Glad that pre-season is finished and the next game is the serious stuff. Feel like the start of the season is critical, weve started really poorly in the last 2 seasons; Mowbray spoke with a lot of regret about the lack of challenge in the last pre-season and how it led to the bad start, so I hope this seasons has proved more beneficial. The first 6 games are key in my opinion, more than usual as we need to prolong the momentum built from promotion, and the first 6 fixtures are quite favourable, so I would hope we could target double figures in our points return from these games. We need a few new additions but thats nothing we dont know, they need to be ASAP though, not at the end of the loan window.

Nah. Tomlin too similar to what we already have. Pilkington not the type of player we need either, too slow to give us anything different. Bogle just shite.

I cant remember when we had "fantastic games" under it to be honest, and statistically we were better playing as a four, as it suits our players better. I personally think we will start the season in a 4-2-3-1, and I hope it offers us the same success that it did last year. Its a myth that there are no wingers out there who like to get chalk on their boots. I provided a list of wingers at this level who like to get wide and stretch the play. We would be in a minority if we went into the season without a natural winger. I felt that Chapman was always more of a threat on the right personally, when he was on the left his pace could be nullified more easily. Again, I appreciate the comments about fluidity within attacking positions. And also about the different roles the wider attacking midfielders can play, in particular in the 4-2-3-1 that I hope we play, due to previous successes. Naturally more central attacking midfielders such as Palmer (and Payne last year), natural strikers such as Samuel (and Armstrong and Antonsson last year) and also more defensively minded wingers such as Bennett. (who I think needs to do a lot more going forward than he did last year, when he didnt offer enough) However, having said all that, I feel we will be missing a lot by not having 1 or 2 natural wingers within our armoury. There will be plenty of times when a combination of 2 of Palmer, Rothwell, Samuel, Bennett and Conway will lead to us being predictable.

What? My point was, Mowbray played 4-2-3-1 for the majority of last season when we got 96 points. We tried 3 at the back a couple of times and he reverted back to 4 straight away each time. I never said Mowbray made any mistakes against Everton. My point was that it was the first time in pre season that the players were playing 90 minutes, and he picked his strongest available team. He chose to pick said strongest team in a 4-2-3-1 formation. Suggesting thats his first choice formation, potentially anyway. The players all looked comfortable and knew their role, and it was only a friendly but they all look very well drilled. The points I made about Mulgrew, Nyambe and Bell were all hypothetical. Reasons why I personally think the 3 at the back formation doesnt suit our current squad. Either youve totally misunderstood my point, or that response has totally confused me. I wasnt criticising Mowbray, I was responding to posters who suggest that they think we will play 3 at the back, saying that I dont think we should. I also expect, especially after yesterdays game, that Mowbray will start the season playing 4-2-3-1. My post was in no way criticising Mowbray.

Not sure on Rothwell, think he is more attacking. That said, agreed with Davenport and Whittingham also options.

Front 4 would be excellent. Lovely mix to it. Smallwood and Evans central for me though.

He played in both formations I believe. Equally comfortable as a full back or wing back. The reasons that I dont want us to play 3 at the back are as follows: - We had far more success under 4 at the back last season, was a big part of our 18 match unbeaten run, please see below article for evidence: https://roverschat.com/will-three-be-the-magic-number/ - I feel it doesnt suit quite a few of our players, please see my post above. - I feel like 3 at the back is quite an advanced formation that is not suitable to be alternated with another, rather a formation that a team needs to be expertly and continuously drilled on.

I definitely agree with you on how players can actually take their games up a level when they play in positions that arent at that point where they are best known. We signed Armstrong last season as a striker and I would argue that playing wide actually benefited him, and I would consider him a winger more than a centre forward now. (although that may have been the balance of him, Dack and Graham that caused it to be so successful) I agree with your examples as well, I have always been firmly of the opinion that both are far more suited to defence. However, my point was more aimed at how if you have the freedom of the transfer market, it would make little sense that when theres a specific position that you are looking for, ie winger, that if you can only sign one player, you sign a player who naturally plays in a different position, but "can" play in the position you need. Thats why my appraisal on the Palmer signing, a player who I definitely rate quality wise, is partially dependant on who else accompanies him in before the window closes. If its Palmer AND a winger and striker, then id be very happy, if it wasnt, then id be puzzled. A good example of that is last season at Everton. They signed 3 number 10s, Sigurdsson, who can also play left, Rooney, who can also play as a striker, and Klassen, who can also play deeper in central midfield. Everyone praised them for the 3 signings, who took up the majority of the budget. They tried to get Rooney and Sigurdsson at least in the same team, but with no width or focal point after Lukaku had left, their imbalanced squad struggled before Big Sam signed Walcott, got Bolasie back and signed Tosun. Dack, Palmer and Rothwell might seem like a case of you can never have too much quality, but only if signing all of these at once isnt at the cost of the balance of the rest of the attack.

