Dont think theres any doubt that Raya isnt at times error prone and eccentric. That being said, hes certainly more talented than Walton and trading a permanent keeper for a loan keeper only compounds the situation. I think the quality of the Championship this season is low in general and thats certainly the case with the goalkeepers, theres some really error prone ones even at the top of the League.

But they didnt need a reality check when they wanted McCarthy out for "only" having them in mid table in the Championship?!

Suspect that its pretty standard nowadays to be fair.

Them players werent particularly big losses though so its hardly dealing with difficult circumstances. I found it a strange appointment based solely on sentiment, a novice who is local and a former player, and nothing that has happened since has changed my mind on the subject.

The budget certainly hasnt been cut enough to justify dropping 11 places, they lost Downing who couldnt start games any more due to a contractual clause, they sold Flint who was shocking and they lost Mikel who wasnt there very long

Whatever his reasons and excuses are, you cant give a 5m striker 6 or more out of 10 if hes only scored 2 goals in 20 games. Giving his all is a minimum requirement. We have been through the fact that some of the onus regarding chance creation revolves around the attacker and his movement and anticipation, hence why Dack can score regularly in the same set up. 12 teams have conceded more goals than us, so only half the league. But I think our defence has been better this season, but our defensive record would be even better had Walton not made major errors v Preston, Huddersfield, Sheffield Wednesday, Barnsley and Stoke off the top of my head. Hes done a few good things too but 5/10 is fair IMO. Again, yes that may be part of the reason but that doesnt change the fact that he has not met expectations so far.

Wage considerations are a big part of it, I am sure you would have agreed had it been a Murphy or an Etuhu stuck on huge wages, that said Chapman was signed in January. I dont know how you could give Gallagher at least a 6. Hes our big money signing and has 2 goals in 20 games. More often than not he has been ineffective. Cunningham would get a 5 from me, his quality would have made him far higher than that had he not been injured shortly into his 8th game, including one major error at West Brom, this one is very unfortunate. Walton has made numerous major errors, and Johnson has arguably been the biggest disappointment considering his track record. Holtby is our highest calibre signing but still no closer to finding his place in our team for all of his quality. All 5's for me. As you imply, cant argue with the analysis on Adarabioyo and Downing.

And a new manager.

I would argue that the physical demands actually decrease the further down you go, the better the players towards the top of the pyramid, the faster the games are and the better athletes. It just becomes technically much worse, you get worse pitches etc so you might see more direct football at times but it is up to Buckley to show he can impact games in the lower leagues. But there is no point him playing in the Conference as even if he excelled there it wouldnt really do much to suggest he could come back and contribute. The problem is where he is at the minute is on the bench, not playing regular football, and when he plays first team football at this stage he isnt up to it. We cant really afford to keep drip feeding him minutes for experience if it potentially jeopardises our chances, which for me it will as he is well below the standard elsewhere. As well as that, such limited game time could cause stagnation. The key has to be finding a team in League 1 or if necessary League 2 who obviously cant guarantee him regular football as no one can but where he is likely to get game time as much as possible. Our recent history of loaning out players isnt particularly good though.

I dont think he would get regular football at a top half League 1 side if I am honest. I definitely wouldnt send him to the Conference but he definitely needs game time, part of his education will involve toughening up and becoming more robust. Theres no use keeping him for the second half of the season as kids football isnt what he needs and we cant afford to carry him whilst he develops at this stage as hes not good enough to contribute at the same level as his team mates at the moment.

Is it not very harsh on Armstrong after 2 goals and 2 assists in 6 games to drop him? Especially at home for the much more conservative Bennett who did OK at Bristol City but doesnt offer much of an attacking threat. Its also quite a slow team. Johnson would be a harsh dropping too, but then I suppose so would either of the other 2. Thats an area whereby someone has to be dropped because of a selection headache of a positive kind. Graham and Dack have to play, as does Downing, definitely agree there.

