I think 14th place is ok, I certainly dont think we are underachieving, nor overachieving for that matter. I would have been content had that been offered in the summer with the resources at our disposal, no more. I am happy with the job Mowbray is doing, I have said many times that I worry about his recruitment and dont feel hes progressed the team much with a very healthy summer budget (which has to surely cause a change in expectations), and I also would like him to show far less loyalty to players along the way who come up short to allow us to progress. That being said, theres certainly a pride in the shirt again and hes done a good job overall culminating in promotion last season.

If Waggott chose to spin any potential crowd tonight to be proof that lowering prices has little to no impact then that would be naive and foolish. The main deterrent I would suspect is the fact that it is a night game, even some season ticket holders cannot attend, especially those with kids. Add to that the fact that its on TV and paint it how you want, those two are major factors in limiting the potential crowd. Im looking forward to going down as per usual but I also appreciate that a freezing cold night against a second string Newcastle side isnt going to cause a sudden rise in sales.

Its not a fact, its very subjective. Mixing both opinions on here with those of people I know who are supporters and the general consensus that I get is that we are not too far from where people thought we would be. Mid table mediocrity, some thinking of a faint play off push, some fearing being dragged the other way, but middle of the road. You cant say we are over achieving as a fact.

Not on IMO for anyone not attending to have a go at attendances, regardless of circumstance.

I fear that like many others you underappreciate how impressive his goal and assist returns are. And how difficult it would be even if we got every penny to reinvest, to replace him. Look at the other attacking players for various fees that we have on our books that Mowbray has signed. Armstrong, Rothwell, Samuel, Brereton, Gladwin. None have come close to suggest they could make up the surplus of goals needed. And theres over 10m of attackers there.

And in the 2 summers prior to this (in the Championship) we were under a transfer embargo ahead of the first (signed Akpan, Guthrie, Delfouenso etc and sold Cairney, Rhodes mid season, Gestede etc) and the following season we sold our remaining stars (Hanley and Duffy) and spent 250k. Correct on the loyalty issue. Token contracts to Smallwood and Williams are examples of a lack of ruthlessness.

The thing that I always question when people refer to Mowbrays apparent over cautiousness and defensive nature is genuine confusion as to whether this is actually the problem. If that is his reasoning behind his general tactics and team selections then based on our defensive record, its not working! Weve conceded more tha Bolton!

The thing is, there is a key variable within your analysis. You say we have more or less the same team that got promoted. Would you not agree that, considering the money we had in the summer, that is a slight on our summer recruitment? Which 5 teams do you perceive to be worse than us, and which teams are we above that has surprised you? We have a 10th to 16th level wage budget and had 10m to spend. For all the grandeur about the league, which admittedly is entertaining, it is also littered with crap. I also think you are underestimating the ease to which we got promoted last season. Both us and Wigan finished on incredibly high points tallies, and for us that factored in a really poor start in which we initially struggled to accumulate the consistency that after a dozen games saw us overcome a 12 point gap with ease. The level of consistency in terms of results always takes precedent over the performances. This is something to which I feel is commonly underestimated when people use "for a promoted team." We are a Championship side who even in a season of even for Venkys extreme negligence only went down on goal difference.

Are we really overachieving? You seem desperate to suggest we are but I think we are about on par in terms of league position compared to where we should be, in terms of wages as much as everything else. There are teams above us (Bristol City, Hull, QPR and Birmingham) all of whom I would suggest are "overachieving" more than we are. Whereas below us, only Stoke (mismamaged this season and under considerable reconstruction) and Preston (riddled with injuries and have fat less resources) surprise me in terms of being below us. I also think you are overestimating our competitiveness by mentioning just Preston and Wigan. We have been beaten by more than one goal on quite a few occasions. Mowbray is doing a good job but his ability to build the squad with new players is questionable and hit and miss and his loyalty to some is also a big concern.

I would suspect that even if his contract is highly incentive based, there is little to no chance that a player would accept a pay as you play without a guaranteed wage of some description.

Was a horrendous game, them 2 late goals perhaps mask what was a terribly flawed gameplan, that played right into Millwalls hands with the ball forever in the air, Millwall werent very effective at what they do best although to be fair results are what matters but as Mowbray said we will need to massively improve going forward. Lenihan and Rodwell were outstanding at centre back, Lenihan in particular was a man mountain and Rodwell added some composure. Bell was absolutely rotten again, think we need to move him on, has to be high on our transfer agenda to bring in a left back. Nyambe was much better when he came on and has been very unlucky that Mowbrays insistence that Bennett must be shoehorned in somewhere even if there is no space in midfield has left him at full back where he cannot. That said, I have long since called for a vast improvement from Bennett in terms of goals and assists and he has come up with 2 superb assists in the last week so I would move him forward for the Newcastle. Travis was more subdued that he has been for most of yesterday but still better than those around him and was superb for both goals. Has to be one of the first names on the team sheet at the moment. Evans, Reed and Conway I thought were all poor, and Dack was also probably wondering why he was even in the team with the tactics we adopted. One man who is beyond question for the occasional poor performance considering his statistics. I thought Nuttall was ineffective but scored his second goal for us that was a total fluke, maybe its not a mere coincidence. Armstrong was superb when he came on and the difference.

Find this totally bizarre. He has 10 league goals and 4 assists, and 3 of each extra in the cups. Hes a consistent source of goals in a team that plays long ball football, he is by far our best player, hes not holding us back.

The Evans and Travis partnership was very impressive in the last 2 games and shouldnt be broken up. I would drop Bennett and play Reed wide but I suspect that he will be shoehorned into right back. Not sure on the rules of playing Dack twice either...

No.