I can imagine I wont be the only frustrated fan if he reverts from a successful formation to one that in the main, had more questions than answers last season. Last night was the first time Mowbray could play what he considered to be his best team, and he played 4-2-3-1, so im hoping he has learnt from his mistakes. Bell is a left back, he was playing there at Fleetwood. Equally capable as a wing back granted but hardly proof that hes the catalyst for reverting to 3 at the back. He played Bennett at full back last season because Nyambe was injured, and at full back, not wing back so thats a strange example. Nyambe is never a wing back in a million years. Hes suited to full back as hes far better defensively than he is going forward. Mulgrew would be the middle of the 3, therefore the least able to step out. When we played it the other season he was on the left which gave him license to move out knowing there was a defender in the middle as cover. Lenihan is not a ball playing defender by any means and neither is Williams so im not sure they are suited to that formation either. Otherwise, we should play 3 at the back...

Im personally very hopeful that we stick to the 4-2-3-1 formation that has seen us well throughout last season. Our attempts at playing 3 at the back with the current personnel have been unsuccessful and I would hope that Mowbray sticks with the system that has proven itself to suit our current team.

Assuming Kasey Palmer will be playing wide, big assumption but Dacks obviously not gonna change position. Im not convinced that hes gonna do much tracking back, not naturally anyway. I do agree that there will be times for a wide player whose more defensive than attacking, Bennett predominantly, but even if its to compete with Palmer as the third attacking option in a side with Dack and Graham, I feel its always wise to have at least one option of natural width. That said, I hope the handbrake is released to an extent and Palmer isnt handled with the same gloves that Chapman and Payne were last season, seen solely as an impact sub.

Kasey Palmers natural position is as a number 10 chaddy. I saw him quite a few times for Huddersfield, usually flanked by wingers such as Van La Parra and Kachunga, obviously they were on TV a lot as they were battling for promotion, and he scored from that position at Ewood I remember. I am not a fan of playing players out of positions when it can be helped, and I hope that Palmer is not seen as the winger we have been rumoured to be after, as he isnt one. I can see him being effective from say the left cutting in and linking with Dack, but only if whoevers on the other side gives us more width to compensate, a direct winger. He can play wide but it is not his natural position, he is not going to be as effective there, its not a difficult concept to understand. And I never said he isnt a good signing so no need for that comment. Take on board your point Paul about the fluidity within them 3 attacking positions, but if you put 3 players together who all want to come inside for example, they can get into each others space and it can be counter-productive. Natural width and pace gives you that alternative if there is no space in the middle.# You both used the phrase "can play," Mulgrew and Lenihan can play central midfield, Bennett can play at right back, Williams can play at centre back, at a push Dack could play wide, but youve seen that you dont get the best out of any of those players in them positions. Disagree on there not being any natural wingers any more, albeit maybe they are not quite as common, I still feel width is just as crucial now as ever. We had a winger last season in Chapman. In the Championship, there is Albert Admoah, Yanic Wildshut, Hakeeb Adelakun, Florian Jozefzoon, Harry Wilson, Tom Ince, James McLean, Adama Traore, Jacques Maghoma, Kamil Grosicki, Jarrod Bowen, Gwoin Edwards, Adam Reach, Jon Taylor, Gareth McLeary, Tom Barkhuizen, Luciano Narsingh, Nathan Dyer, Oliver Burke, Matty Phillips and Calum McManaman. All natural wingers who like to run at full backs and stretch the play so they do exist still. To again clarify so im not misquoted, im very happy with the standard of Kasey Palmer and excited to see what he could bring to our team, as I know he has ability, and in comparison to some of the dross weve been linked with recently, notably Ashley Fletcher, signing a player like Palmer is a breath of fresh air, albeit on a short term deal. That said, I would be very disappointed if this was instead of a natural winger.

