lose patience and trust in the manager, the chairman sacks him when results go past a certain point. The primary objective always is and always should be results. @JHRover brilliantly sums it up. If you can do it bringing through plenty of academy graduates, if you can do it playing attractive football, all the better. If not, what is the priority? Results.

The fact that hes totally in the dark about the budget to the extent that he doesnt even know when he will found out really shows how disinterested our twattish owners are. But hey, lets be grateful that we havent gone into administration!

What if a new manager came in and didnt rate those young players highlighted? Would he still be obliged to use them? If our next manager was told implicitly that he had to play the youngsters, and we dropped from mid table where we are currently to nearer the relegation zone, would you be like "at least hes playing the kids?" Would you balls, youd be thinkingvwhy does he keep losing. Its a load of rubbish. Perfect example is Middlesbrough. They had a manager in Pulis who focuses on results at all costs, style etc very much secondary. That being said, he didnt totally abandon the thought of academy players and brought Lewis Wing through, playing him regularly, and Tavernier on occasion. He went at the end of the season, people fell for the idea of passing football and kids throughout the team, they had players like Pears in goal who made mistakes but he had to play kids so their 1m goalkeeper sat on the bench, they dropped like a stone, had to get rid of the young manager and go and appoint Warnock who is right back to the Pulis type of manager focusing solely on results.

One thing that I would say is that id be surprised. Mowbray went for very much a conservative approach last year but had much more goodwill with stability being more acceptable following promotion. I remember that Davenport was fit but had to make do with just over a half on the last day when Bennett got injured. Chapman had to make do with a couple of small cameos. Brereton finally got his goal v Bolton then Graham came back and finished the season. Buckley and Butterworth got 15 minutes as a token appearance v Bolton. Self preservation came before proactive forward thinking last year. I suspect it might again this.

When clubs start being really specific with what they want, specific players being brough through, style of play etc it can often spell disaster. What happened to wanting a manager to get results first and foremost?

https://mol.im/a/8494817 Linked with another central midfielder. Wouldnt take any notice mind as half the league are.

Not top priority? That would be a pathetic excuse even for them. We are a Championship football club and if we arent even worth a couple of hours for a chat online telling Mowbray how much he can spend then they really are worse than I could even imagine.

That sums Mowbray up. Flirts with a formation but doesnt stick with it and goes back. How is that condusive to overhauling the tactical mechanism of a side? I dont think in any way that we have successfully started to dominate games in a way that also leads to us getting results. I also find only changing to 433 false 9 with 9 games to go totally bizarre. If thats the plan, start the season like that! And dont sign a lanky, clumsy 5m striker! Rothwell? Does any formation and style suit a player who offers absolutely zero end product? He looked even less effective in a midfield 3. What are the parameters you set? Is it as simple as less than 60 is regression, 60 is stability/stagnation and over 60 is progression? Ultimately the season is over either way so all these last 5 games are doing is putting a positive or negative edge on it.

Also @chaddyrovers do your recent messages to journalists on twitter and the tone of them suggest that you do now agree that waiting and dithering over budgets is detrimental and illogical?

Again you are assuming that the owners are emotionally invested enough to be fascinated with every bit of detail. If you want to believe that they are then fair enough. I have never been one who gets caught up on the style of football, very much a results first mentality. Its not a case of agreeing with the theory of it. I dont think it has been executed with any consistency, with any conviction or with any logic. His signings dont all fit the philosophy, especially the most expensive one. His attempt to create a unique formation only happened with 9 games to go and didnt work. If we finish on 60 points or less, would you consider this season still one that has been productive and progressive?

I think your problem is that you are viewing the situation as if we have normal, interested and knowledgable owners. As if they are thinking, we can see a progression, we understand the change in style etc. And as if they are saying well we will be happy with a top half finish this year as part of a gradual plan. Im sure that Mowbray sets his own personal targets and he is a man who does clearly care but he wont be held accountable by anyone but the fans if he fails to achieve them. I sort of understand why he would want to have more control over games but there are so many areas in which his actions make no sense or are inconsistent and illogical with such a plan. If he has wanted to play 433 with a false 9 and wide strikers, something that we both agree is a load of bollocks. Why has it only come about after a 3 month break, 9 games before the end of the season after a solitary negative result? At least do it with some conviction if you are going to do it, not from game 38 to game 40 and then ditch it again. You add to that, why isnt his transfer recruitment geared to enabling such a transformation. Why spend all of your money on a really clumsy and technically poor striker? And then mainly play him out wide? Why sign on big wages a central midfielder as bad as I can remember at taking the ball on the half turn, comstantly giving the ball away? Adarabioyo and Downing fit the remit more but one is on loan and one is 35, the building blocks to a tactical transformation? No chance. You also mention Waggott and Mowbrays relationship. Do I think Waggott holds a lot of power? No. But does it help Mowbray having a mate as a go between to the owners? Of course. I look at this season, over with 5 or 6 games to go, probably going to finish on similar points. No real progression on tactical changes. No real progression on our squad this summer compared to last. No 7m striker from last year having a break through season as promised. How is it progression?

I dont even think that Bennett is competent as a utility back up. I think to some especially Mowbray, the fact that he has played in numerous positions fools people into thinking that he can play in numerous positions. The phrase "jack of all trades, master of none" is particularly relevant. He once was an out and out winger with pace, he then got a serious injury which I can only assume robbed him of some of that. He had a loan spell at Bristol City where I think he played at wing back, the start of the post injury Bennett and he didnt earn a permanent contract. Even as a winger in League 1 for us, he was not effective and scored/assisted rarely. The fact that hes never considered for his natural position considering our lack of options out there says alot. He had that really good game with Smallwood v Shrewsbury which the pair impressed solely due to their work rate and energy. He carried on there for a bit in League 1 but never replicated that effectiveness. Then full back became the next place that Mowbray tried to fit him in which he felt was necessary because he is the "voice of the dressing room." This position particularly highlights his inability to draw the line before energetic and tireless become rash and unnecessary. And now hes not even playing on the correct side. James Milner is versatile. His intelligence and reading of the game means that he can play in different positions and not stand out as a weakness. Bennett wherever he goes will repeatedly concede fouls and repeatedly run out of position. Hes not a Championship standard player.