But the passing is remedial and in no way threatening, other teams that are well organised see Lenihan, Williams and co passing it side to side and think yeah, have it there, because it never leads to anything progressive or penetrative. Having more passes than last season isnt a badge of honour if we are even less threatening, and there is nothing to be applauded about having more passes if they are totally pointless. I think that if we repeatedly have struggled to create clear cut chances in EVERY game this season then the new style of football isnt working. You suggested the other day that it had garnered improvement that you had seen v Luton and Forest, for me we were shite in both games, stodgy, slow, lethargic, totally blunt, even worse than last season. I also do think that the striker has a responsibility in terms of the amount of chances we have, chance creation isnt just a burden of the players behind him. Some have that knack of being able to anticipate and sniff out where the ball will fall. Rhodes was a master of it, regardless of the levels of service. Likewise Graham last season, many of his goals were scruffy, I think all inside the box, but he got 15 or 16. He looks leggy in his limited time this season but look v Luton, when players had the ball Gallagher I felt went hiding in the box, and when he had the ball near goal twice he instantly tried to pass on all responsibility and gave the ball away trying to pass the buck. Graham came on, the first thing he did was peeled off his man and got a shot on target. He soon after peeled round again and it took a last ditch block to prevent him. Gallagher does not have that knack of knowing where the ball will fall. Regarding changes, 1 or 2 isnt the problem, of course you cant rely solely on 11 players, but no one knowing our best team isnt healthy. Preston and Forest make subtle changes amidst an overhaul consistent system, when they change personnel it doesnt change the overall make up of the team, look at PNE, Johnson or Browne, Potts or Harrop, Barkhuizen or Maguire, it doesnt really make much difference. Our squad has some talented players in it but it is incredibly imbalanced. We are horribly light in defence, we have plenty of midfielders but all of them want to play centrally, and absolutely no cutting edge. Mowbray also seems reluctant to include more than one "flair" player on a regular basis, rather than embracing a potential strength, and trying to fit Dack, Rothwell and Holtby all in the same team. How do you know about the wages we spend on our manager compared to other teams? Surely we could offer more than Charlton. The manager is the most important person, makes no sense to penny pinch on him and spend 12m on 2 shit strikers!

There is some shite in this league chaddy, its competitive because there isnt THAT much quality in it. You dont have to do Sky Sports marketing campaign for them haha.

The way we are playing has been a topic of great debate on here for 2 reasons, both of which you have defending Mowbray about after every single game, claiming progression has been made on both scores. I have personally criticised the style of play, for me its a lot of slow, laborious passing in our own half, and often followed by a direct pass anyway. We have had more of the ball but have been less effective in attack. I have also said that boring football is withstandable if its effective but it hasnt been which is the main issue. So I would be interested to know the following questions: - Do you still stand by your assertions that our style of football has been effective? My opinion mirrors some in the style of football thread, its horrible to watch, its not done in an effective or clear way, and its resulted in very few goals and just as worryingly, very few shots on target or clear chances. - Do you still think that Mowbray is right to repeatedly change his team? I dont think Mowbray knows his best team, and I think consistency in team selection is critical in terms of getting consistency in results. I thought you didnt go yesterday, did you manage to watch the game? That was my question to be fair, I was investigating whether the change of heart was as a result of a singular result. I just dont want us to fall into a trap when we do replace Mowbray of going straight for the same names, I'd rather we pushed for someone a bit more ambitious. I dont think he is under any pressure at all. I think delving into who would pick the new manager, whether the owners are considering a change etc is all sadly all naive and premature. I suspect hes got a cushy job under his mate Waggott for the forseeable and of course any managerial change would be more to push on and progress to where we expect to be, we arent in crisis or anything, so I think sadly nothing will change and we will continue to stagnate.

To be fair, you defended all of these decisions and have done up until today. Fair play for having the flexibility to change your mind but of course people will question what has suddenly proved the catalyst.

