Did he though, quotes suggested the only thing stopping him joining on the last day of the window was a lack of a replacement at Boro?

For a player who came with the reputation of an attacking wing back, he cant attack at all.

Williams looks more comfortable at left back in my opinion, as @BlackburnEnd75 rightly said he made an awful mistake against West Brom and against QPR he had nothing to do defensively. We also need him at left back as Bell is often a bit of a weak link.

Raya Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Williams Rodwell Reed Palmer Dack Rothwell Brereton Subs: Leutweiler, Bennett, Smallwood, Armstrong, Graham, Downing, Bell Ive assumed Raya and Mulgrew are going to be fit. Id like to see the shackles off as this is on paper almost as winnable a game as we will get. 50/50 between the striker, opted to satisfy the want to see Brereton played centrally but would be equally happy with Graham.

Surely no one still holds the opinion that we should sign him in January?

Waggott came in after wed just won 6 in a row last christmas, Mowbray is the one who had already charged us forward and his results are tangible proof of that, he has already made plenty of signings including Dack, nothing to me suggests Waggott has improved that side of things individually. In terms of decisions we know he has made. His increased pricing strategy has obviously not been the success he intended it to be otherwise we wouldnt have fallen below his own targets. No one is asking for them to be given away so thats a meaningless comeback. The fact that there were neither home fans (something I disagree with) nor home fans in the lower tier of the Darwen End had a negative impact on the atmosphere in my opinion. Surcharges existing in the past is irrelevant, hes chose to keep them thus is open to judgement on them. His choice is to milk the fans who will go anyway rather than pursue getting increased attendances. Thats an approach thats up to him but one he will be judged on. You think thats a good idea but I disagree. My main point is that its unfair on Mowbray to couple him and Waggott together in praise for our recent resurgance. Mowbray had been at the club for nearly a year before Waggott showed up, which was when Mowbrays work was really starting to bear fruit, hence the 6 wins in a row. Saying they are both responsible is disrespectful and unfair to Mowbray IMO, only Mowbray deserves the praise for that.

I think in the last week or 2 most people have agreed that he has shown glimmers of promise, hence the debate moving very much on to how to use him to get the best of him, with the common conclusion that it is in his natural position as a central striker. Its impossible to remove the fee from the judgement whether people like it or not, simply because there is always the opportunity cost to consider, what else could we have got, has he fulfilled what we needed. Quotes from Mowbray saying we are lacking a striker when the one hes signed for lots of money has been earmarked as a wide man are always going to provoke a reaction. Then he played as a striker and had his most promising cameo with work in central areas. The last point you are totally right, no matter what rubbish people say contrary, everyone will be happy if he does well.

They did about the individual players. When Ferguson signed Djemba Djemba and when Jose signed Steve Sidwell, the fans undoubtedly questioned why their otherwise successful managers had signed those individual players, just like when Mowbray signed Ben Gladwin. I think that Mercers opinions on Mowbray and Brereton are very harsh but at least they are explained and constructed, whereas your arguments are not, points such as "Parson agrees with me" "stop moaning for the sake of it" "I'll trust Mowbray more than you" and "youre never happy." And you still havent said what Waggott has done to turn the club around personally. "Best chief executive since Williams" is not only the lowest benchmark you could ever set, but totally unsubstantiated. Mowbray, yes I agree hes turned the direction of the club around.

My main point is that you've blamed everyone but the manager. Why sign Kyle Bartley when you need a right back more pressingly? Even if the assistant manager is having an impact, he isnt making the final decisions, it is up to the manager at the end of the day.

Whilst @Dreams of 1995 has replied with a very well written response. I dont understand, going off on a tangent, why you have lumped Mowbray and Waggott together. What Mowbray has done to turn this club around is tangible and clear. In the shape of results, promotion win percentage, signings such as Dack. Hence the fact that regardless of the crap you peddle to the contrary, the job he has done has been met with unified appreciation. Waggott on the other hand has not done anything tangible to my knowledge to be thrown into the same sentence regarding turning the club around. Hence the mixed reputation he holds.

The thing thats costing us isnt necessarily last minute goals, but watching Villa on Friday and we are joint top for points lost from winning positions so there is mileage to that. Felt good scoring late on Saturday.

