Hoban far too injury prone and not good enough. That performance v Barnsley still fresh in my mind. Him and Gallagher, dont get the desire to bring players from our last failed Championship season. Need better.

Agreed on no one knowing the budget but surely prices will only go up now once clubs sense a bit of desperation kicking in? I fear your hopes for Maddison, Armstrong and Bauer will leave you dissapointed in a couple of weeks too.

Hope we dont spend much of our budget on a centre back when its not anywhere near as much of a pressing concern as our depleted attack. If it is still 2 permanent, 2 loans, then id like 2 of 3 attacking players (1 striker and 1 winger) to be permanent personally. Thats where we need to spend money. No need to spend big on Bauer etc.

Wouldnt read much into that chaddy. No quotes or anything from Mowbray, just speculation on Armstrongs perceived availability. I feel like your painting our fan base in an unfair light here. Fans are going to compare the signings made by similar clubs with similar budgets in the positions we need to strengthen ourselves. Thats par for the course. If we sign better players then everyone is happy, if we dont then people will rightfully suggest why we havent signwd better when better players are clearly out there. Thats the nature of the game.

Agreed. They are easy suggestions because they were here last season. The only reason Mowbray has even discussed them is because journalists have asked him directly about them as they were here last season, therefore its a bit different than asking him about other speculated targets. Id love Armstrong back but im less than optimistic.

That would be good.

Ademola Lookman is being strongly linked with a 20m move to Leipzig. None of them are realistic sadly. Nelson at a push.

Oh yeah, definitely. Venkys for sure.

Its all theories, maybe weve been haggling for Armstrong, maybe we havent even enquired, we dont know like you said. All we can do is guess, suggest and hypothesise until the window closes. If our signings are players like Armstrong (permanently!) then we will all be happy. If they are worse than the ones that have gone to similar clubs to ourselves then he will be judged negatively. We all hope it is the former.

He will be judged when we get to the season and the transfer window ends. If he is left without the players in the positions that he set out to sign months ago, or hes left with ones below the quality he and we would want. Then I will have little time for any complaints, re budgets, agents, whatever. The examples from other clubs are of a loan, a free and a cheap (6 figure) buy so it shows that there are players out there. That said, I trust that he will sign who he needs to sign, theres little we can do in the meantime but have hypothetical conversations sadly!

Im glad to hear of Whittingham having more of an impact today, albeit in pre season. I've never been convinced by the theory that he wasnt interested last season, I think thats a lazy presumption based on aging midfielders weve had in the past, most notably Murphy. He and Graham were the ones who were sort of made an example of after the Doncaster game when we fell apart, when he was played wide right in Mowbrays most catastrophic attempt at 3 at the back to date, with Williams and Caddis at wing back. Of course, when we reverted to 4 and a more orthodox system, results improved, and he never really consistently got his place back, and had big periods out with injury. I feel like hes got that tag on his shoulders now, for example I found it baffling that people singled him out for criticism on Thursday, if it was anyone else I doubt he would have been picked out. I still feel that he can have an impact for us this season, and in central midfield, there are some good options, it is possibly our most well stocked position. Got a variety of tenacity and technique in there.

Absolutely, im not in the pack with my pitchfork just yet demanding Mowbray resigns out of principle or any of that nonsense. My post was more aimed at Chaddy asking why we should overpay for "average" players. I used them examples to show how teams around us have managed to sign players that IMO would have improved us, relatively cheaply. Of course if we sign players like Armstrong who are better, then that point becomes obsolete anyway. Chaddys theory wouldnt marry up with your theory anyway as I presume Mowbray wouldnt have long term targets that he considered to be average!