I know, but before the game you was suggesting that you have seen improvements in our style of play and its effectiveness with each game, and rejecting suggestions that our football is drab and boring. You also said a couple of days ago that you felt that top 6 was realistic and that we had a chance. Can you see how a sudden defiance that a managerial change is the way to go is a little confusing as to the quick change of heart. Albeit I do agree with you. My reservations have been simmering for a bit. Lee Bowyer is working with peanuts and whilst Charlton are above us his job security is dependant on the mood of an incredibly volatile owner. (Ours more scream dormant and disenterested at the moment) He nearly was let go in the summer. He would have better job security and more money to work with here. Id rather we at least tried for someone like that, an appointment with ambition, before going for one of Adkins, Karanka, Rowett etc. I do think that Mowbray has blown 12m on 2 total duds but I doubt Venkys care enough to question such specific issues. I dont think Mowbray is under any pressure in that I think Venkys are idiots and Waggott is his mate.

I think its a little naive to suggest that last paragraph. He wont be going anywhere. And Waggott knew him prior to joining so he certainly wont be pushing for his departure.

Fair post. You did for a couple of days say you want Mowbray out following the win(!) V Oldham then revert back to defending him to all and sundry, out of interest why has it changed suddenly again? Regarding your choices, one thing I would insist is that who Ainsworth supports has to be considered irrelevant. A football club shouldnt allow sentiment to play a part in recruiting a manager, once the novelty wears off it makes not one iota of a difference and indeed can cause clubs to make silly appointments. Whether that be who the manager supports or used to play for. United fell into the trap of appointing Solskjaer, there was initial positivity but quickly hes proved incompetent. We was told how perfect Woodgate was for the Boro job, the novelty of who he is soon wears off. You may point to Wilder but hes doing so wel not becuase he supports Sheffield United but because hes a superb, proactive manager who had success in the past and has implemented a very consistent system where his players know their roles to a tee. This isnt all aimed at you btw this is a general point. What we have to remember is that unlike a lot of the time, a new manager wouldnt be taking over a club in crisis fighting for its life. Just one swimming in mediocrity, one thats become stagnant and needs someone who can make it greater than the sum of its parts. Hughton has to be the stand out candidate if we could push the boat out for him, his record speaks for itself. Aside from him, Id love us to push for Lee Bowyer if he could be persuaded. Getting every last drop out of his players at Charlton. Ainsworth, solely for his actual ability and the job hes doing at Wycombe, would also be a good appointment. They are perhaps the main 3. A few of the other unemployed managers that you mention, Adkins, Karanka and Rowett, would all be steady if slightly uninspiring choices, to be considered if the above 3 turned us down. Moyes has been out a while, and Pearson I am not sure. Johnson would be an IMO unnecessary gamble and Coleman is a bit shit, we dont have Gareth Bale. Sadly, Mowbray is going nowhere. Venkys are the idiots that are continiously the elephant in the room and Waggott is Mowbrays mate.

For me it has to be time for a change of manager over the international break. Mowbray has done well for us but he clearly isnt capable of taking us any further, thank him and send him on his way. Ideal replacement would be Hughton if we could get him, otherwise Lee Bowyer who is doing a superb job at an unstable and seemingly penniless Charlton. I would hope that he would be attainable, if neither of them are, the likes of Nigel Adkins and Aitor Karanka have proven track records at this level. We unsurprisingly havent got rid of that habit of collapsing in away games. The defence today from 15 minutes inwas the same one as last year, Bennett, Lenihan, Williams and Bell all repeatedly made stupid mistakes throughout last season, and theres very little beneath that. I think some were fooled because of the removal of a past it captain, the signing of a slightly less erratic (but nonetheless still unconvincing) and the loan signing of a very Mowbray cannot seem to settle on a best team, or make an expensively assembled attack even able to create decent opportunities. There is a constant change in his teams, with him having an obsession of wanting to be able to change from game to game as if it wont in any way hinder the potential to strive for consistency. Some of our more talented players are given few or no chances of starting, whereas some of Mowbrays favourites seem sure fire picks most weeks regardless of performance. The result of Mowbrays meddling is an inability to go on a consistent run of results, and him having no idea what his best team is. Its hard not to glance over to Preston, a squad cheaply assembled compared to us, but with a manager getting more out of them players than the sum of their parts. They had a favourable home match today, they won comfortably, no sweat, next game.

