The whole argument is based around something we dont know or wont ever find out about. @Biz is right to suggest that compared to players who cost similar fees, Bamford, Waghorn and Grabban will be on considerably higher wages. I do think however that he has over-exaggerated his assumpton on how low his wage is likely to be. This is a player who cost a considerable sum and whose deal was reported to be orchestrates by an agent. Im sure he is on a wage very much within our wage structure but not at League 1/League 2 levels. The crux of the matter is he did cost a considerable amount and even if we only had 4 or 5 million combined with more competitive wages, its fair to say that this season, it would have been not difficult (albeit not a 100% sure thing) to find a player or 2 to have a far more signifcant impact on a season we are in touching distance from the play offs. Conversely, Brereton is meant as a long term project and as of yet ive yet to see the raw potential to suggest he will some day justify the fee. If Dack and Graham are missing next week, I would suggest that the stage may be set for 2 Mowbray signings (Brereton and Rothwell) to contribute to our season and show us what they can do. If they dont or arent even trusted to start then questions shall increase further.

To be fair, quite a few posters have claimed a lack of support behind Brereton witbout backing them up with quotes or examples, only stating they are not to be repeated on a forum. Your reasoning in bold is totally unsubstantiated however. I am not on my own in having expectations as I have repeated of him not to instantly come into the team and score x goals and take everything by storm right away. But to push Graham, impact games off the bench when Graham tires, come in when Graham is unavailable, and show raw potential of what he is all about. Accepting inconsistencies and frustration along the way. Quite modest expectations of an expensive signing with over 50 Championship games under his belt, as well as plenty of appearances for England youth teams. He hasnt even come close to doing that, hes not scored, I am still unclear as to what his attributes are, even Mowbray doesnt trust him over Nuttall it seems, who was destined to go out on loan. Quite interestingly, quite a few on here including myself have suggested that he was better than usual yesterday. Seemed a bit more desperate to impress, a couple of nice touches and turns, mind you absolutely no goal threat. If that was Dack he would have been criticised for being "anonymous."

A select few have suggested (without stating that he should be sacked) that they have doubts or do not think he can take us further, which I personally think is harsh. But that is exclusive from appreciating a promotion and the job hes done before, indeed even saying hes taken us as far as he can implies a level of progression to get to this point. There is always going to be a lot of anger when we surrender a 2 nil lead and lost 5-2, it takes a better man than me not to be incredibly pissed off at that. There are some blatant weaknesses that will need to be rectified that seem to be recurring ones under Mowbray this season before we can push for promotion in the next couple of years. The defensive side of our team is really vulnerable as you implied yourself, and he has used the vast majority Kalinic was a player I saw talent in, was technically very good but I cannot say in retrospect that he was anything other than a poor signing, albeit admittedly one who has since had success in Ukraine and then a brilliant season in Serie A, albeit his recent career at Milan and Atletico has not been particularly successful and his refusal to come on as sub in the world cup suggests maybe he has an attitude to go with his talent. Point was that its not just Mowbrays expensive striker signings that are scrutinised.

You say that as if people are not aware of that. Everyone obviously appreciates and is thankful that we have come a long way from the disastrous spells that we have had, notably under Kean and Coyle. Going forward, that obviously can not be the benchmark. At times in the past, effort and willingness were a god send when the club was mismanaged, now as an ambitious club moving forward they need to become assumed and only an asset if coupled with ability on top. Gone are the days when a player deserves a spot merely for giving his all. Under good managers in the past, again effort was assumed and their transfers, tactics and individual results were open to criticism. When Big Sam signed Niko Kalinic, he was as much of a talking point as Brereton is. Under Souness, a manager who won us a cup as well as promotion, his tactics were ridiculed when he started playing Dominic Matteo in midfield.

I just gave Mowbray credit for being the architect of a very dangerous attacking trio, signing 2 of them and getting the best out of the third. I have also been consistent in stating that whilst I feel like his transfer dealings have been at best mixed, he has pulled a few rabbits out of the hat but for me his best work has been with the players he inherited. I agree that Evans has been a different player this season and at the back end of last season. Graham is the obvious one, hes been a good player throughout his time but he seems as fit as hes ever been. I also have seen signs of development in both Raya and Nyambe. I have continuously stated that to get promoted was a good achievement and that we are meeting expectations this, but that isnt the end of my judgement. Even when you are meeting expectations, theres no need to cap ambition there, especially considering we are in the top half, not that far from the play offs. Your desperation to tag anyone who criticises any aspect of Mowbrays tenure as a doom merchant must be clouding your judgement.