Raya has undoubtedly massively improved, but he miscues far more than "the odd kick" and is still prone to an error. Still, goalkeeper is well down any list of potential improvements.

I even think that Hanley is categorised as an extreme type of blood and thunder defender which is a little unfair. He was very intelligent in terms of organising and winning free kicks, and he also had a level of composure on the ball that often was ignored, the penalty he won v Millwall being a prime example. He is certainly no Mulgrew in terms of stepping out but hes not just a clumsy oaf whos big and brave, hes more than that.

Olsson, as well as being almost certainly unobtainable, and overrated, is injured for the rest of the season. https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2016/may/hanley-named-player-of-the-year/ A very good Championship defender.

He'd certainly offer far more on the wing than what weve got. Mowbrays choices of wide men, especially this season have not worked out in terms of goals and assists. Marshall offers far more, getting 3 goals and 5 assists in 16 appearances at Millwall last season and playing a huge role in their sudden surge up to the brink of the play offs. He has a track record at this level too. I find it strange that our fans turn our nose up at him (admittedly he is a prick but still) yet foam at the mouth over Chapman, who yes certainly has talent, but has injury issues, our manager has admitted he doesnt seem him starting games any time soon, and he doesnt have a track record. I alsways found him to be far less effective at full back, and he played there at a time when the main alternative was Adam Henley and then a very raw Ryan Nyambe (in his last half season under Coyle) therefore it was needs must. As has been touched on, the conversation is a bit moot as he would never come back but he would walk into the side. I find Mowbrays comments about needing a target man a little strange, and am unconvinced that he sees a winger as a priority which is a worry. He said “With total respect to Ben Woodburn, we have invested in a player (Ben Brereton) who has mobility, can run with the ball, create chances and score goals and is a mobile, agile, type of striker." Not only have we not seen any of that, but it suggests that the solution to our winger issue is Ben Brereton in Mowbrays eyes! It also mentions Sam Gallagher as a target man, but thats not a quote from Mowbray so hopefully it is just an inaccurate comparison from Rich Sharpe. https://www.lancashiretelegraph.co.uk/sport/football/rovers/news/17349186.mowbray-distances-rovers-from-links-with-liverpool-youngster/ No. Rothwell plays wide almost exclusively, he has played central midfield once or twice (think for the last 15 minutes against Rotherham (?) at home he went there as we chased the game, he played there at Bournemouth too) but he plays on the left wing usually. Theres no way he can be trusted to be a central midfielder, he takes risks running with the ball and they would be potentially fatal there, yet far more dangerous in the final third, assuming he doesnt lose it as much as he did at Bramall Lane. There are very few occasions (when hes carrying a knock) that I would consider taking Dack off full stop, so for me thats not a viable place for him either. But he would be first back up should Dack get injured IMO. If Downing goes, he has to be replaced surely.

Surely Rothwell is that man? Doubt they would loan us him to sit on the bench.

There is chance of a return so its moot but Rhodes proved he is effective even as a lone striker, he scored goals on his own or as a pair. In that first season he played as a lone striker and was incredible. Marshall would also be a good signing as he proved at Millwall last year but again theres no chance.

Your original statement was correct.

Is there not a rule whereby replays have to be priced the same as the initial game?

Most of his cameos in the last couple of months have been central so thats blatantly not true. But youd see some of them attributes (pace, strength, skill etc) even if he was wide. Need to sign an actual, starting winger. I think that Palmer got a raw deal especially compared to Rothwell, who had contributed even less than Palmer (neither has had a fair run or game time in their natural position) and that was evident after the Sheffield United game when Rothwell spent the whole game running the ball into blind alleys, Palmer was much better yet Rothwell seemed to get the plaudits. I dont think Armstrong has had many chances central, in fact I would say that Brereton has played more minutes centrally than him. Armstrong has been poor for most of the season but at least he has shown a bit of promise in terms of his pace and last season his finishing. There is something there to work with at least. If you genuinely think that me or anyone spends their hard earned money to hope that our players fail then you are sadly mistaken. One thing ive said throughout is that we shouldnt sign Sam Gallagher, a similar type of striker to both Brereton and Armstrong, and that signing a striker should be well down the priority list as we cant afford to write off 9m worth of investment down the middle or stunt their development to sign a very average striker of the same ilk on a temporary basis. With Brereton in particular, I am banking quite blindly on him becoming a success. I actually think his price tag works in his favour, would he warrant a place in the 18 over Nuttall if he had signed for free? Not too sure.

The thing is Brereton has not done anywhere near enough in his cameos, nor in his start against Sheffield United, to warrant giving him a start. The only thing that would justify giving him a start is ironically the 7m price tag that many seem insistent on protecting him from in their demands for patience. Its nothing to do with his age. His age would account for inconsistency, assuming a raw potential is there beneath it. Yes hes 19, but hes not a total novice, he played over 50 games for Forest. Armstrong despite his frustratingly inconsistent nature has done far more to feel aggrieved should Brereton start the next game that Graham misses over him as a central forward. Armstrongs end product has been really poor but, on the assumption that we would need to change our style of play to accomodate either as a striker, Armstrong has at least shown blistering pace and we know he can finish from last season. One thing that makes no sense and ties in with this thread is making a temporary addition of another striker who doesnt hold the ball up well enough to play the tactics we currently adopt, in Sam Gallagher. Its also important to note that the "playing out of position" argument loses credibility with each passing game. Strangely since Mowbray commented on why he doesnt see him as a striker yet, he has started featuring predomanintly down the middle.

I may have been watching different games but most of his recent appearances have been central, not wide. I think we should really go to beat Newcastle and then Watford and I dont think Brereton starting over Graham reflects that or is deserved.