Well it will just give players an added incentive to maintain their current performances if there is an additional threat of us improving the team externally which should always be a threat for a team trying to continually improve. As you say, we agree that is an immediate impact we need, cant see us signing more than 1 or 2 maximum, I just hope they can make an immediate impact. Definitely agree on the need to trim the squad, although its always easier said than done to get rid of players like Smallwood and Samuel who havent played any football recently and for whom only League 1 clubs you would think would be interested, but could they afford their wages? Would loan out Buckley who as I've said needs to toughen up and prove that he can impact games, whereas for us he weakens us at this present moment when he comes on. The likes of Rankin Costello, Chapman and Davenport could also do with regular game time elesewhere as they will only stagnate if they are limited to under 23 football.a Have to definitely disagree on Armstrong, he is far slower running back and often can be quite lazy. Look at goals away at West Brom and QPR when he ambles back with no urgency. Rothwell has actually been doing his defensive graft more lately.

Nail on the head.

Theres no point signing players if they arent an improvement on what weve already got. The signing we made last January has yet to start a game.

Yeah definitely.

Find Mowbray and Waggotts buzz word of "depth" and discussion of players not coming straight into the team a little strange, January is the month to sign players to have an immediate impact to push you towards where you want to be. We want players of first team quality to come in and improve us.

I know he did and of course he deserved the credit he got, I have never once tried to discredit him for that. I have never said that promotion wasnt the main priority, nor tried to discredit Mowbray specifically for achieving that. Mine and many others point was about something once promotion was already achieved, therefore is irrelevant to our point.

He downplayed the importance of the game and the title in the build up. He also made numerous of changes in terms of taking out players who were perhaps not at 100% but had proven capable of winning games in the weeks prior and who returned the week after for the last home game. To be honest my main curiosity at the moment is how numerous Rovers fans are showing total disinterest in winning a league title! Since when do titles not matter?!

Dack is a little nuisance who scores loads playing off a striker... (Not sure Gallagher is the type of striker at the moment who people "play off" like Graham is)

I think Grayson is out for the season isnt he? Not sure how we could predict that Rankin Costello is League 1 quality if not higher, doubt hed get near the Bolton side personally. If we had to release all of them players we would still have to pay them off so we wouldnt save all of that in wages. Although id like them all plus Mulgrew to go, I agrew with you, plus Chapman and Davenport are potential loanees.

People will indeed be annoyed if we slip up at home to a team who cant buy a win away from home, with us in the form we are in.

He played down the week before the importance of winning the league. He also implied that most of them players could have played if needed. I would have thought as a Rovers fan who clearly appreciates the historical side of the club and its past glories that a league title would have brought you further joy. It wasnt about the season so far, the fact that promotion had already been achieved is irrelevant to the point people are making.

Having something of a focal point in attack, Graham has been important and scored v Swansea and should be reinstated with Dack. But Armstrong has mainly played from the right was more the point I was making. I am not totally comfortable with tailoring our team selection at home to Wigan so much based on our opponents.

No we should stick to what has been getting us results, Armstrong will spend half of the game offside if we put him up front.

Correct. (You may be surprised to see me agreeing with you!) Caddis as wing back? Jack Payne up front and Danny Graham on the bench? I think Dack was genuinely injured but most players were rested and played in the Oxford game which was essentially a promotion party. Whats the harm to ask them to go again just 2 more times and try to win a league title, and how have we got to the stage where a potential league title can be dismissed! This argument that "ask if Sunderland fans care whether they win the league" is a totally strawman argument based on an inaccurate comparison. They are nowhere near being promoted, we had already been promoted. If they secured promotion with 2 games left theyd still want to win the league if possible. For me the main problem was not even that we didnt win the league. I think it is certainly unfair on Mowbray to not give him all of the deserved credit for the promotion and an overall successful season, but people seem to be taking the criticism as if they are saying that the whole season was a failure because we didnt win the league. The problem was that once promotion was fulfilled, Mowbray downplayed its importance, as if it didnt matter. At least to some of us, it did. Our aim is top 6 this season so I presume if we secure a play off place with a few games to go but 2nd place was still obtainable we could still down tools at that point because our objective has been achieved.