The problem is you seem to be unable to accept negative aspects of his reign or criticize him at all under the umbrella that we has done a good job and are meeting, or in your opinion exceeding expecations. He has done a good job and ive never questioned it. Take in attacking positions, hes signed many players who to varying degrees, have had limited to no positive impact on our team so far; Antonsson, Samuel, Palmer, Nuttall, Rothwell, Brereton and Gladwin. We are reliant on the trio of Graham, Dack and Armstrong, which is an area Mowbray has done very well to get firing as it is, with Graham as fit and as effective as hes ever been here and Armstrong and in particular Dack 2 assets that have been signed for cheap with bundles of potential to improve and who are already incredibly effective. I do also feel that he has somewhat neglected the defence, and it shows in our terrible defensive record. I particularly worry as to our inability to see out wins. Because the points tally we have amassed is pretty impressive but just because of that, lets not gloss over such a primary reason that we arent doing better than we are at the moment. Mowbray has done an unquestionably good job but lets not escape the areas that need to be improved.

Out of interest @Biz away from debate on individual players. Do you have any worries or are you particularly critical of the fact that we have surrendered over 20 points from winning positions (I think it was 18 prior to yesterday), that we have conceded so many goals including more than 2 of the bottom 3, and that often when we get beat, the heads seem to go down and we get battered? (yesterday, Bristol City, Preston, Sheffield United etc) This doesnt fall into or concern whether you think we are meeting expectations overall, or going in the right direction.

He was 19th man last weekend according to Mowbray and he must have been in the same position yesterday, hence his shirt being up in the dressing room posted pre-match. Mowbray mentioned in his article yesterday about Bennetts long term position that he doesnt see him as a right back but he didnt/couldnt change the positions ahead with Armstrong and Reed doing well. It would have been interesting to see the team he would have picked next week, was it not for the injuries that I presume may force his hand somewhat. Nyambe has to be the first back in. If Evans and Travis are both injured, that would potentially mean Reed central and Bennett wide.

At the players and the manager for being 2 nil up before conceding 5. Just as he would have been pleased at the same players and manager winning 3-0 last week. Just because you think you are moving forward doesnt mean you cant be pissed off at a continious trend of collapsing from favourable positions. Mental weakness will prevent us from moving forwards as fast as we would like if it isnt sorted out.

He was ok today and far better than Nuttall but he offered no real threat. The desire was there and he did a couple of bits of neat and tidy play and one or two nice turns though. Hes simply going to have to step up if Dack and Graham are both injured next week.

Theres obviously a mental fragility and a weakness which is causing us to throw away over 20 points from winning positions, and cause us to surrender as soon as we sense danger, weve been hammered quite a few times with no resistance for a team harbouring play off ambitions. You look last year, once we got set we became incredibly ruthless and clinical, whats changed? Today was a 2 nil lead on the back of 4 wins so theres no reason for the collapse. Was it just that we had enough quality in League 1 terms that our mental strength wasnt tested too often? When things are going well the team spirit is unquestionable but thats when its easy to stick together.

Watched the game and simply an absolute disgrace. Mowbray bleats on about team spirit and having a good group which im sure it is to some degree but you wouldnt have them in the trenches with you. Mentally weak, collapse at the very hint of danger and I think thats over 20 points surrendered from winning positions which is quite frankly embarassing. Rayas is always a couple of games from a game changing error. Not a reliable promotion chasing keeper. Bennett is never a right back, I get not to change a winning team but Nyambe HAS to start next time. The other 3 defenders also very poor. Travis had a shocker and Evans was poor alongside him. Reed was ok first half and Armstrong a solitary bright spark really. Our reliance on Dack and Graham and the defence by those suggesting we were right to keep our powder dry in January may be made to look foolish if the pair are injured. Brereton was actually not that bad but he never looked threatening and Nuttall is not up to it, he seemed like a bit of a loose cannon too and his body language was poor. Conway another bizarre sub.

It wasnt specifically aimed at you, I just dont understand how Mowbray and Waggott seem to be paired together, when one has made a blatant difference in turning us around and the other I am still in the dark about.

We were on the up and already had started signing younger players (Dack, Samuel, Nuttall etc) before he came. Im not convinced he has made much tangible difference to that or if he is, I would like specifics.

Presume Reed also comes under the category "jury still out" then? Armstrong cannot be judged on his loan spell last season. Wasnt here long enough to be judged.

Again, I am unsure what gives Waggott a right to much if any of the credit. The main reason that makes everything seem so much rosier is results. Mowbray after a shaky period to allow the team to gel and adapt to League 1 had already started to generate a good run of results months before Waggott's arrival, indeed he joined either deep into or just following our run of 6 wins just before Christmas if my memory serves me well. By far the best signing of Mowbrays tenure was very much proving to be the catalyst and the whole mood had very much turned for the better. The things he can be judged directly on, ticketing a primary example, he is very much open to criticism on.

That last post was hardly a series of questions. Just correcting you that the groans you hear after Brereton does something wrong is the sort of reaction saved especially for him, and not repeated when anyone else messes up. Nor is it abuse. I also dont understand how a constant downplaying of any proper knowledge on what exactly Brereton is good at (based on not enough game time) can go hand in hand with such confidence that he will prove a success.

In regards to this issue, it seems Waggott is in the right. But I am still none the wiser as to why people think he has done such a good job. Can people please enlighten me as to what differences he has made as an individual. Bar his ticketing policies which I am very critical of. It is often said that "Mowbray and Waggott have turned around the club," to me only one of those definitely warrants being in that sentence. We was well on our way back (I think in the midst of a 6 game winning run and starting to really fire) before Waggott stepped foot in Ewood Park. Mowbray is the reason behind our up turn, not Mowbray and Waggott.