Need to be picking up a win today really on the back of a very poor week so far.

Craig Conway has signed a short term deal at Salford.

Mixed team. Really pleased to see Rothwell start, and the lummox Gallagher dropped. Holtby should be starting however, and Johnson should have been picked over Evans.

In Rhodes' first season he got 27/28 goals and our team was shit. Tough question, but would have to plump for Rhodes. Cannot argue with that goal record. Superb. Graham is a great striker but not quite the same goal threat, never hitting 20.

Would it have made us score more goals? It was having crap like Lowe, Williamson, Chris Taylor, Steele, Spurr etc behind that which was the issue. Rhodes was a master every season he was here at sniffing out chances. Even when he had shite service, he still got goals. The opposite of Gallagher for whom the ability to sniff out goalscoring opportunities is alien to him.

King would have needed to score more than the 20 goals Rhodes guaranteed to do that. No one knows whether he would have, but at the time it would have been brainless to drop a 20 goal striker. He was not part of the reason why we underachieved.

At that time, the pair were performing to excellent, consistent levels, banging in the goals, doing their job as well as any strikeforce in the league, sadly the manager and the 9 behind were not at the same level. Couldnt give a shit what they are doing now, it doesnt change how well they were doing then.

Where the 3 players now is totally irrelevant. The only question you ask is, at that time, was the strikeforce of Rhodes and Gestede consistently scoring a level of goals as high as anyone in the division? As the answer is yes, the decision was correct to leave them to do that, and it was the failings of the manager and the rest of the side that cost us.

He has played half of his games central and been equally ineffective there.

If they hated a manager who had them in 7th then Woodgates gonna have to win a fair few matches now the novelty of a former player has worn off.

Woodgate always seemed a sentimental choice to me. Ultimately whilst patience may last a little longer initially due to him being an ex player, he is doing considerably worse than Pulis was with largely the same squad, and deserves to start coming under serious pressure if these terrible results continue.

Dont understand all this nonsense about him getting used to a new style. So is everyone else, seeing as Mowbray claims to have started it this season. That being said, I dont see a strong identity especially in an attacking sense anyway. There has to be big pressure on him. All 5m that we spent on transfer budget went on him, as well as high wages. Hes 24, hes got over 2 full seasons worth of Championship experience including one You look at the 3 teams that went up last season and they all had a 20 plus goal striker. I didnt want Gallagher in the first place and from what Ive seen so fae this season he will struggle to get to double figures. Im not saying that Mowbray picks the correct team and tactics to provide a consistent supply line but a striker that never gets chances suggests issues with his movement and anticipation. He needs to improve and start scoring ASAP for us to achieve our objectives as many of our other signings have proved shrewd additions.

Goals is the most important thing though. If your striker is scoring 20 goals a season hes doing very well. End of.

Then you are underestimating the value of goals! Goals are the main thing you want from your striker.

Where they are now is totally irrelevant. At that time Rhodes was scoring 20 goals a season. He was doing exactly what youd want.

Its bizarre that looking back at a side that failed to get into the top 6, that people instantly question the one part of the side that made us so expectant in the first place due to its consistent goals. Our strike force was as productive as any in the division. It was faults amidst the 9 behind them, not with one of the 20 goal strikers that caused us to underachieve. Not the one who repeatedly kept scoring presumably. Agreed, the thing with Dack that guarantees him a place though is the numbers. I agree that he was really poor but even in that poor performance he played a superb pass for the goal. He also has 3 recent goals. It shouldnt be him OR Holtby.

Seem to remember him also getting one at home to Forest.