Feels like groundhog day. Mowbray didnt even do his usual "the markets difficult, agents are difficult, we are spinning different plates, we hope to sign some players soon bla bla bla" interview after the game. It was more, Nuttall needs game time so wed like to loan him out to continue his development but we might have no choice but to keep him. Whilst I get that we want value for money, the market is what it is and the longer we leave it, the more that clubs will be able to cash in on our growing desperation. There will come a point where it is too late to say "why should we overpay for average players." Im not too sure I swallow it anyway, I listed a number of players that our direct rivals have signed that would have improved us. Maybe we arent looking hard enough.

I think we have to treat it on its individual merits. From the few players you mentioned, a few proved to be nowhere near good enough, O'Sullivan a prime example, and the likes of O'Connell and Morris were sold I think before we got to a level whereby they would have been able to be the assets they would be today. Maybe you could argue that we need to have more of a plan when loaning players out, but we cant write it off as a development tool altogether. Regarding replacements, the simple answer is for 2 of them, they probably wont be needed, but even if they were, we dont want to keep the 3 young lads knocking around on the off chance of 20 minutes here and there. Tomlinson is in an area where we are well stocked, Smallwood, Evans, Whittingham, Davenport, Bennett and Travis are all ahead of him. Wharton isnt going to play over Mulgrew and Lenihan, and Downing and Williams provide experienced cover. Nuttall is a bit different in that hes in an area widely acknowledged that we need reinforcements, but surely you would agree that going into a Championship season with a strikeforce of an aging Graham, Nuttall and Samuel would be inadequate? I understand potential criticism about the club Wharton has gone to, but its a club hes comfortable with, that rates him enough to give him regular game time, maybe he wanted to go back or there were not potential interested suitors of note in League 1? Not sure. Think you are harsh suggesting that Mowbray has been harsh or treat Nuttall poorly. Hes clearly been asked about the issue, and has answered it, based on the dialogue him and Nuttall have had before todays goal. Seems a consistent message as per Wharton, sign a long term deal as we see you as part of our future, but go out and get regular games under your belt first. Graham started the majority of games in the second half of the season so im not really sure you can point too many fingers there regarding sapping his confidence either. Travis was given bits of game time last season and is regularly praised, but again he wasnt going to stroll into the first 11 last season of a team winning regularly on a successful promotion push, regardless of under 23 form. (Just typed out a reply then accidentally hid it so I dont know how to get it back!)

I personally think that Wharton, Nuttall and Tomlinson should go out on loan. I did think the same for Travis, but maybe his performances and versatility mean we need him a bit too much. I understand @Stuart how you may be skeptical about players who we have loaned out in the past, but like you said, Raya and Lenihan benefitted recently and everything needs to be treat on its individual merits, is Wharton going to play in front of Mulgrew and Lenihan? No, and are Downing and Williams with their experience more likely to be adequate cover? Id suggest yes, more so than keeping Wharton for the odd game when he could be playing a full season regularly at a club he is already comfortable at. Tomlinson is behind Smallwood, Evans, Bennett, Davenport, Whittingham and Travis, and has never had regular first team football, nor would he get it here. Same with Nuttall, he had an impact when he first came into the team off the bench mainly, then he faded and when he started, I remember v Bury away and Bristol Rovers at home, he looked short physically and unable to lead the line, so give him a season in League 1 or League 2. We was linked with Nmecha the other day from City, thats not a deal id want us to do however, as he has no first team experience really himself. Davenport is a bit different in that he held his own in this league last season, and is a long term project. Doesnt instill confidence does he? http://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/16370473.lincoln-city-0-blackburn-rovers-1-tony-mowbray-reaction/?ref=mac On Nuttall, Mowbray said: “Joe only has Dominic Samuel and Danny Graham ahead of him and at the moment he’ll definitely be in and around the attacking options for us. “If that’s how we start the season then Joe will have to be around it. “I’ve talked to Joe and potentially a loan move - if we can get the strikers in that we want, or the attacking options - then I think Joe’s next progression might well be to play 30 or 40 games somewhere - similarly to Scotty Wharton - and score some goals and give him the confidence and belief in playing in the league." He sounds frustrated and as if nothing is imminent, reading between the lines. (What else can we do considering our transfer window is so slow?) The quote in bold, almost implies that either theres a chance that we wont sign any strikers, or at best, they will be loans after the season has started. Neither of which possibilities for me can be deemed acceptable. Agreed. If we are strapped for cash, no need to spend it on a non-priority position. If we have anything left over after a striker and 2 wingers then maybe.