"I am merely pointing out that moaning/groaning is an example of NOT being behind a player. and ... However, if you can't hear the overall noise whenever he makes a mistake, loose pass, loses possession - id suggest getting some hearing aids - and if you think all 19 year old lads have thick skin for that - you'd be wrong." Im going to focus on these 2 quotes. If you feel that considers not being behind Brereton, and you think that is a reaction saved specially for Brereton, then I will have to strongly disagree. Whenever anyone makes a mistake, or does something wrong that impacts negatively on our team, the natural, impulsive reaction is to be frustrated. If you think that only applies to Brereton then you are sadly mistaken, the only reason almost everything he does seems to cause frustration is because sadly much of what he does has not come off. For example, when he had a very presentable chance against Newcastle and skewed it out for a throw in, But likewise, when Dack missed that sitter in extra time, the golden boy would have been "subjected" to the exact same sort of reaction. When Raya decided to run stupidly out of his goal and ended up giving away a penalty against Birmingham, the same reaction. Its just a normal reaction, one of frustration, seen at every single ground, I'm watching Spurs now and Lucas Moura just headed a sitter wide, que groans. If you consider groans when Brereton makes a mistake to be "not being behind him" then you are totally wrong. In fact, the applause he got (that you seem to now be considering as to whether it was relief and sarcasm, it wasnt and Brereton didnt think it was hence him embracing it and turning round to clap all stands as he went off) is an example that the fans are behind him like anyone else. If the fans did something other than warmly applaud him, then because it wasnt on the back of a miss, a bad touch, a misplaced pass, it would have been far more pre-meditated and you would have had a point. "To summarise what I said about his ability, the key part; - its too early to say exactly what he has or hasn't." - you have to be fair suggested you cant be certain that he will be a success. But you seem pretty sure that you think he will be, but what tangible evidence or reasoning do you have to support this? "Looks to strike a ball well (see preston/bournemouth disallowed goals) can run with the ball, looks strong, and gets into the right positions largely" - to be fair the 2 finishes you mention were smart ones but his last 2 presentable chances have ended up for an opposition throw in. But I totally disagree that he gets into the right positions. He rarely gets into goalscoring positions, and when players have had the ball wide, I've repeatedly been frustrated by his reluctance to get into the box. Contrast to Nuttall, he has an obvious knack of getting into the right positions, and its night and day between the 2. I also disagree that he looks strong, for me he is incredibly weak and needs to improve that side of things in the gym. I do suspect that his game is based on running with the ball, I have seen flickers that its were his strengths lie, so I can give you that. And I dont think his lack of desperation to impress in terms of not chasing down, not jumping for headers, things like that can really be tolerated. "if you read back, I also said I think he is second guessing most things at the moment, being used out of position and not quite up to the intensity that TM wants." - the out of position line has worn a bit thin in that, bar the Newcastle game, the majority of his game time in the last couple of months has been in a central role. Strangely, when Mowbray said he doesnt see him as a striker yet, from that moment I noticed that he seemed to be used centrally far more often. I was at Bramall Lane and didnt see anything of the sort, but he started that game so wasnt warming up on the touchline!

As an aside, I dont understand anyone who goes to a football match and choosing to view it behind a little screen but there you go.

Out of curiosity. Do you ever moan or swear to your mate if one of our players misses a good chance or makes a mistake? As a natural reaction, "for fucks sake" "hows he missed that" etc etc. Not audible to the players, just at talking loudness? I cant comment on these supposed sick comments seeing as you wont even suggest what exactly they are.

You wouldnt be banned if it was a quote and any swearing was asterixed out. What did you hear? And by how many?

Depends what you consider to be "behind him." If its someone calling Brereton shit to their mate alongside them, thats not abuse. If its someone or some people groaning when a shot or a touch goes wrong, again thats not abuse. Him going off 5 minutes after skewing a shot out for a throw in, would surely be the perfect time to show a player they have not got the backing of the fans. Warm applause suggest that he does. As @Stuart says you will get the odd idiot everywhere but that doesnt represent the whole fan base. Why have you not replied to my earlier post to you about the attributes he has shown, about actual constructive analysis of the player? Same reply applies to @chaddyrovers.

At games, people get behind everyone. He'd be easier to warm to still if he gave every drop. Lets hope his Rovers career takes off but we can only judge on what weve seen.

Thanks for the tangible attributes you feel he has. To be honest, I have yet to see evidence of most of it, His first touch is really loose, and I can only recall his disallowed goal at Deepdale as evidence of good technique. He rarely gets into goalscoring positions and the last 3 shots I recall him having are a totally misjudged free header and 2 shots that went out for a throw in. I wouldnt describe him as quick but I do suspect that if there is an area to build around, he does seem to want to travel with the ball. Alot of patience is wittled away when the work rate is questionable too.