Think theres a unanimous verdict that hes a good player at this level who will add a lot to our attacking options, probably from out wide. Comments about the length of his potential deal are fair. As are those commenting on his natural position not being wide or up front where we need him. Quite a few including myself feel uncomfortable with players who "can do a job" in a position. Square pegs in round holes. Thats why I also want a natural winger.

This might sound stupid but I think our most under rated player is actually Mulgrew. Whenever you see peoples opinions of games and who played well it is rare that people pick out Mulgrew. I think personally his other assets ie his composure on the ball, his free kicks and set pieces in general take some of the focus away from how good he is as a centre back at defending. He is the organiser back there, I find it baffling that anyone would want him anywhere but in the heart of defence, his defensive work is taken for granted I think. Was very good last night but hasnt really got a mention.

Not sure how youve come to that conclusion. He played what you would think he considers his strongest team yesterday for their first 90 minutes and he played the 4-2-3-1 that saw us through the majority of last season with such success. You mention Samuel but he wouldnt be able to replicate his performance out wide from yesterday in the system you suggest. As I said in the pre season thread I thought Samuel was very good out wide last night and actually used his physical attributes. That said, I would certainly hope and am sure that Mowbray would never be so naive to think thats hes the answer instead of a new, natural winger. Obviously it puts him forward as an option there and is food for thought but ive never seen him play like that out wide before. Palmer is a good player who will add to our attacking armoury but we still need a striker and a natural winger, because we need at least 1 player who can stretch teams.

So am I as long as its as well as a natural winger. Definitely of a good calibre but we need a natural winger to hug the line as if Palmer plays on the other sidw we will lack width. You were all for playing 3 at the back a mere few days ago!

He is never a striker in a million years. Palmer will probably be best served trying to play wide.

Very enjoyable night tonight and very impressive performance. Not fickle enough to think he should be starting at this level, but credit to Samuel tonight. Deserved his goal, he rarely uses his pace properly to run at defenders, or rarely uses his body well, tonight he did both of them things and was a constant menace. Dack terrific as always, the run for the second and strength for the third were brilliant. His link with the impressive Graham is telepathic at times. Evans was very tidy, came off seemingly like he was carrying something though, always the problem with him. Pleased that we saw the game out with a clean sheet too. Looked well drilled. Just need more pace and flair options going forward but a lot to be pleased about tonight.

Happy with the quality of Kasey Palmer, impressed me before and is definitely far better than some of the names banded around on this board in the last few days. Impressed me as a Huddersfield player. Not happy with the fact its only until the end of December. Also dont understand why we are signing players in positions where we have depth in Dack and Rothwell. Not a fan of shoehorning players into positions that they dont naturally play in. If its as well as at least another pacy winger and striker then its a good move however.

Record says definitely avoid. Not sure thats a reliable source tbh.

I really wish people would stop peddling this myth that theres a lack of trust in Mowbray. The lack of trust is quite evidently with the owners, and with good reason.

Well obviously, both are just rumours but who is more likely to be right? Waggott will be thinking of ways to further inconvenience and fleece the fans!

Rich sharpes rehashed article today says buys too, maybe higher than Dacks fee. Nixon thinks just loans. Who do you think is right?

Its a bizarre and inconsistent theory. Dack hasnt played any Championship football, hes our best player. Jason Lowe has loads, same with Hope Akpan, both rubbish. Ashley Fletcher has very little, of which all is negative, yet he wants to sign him. Armstrong hasnt been that successful in the past in the Championship, yet he wants to sign him. Chapman, has he played in the Championship? If he has, very little experience, yet he wants him. Maddison, Edwards, Adelakun? No he doesnt want them as they dont have the elusive Championship experience. If a player has been successful in this league, then yes, its a positive. But players who have played in this league and been below the quality needed, are not better than those that have yet to play but have been very successful in other leagues, just by saying "Championship experience."

We will see. You mention Hugill but they sold him in Jan, hes not the best of players and they had Maguire who looks a far better and more prolific striker and pushed them higher in the table. They are another example to us that even with little money, quality is out there. And who has said that they dont trust Mowbray? No one has. Any distrust is understandably at the feet of our terrible owners. If we dont spend anything/a competitive amount the brunt of the blame will end up at their door. That said, there have been cheap deals and loan deals that have already taken place to show you can get decent players on a budget but thats a conversation for another day. As pointed out previously, you are getting as impatient and panicky as anyone based on your pestering of journalists and supposed people who claim they know transfer news.