He didnt trust Chapman, hence one start in the League and a refusal to see him as anything but an impact sub. He said post match that he might loan out Nuttall unless we dont add to our current strikeforce.

I think everyone would agree (personally I dont want Chapman) and people are level headed enough to judge at window end. Its understandable why people become slight tetchy as time goes by, while our rivals are signing players for affordable fees that would have improved us, espcially under the cloud that is Venkys.

Whilst that may be true. Why does a friendly in which Mowbray has said beforehand that hes just playing a formation to get everyone a game, and one that we are apparently playing a back 4 with Lenihan at right back, convince you?

No thanks. Didnt you even say he wasnt good enough? Apologies if not true.

Kent has gone to Rangers. Another one bites the dust.

As much as that perhaps underestimates the importance like Mowbray suggesting of bedding new players in and starting off strongly (unlike our last 2 seasons) id agree. But I think thats an unfair comment. People arent saying lets bring in players for the sake of it. Obviously if we sign superior players to the ones mentioned this/next week then people will be happy. Our fans will become twitchy the longer time goes on because our owners are proven to let us down, time and time again. My list just shows, bar McManaman who I wouldnt personally want really, that 3 of our rivals have signed players for cheap that would have also improved us.

Think id echo others in that its dependant on who we bring in. If we went in with the squad we had now, wed come straight back down. We only have Dack and Graham whose fitness is waning for all his quality, who give us anything going forward. We need at least 2 wingers and a striker, and maybe another defender. If we brought in quality, players like Armstrong and Maddison, and dont try and play 3 at the back, you could look at teams like Preston, Millwall and Sheffield United for inspriation if our solid core stayed fit. So its literally dependant on our transfer dealings. Players we need to hold on to, our best players are Dack, Mulgrew, Lenihan and Graham and 2 are veterans and 2 have signed new deals so dont think theres any danger of losing them.

Yep, Ipswich, Bolton and Wigan will all be near the bottom with us youd imagine, and Bristol City will struggle with a very average manager and their best 2 players sold. Now none of them are necessarily exceptional championship players, but they would definitely have improved us for little cost, and given us direct running and mobility. So there are players out there, and its why I take all the reasons/excuses ive seen, lack of money, agents proving difficult to work with etc with a massive pinch of salt. There are players out there and we are lagging behind.

I bet hes glad you arent representing him with that summary! For all those reasons, a definite no.

As much as I get that the market is inflated and difficult, its no good constantly bleating on about it as if we dont bring in enough that excuse wont help us after the season starts. Are 50m for Richarlyson, 7m for Gallagher etc, stupidly exaggerated fees? Yes but equally, if youve got anything about you, there are definitely players out there for reasonable fees that have gone elsewhere whilst weve sat on our hands, and there are obviously more out there if we look hard enough, even if I get the impression that Mowbrays budget consists of what he can fish out from down the side of his settee. Said all along, we have absolutely no pace out wide, meanwhile, Adelakun has joined Bristol City, Gwoin Edwards has joined Ipswich, Wildshut has gone to Bolton on loan, and to a lesser extent, McManaman has gone back to Wigan, all 4 would have walked into our team and thus improved us for very cheap. Im not saying that theres not better out there, dependant on our budget, but them 4 players ive mentioned all went to clubs that id expect to be in the bottom half with us, so why arent we at least competitive. For a bit more, we know Armstrong is unwanted by Newcastle and Maddison has a bargain release clause, them 2 are better than the 4 ive mentioned prior but probably well out of our range.