This constant crap about trusting Mowbray in an attempt to defuse any conversation on him is really counter productive. Ben Brereton will be judged on what Ben Brereton does or doesnt do. (Obviously factors such as playing out of position will be taken into consideration) Ben Brereton wont and shouldnt be judged based on Mowbrays record prior to this season because it has nothing to do with it. Ben Brereton wont and shouldnt be judged based on what Mowbray says in his interviews either.

Why do they need Hoolahan and Sako when they have Field and Burke getting splinters in their backside on the bench, or not even that? They had big bids for them 2 players and turned them down. Look when we went down, Mowbray said some of our big players wanted out but he got them motivated. Im not saying that others havent got their share of the blame but the manager isnt totally blameless, far from it and pinning their problems with setting up in a formation that doesnt suit them on Moores assistant is ridicilious. He makes the decisions, not the assistant. Brunt certainly is not a Championship central midfielder in a 2 along with Livermore, especially at his age. Moore is playing him in a way that exposes his weaknesses.

Think this is a good post. Teams who get relegated and have an urgent requirement to get back into the league they have fallen from, with obvious exceptions I admit, should tend to lean towards a manager that knows what he is doing and is proven to do so in order to get back at the first attempt. Rowett is maybe proving otherwise but I'm not convinced he is all that as a manager anyway. People may point to Swansea but it seems that theyve gone down a different route, stripping their squad of most of its experience and seemingly tried to go more long term and rely on its youth players, accepting that they may be in the league for more than one season, and feel they can afford to do that. Theyve not just appointed a former stand in like Moore, who has literally nothing to prove that he can get them back up bar a very brief caretaker spell, but someone in Potter who has a specific style that he has shown working abroad, and the whole thing there screams the word project, because he doesnt have experience of promotion either. With West Brom, they have kept many of their big players, so I like to compare to us and Wigan last season, albeit in a lower league. Cook and Mowbray have track records with promotion on them, and both took over similar situations. People are always quick to praise Mowbray for the signings hes made, but if he was to pick his first 11 if everyone was fit, I would suggest that Raya, Nyambe, Lenihan, Mulgrew, Williams, Bennett, Evans and Graham would all feature in it even now. I think this proves that the key to Mowbray getting success last season wasnt him working wonders in the transfer market, it was very much a mixed bag, it was getting the best out of the players he inherited who had the ability but im sure were not particularly keen on a season in a lower league. He has looked to develop the younger ones and motivate the older ones and thats been the key, getting them working in a structure and a consistent formation. The same with Cook, he inherited Burn, Powell, Morsy, Grigg, Jacobs etc but he got the best out of them as previous managers had failed to do, rather than totally re strip the squad.

The thing is, 19 year old prospect and 7m signing dont really go hand in hand, those defending him can point to the former and those critical can point to the latter. I dont agree with Mercers comments, especially the total disregard to age based on extreme examples such as Mbappe and Duff, but we are entitled to at least expect to see some positive signs from our expensive signing, after all he has over a season of experience under his belt already at this level as a striker, otherwise he wouldnt have this reputation and price tag to begin with. Most of the grumbles are about positioning, and most of the questions are about how differently the money could have been spent and whether we could afford such an expensive project. In regards to his ability to draw fouls is something that Forest fans seemed to be most critical of when reading up on Brereton, often suggesting that he goes down far too easy, with many people straightly suggested he is a "diver." I must say during his cameos already, I have noticed a strong tendency of his to throw himself to the ground often and in quite an exaggerated manner, as we saw yesterday for the penalty. If that is the case hopefully he will reign it in somewhat, that being said, drawing fouls is an important part in itself, Conway is an absolute master in winning free kicks and its all about knowing when to do it and not doing it all the time.

It was a rhetorical question about a point that me and you agree on (heaven forbid!) that Brereton is best as a number 9, with an example of his finest hour (and a half) in that position.

They were, hence him pulling out manager of the month level form and still going down by 5 points. You seem to be blaming everyone but the manager, even his assistant even though regardless of his ideas, he isnt the one picking the team, if Mowbray picked a wrong team people wouldnt start blaming Venus! The manager has to take the blame for aspects of their slight underachievement, an overbidding loyalty to past it, experienced players, and an inflexibility and stubbornness to play a formation that leaves 3 centre backs that are not particularly good on the ball exposed. Hoolahan was exactly what they didnt need, an experienced, 36 year old, immobile central player. Him and Sako have gone above Field and Burke in the pecking order. He didnt need to rip the team up and spend 40m. Loans such as Krychowiak and Sturridge and big egos such as McLean, Chadli and Rondon all leaving still left them with a squad consisting of some top players at this level (Rodriguez, Dawson, Hegazi, Phillips etc) as well as an undercurrent of youth that has the potential to give the team much needed legs. Why is Brunt a good player and also a player that nobody wants? Hes certainly not a player that youd want playing alongside a fellow immobile midfielder in a 2 man central midfield. I'm not necessarily saying that Moore needs to be instantly sacked, just that I can understand the West Brom fans concern and would be surprised if a change wasnt asked for sooner rather than later if it continued. He needs to take the brunt (ironically) of the blame, or the praise, dependant on how well they do. Target has to be top 2.

I think the league table defined that the last sentence is incorrect and perhaps slightly biased! To be fair to Wigan, they are missing Powell, Grigg, Jacobs and Massey amongst others. Take away Graham, Dack, Armstrong and Palmer for example and wed struggle too! Recent history shows that both teams are pretty close though, not much to seperate them at all when they have clean bills of health. Both with experienced managers too, neither should be anywhere near the bottom of this league. We've both improved on squads far too good for League 1, theyve spent much less but Windass in particular looks a good signing, building around 2 very solid spines. If I recall correctly too, they didnt "fluke" their way back into the game at Ewood, we dominated the first half and likewise them with the second. Hope Powell is still missing at the end of the month. Big blow for him to be out.

If theres a better technical player in the Championship than Pablo Hernandez, I've yet to see him. So lucky he was just coming back to fitness against us.

I felt like he forced them into a choice with a very impressive late run last season, but they were already down at that point and therefore it was never going to be a fair representation as to how they would do over the course of a season. He has Gayle, the best goalscorer in the league I would suggest, as well as players like Rodriguez and Harvey Barnes, so they will always score goals. Its the other end thats the problem, he spent decent money on Bartley who is a no-nonsense centre back at this level, but his tactics involved playing Hegazi, Bartley and Dawson, all 3 similar defenders who arent very good on the ball, playing in a way that leaves them exposed, especially with Matty Phillips as a wing back. Moore has been surprisingly reluctant to blood any youngsters, being overly loyal to many players who are past their best. Chris Brunt is never a Championship central midfielder anymore in a million years, yet he is often paired with the also immobile Livermore and at times Morrison. They have some talented young players, Oli Burke and Sam Field that have barely been used, and signings like Hoolahan seem pointless and desperate. I'd personally be surprised if he lasts the season. And @Waggy76 I believe Nick Powell is injured.

Obviously, thats a standard professional footballers answer. Any player would rather play out of position than not at all. He can still run the channels on occasion playing as a 9. The Arsenal performance you mention, where did he play then? When he retired Mertesacker and embarrassed Rob Holding? Its a difficult one, Graham like Dack has more than enough credit in the bank to excuse their poor performance (when starved of service) yesterday and I would be loathe to drop him too hastily against a team who will most likely come to Ewood and park the bus, where his hold up play may be more useful than Breretons ability to run into space. That said, he would certainly be prominent in my thinking when selecting a central striker, and nowhere near when selecting the wide men.

Not sure how I felt about it personally. I did agree with the idea in principle beforehand but it made it feel like a cup game with the whole bottom tier closed. Also highlights further the needlessness of Waggott moving us from the Darwen End.

Mostly fair. I am not a fan of judging players on youtube videos though, they are not a fair barometer. Forest fans were pretty clear in how his form dipping coincided with moving him to a wide position. The Arsenal game was amidst a spell for him it seems where he thrived centrally and I'm not on my own in really wanting to see him there for us,

The majority of conversation has been about 2 issues though, the price and the role he has to play. Very few people have done a Mercer and called him a dud. Comparisons to Duff (and Mbappe) are unneeded. Most are frustrated that hes shunted wide, I think even yesterday when he drifted into wide areas he looked a bit clumsy at times, and put in one or two poor crosses. I do think he showed that theres definitely something there if we play him where he flourished at Forest centrally though as he can run in behind centre backs and cause them problems, and he looked sharper in general yesterday. The thing is, you havent really stated any reasoning behind your view, your sole argument is to trust Mowbray, thats not an opinion.

Just seen the Bell penalty claim on the highlights which at the ground looked clear from the opposite stand but the referee got that one right. Perhaps the only thing all day that he did get right!