To point 1 and 3, Im not one for newspaper tittle tattle. Nor am I one to believe vague rumours. May be true, may be a load of rubbish. If any of them teams wanted him with any seriousness then he wouldnt be our player. I answered your second query earlier, the main things I took from what the Forest fans said were regarding his style of play, notably that he is incapable of playing wide. That said, my own opinion of him is based on what I see from my own eyes. His inability to play wide that I have seen is backed up by Forest fans. The 2 situations are totally incomparable. Ipswich fans dislike McCarthy personally, that being said any of them with any sense would have him back in a heartbeat. I am aware of their opinions, I just strongly disagree with them. I also disagree with you on the matter and we have been over it at length so lets draw a line under it.

You list 3 clubs and theres also Stoke. Thats his 4 last jobs that hes not succeeded in any of, and they are all littered with excuses. Do you not get feeling that the excuses can wear thin after a while, if its 1 or 2 jobs then fair enough but it just seems like theres always a reason and im sure there are plenty of ready made excuses for potential failure at Ipswich. You also mention Ipswich as a potential club to get a bit of time. Im not convinced that is the case. Obviously Hurst didnt last very long. McCarthys results were consistently above that which would bring his future into doubt, and it was his relationship with the fans turning toxic that eventually caused him to go. Lamberts football isnt attractive either, you couple that with his Norwich links and you can see a seemingly delusional set of fans sensing blood at the first opportunity.

- You are right on wages. Just as if Brereton cost 7m and is judged accordingly, weve had many players on high wages that have been criticised for not providing value for money. The transfer fee we pay for someone, and the wages they are on, do influence determining whether someone is a success. - No one thinks that they know better than Mowbray. Its a commonly used, stupid statement to make. We are all entitled to our opinions, hence the purpose of the messageboard, and obviously Mowbray is not always right. - Im not sure its fair to judge his potential on tenious newspaper links. Im not at all convinced that Man United or Tottenhan ever seriously looked at him. - Forest fans were also pretty insistent that Brereton is not capable of playing a wide role effectively. And was much more effective central, and Forest only played 1 up front. - How do you know "for a fact" that Marriott was first choice?

Just to clarify a couple of your misinterpretations: I never once praised McCarthys style of play. I know that it is not the easiest on the eye, my point was that with the poor players and lack of money, that was the way he had to play and was more than justified with consistent levels of overachievement with limited players. I am interested in fans opinions on Brereton predominantly in regards to his style of play and ability to play wide. This is because it is relevant to his struggles at the moment and his inability to play wide. Im not interested in what Ipswich fans think partially because they hold a personal grudge against someone who they gave untold abuse too and couldnt hack getting a tiny bit back. You arent going to get fair opinions from there.

I also listened to that but I think it was quite the opposite of what people perceive to be a potential issue here. It was more that he got promoted playing passing, possession based football, and didnt compromise on his principles against far better players in a higher league, where they were outclassed. Maybe he was stung somewhat like that as people often seem to suggest that hes too loyal to his soldiers, and too pragmatic and conservative when picking teams. Thats the opposite of what happened at West Brom. If you look at many of the players he signed in the summer (Armstrong, Palmer, Brereton, Rothwell and Reed) they are players who are young and energetic, a very different animal from his West Brom team whom with the likes of Brunt and Morrison integral to it, were good technically but often found wanting physically.

My Coyle comment was belittling your "knows the league" retort that you often use. Coyle has promotion from this league, also ages ago, and a really poor recent record. Not saying Lambert is as bad or comparing them, just highlighting that all experience isnt good experience. Not interested in what Ipswich fans think. I can clearly see that they had unrealistic expectations of the football Ipswich can play with a poor squad full of cheap players and frees, an under appreciation of the incredible consistency they had under McCarthy, and also think they have a divine right to give someone disgusting and personal abuse without any mild retaliation. They arent going to admit that they are wrong, even if the rest of the football world can see that. End of the day, there seems to be excuses for why he didnt do well in all of his last 4 jobs. Owners, budget, control, players. The common denominator is Paul Lambert. When he was here, the football was very dull. Not that I will be hypocritical and overly complain after my comments on McCarthy, but neither Hurst or Lambert will be able to give Ipswich fans football that is any more attractive than McCarthy, who at least had the results. You mention his building of a squad here, he sold our best player and signed half a team of loans, hardly long-term thinking. I cant really be bothered continuing with the Lambert debate further anyway, lets agree to disagree.

I do think that the 2 sort of go hand in hand. Yes, the main judgement would be, should Mowbray have spent that sort of money on Brereton based on his success/failure has time goes on, bu Obviously, it is not Breretons fault how much we paid for him, but when he costs as much as he did, relative to how much we have spent otherwise in the last 5 years, then he automatically has to then take on some additional pressure. I am not reaching any conclusions, and it is obvious that it is a long term project. But for that sort of money, with over a season of regular Championship football under his belt, he has to be able to contribute now. Something that Stuart touches on below, there is a difference on expectation based on price tag, which is why people dismissing it as relevant are incorrect. I think a good example is Joe Nuttall, an academy free signing who has fallen away from the first team. If that happened to Brereton in the same way, not that I am saying that will happen, but there would rightfully be far more of an inquest in to how that has allowed to happen. Likewise, with Davenport, he is a young lad but he cost a couple of hundred grand and has less experience. He has been injured up to now and hasnt barely been mentioned. If that was Brereton still awaiting his debut, people would be far more desperate to see him return.

Of course it is a factor! And it will be a factor for most so youre going to have to get used to it! When it comes to picking a team, obviously it is irrelevant. Hence why free agent Graham is first choice. But in regards to judging him as an individual, and his success/failure of a signing? Of course it is, and thats why hes attracting far more debate than anyone else. Hes a massive financial signing for our club. Hes not a youth player or a free agent whereby theres no massive loss if he doesnt work out, hes a massive chunk of our recent financial spending all on his shoulders. Of course he is young and people appreciate that but the price IS something that will always be with him, whether you like it or not. Whether he will "start scoring" is open to debate due to his goal record, but I agree that he needs to play in his correct position, if at all (not at the moment with Graham far and away our number 1 striker) which is why Mowbray has received a lot of deserved criticism in regards to using him wide. I've seen far more criticism for Mowbray playing him wide in the last week or so, over people directly criticising Brereton and his lack of threat. He was asked directly about Brereton, its hardly unique honesty by answering that question.

I dont understand why youve put "he knows the league" considering your constant insistence that they were correct to sack McCarthy! He knew the league, as does Owen Coyle, hes been promoted from it too, a considerable time ago. "Very clever man and knowledge." - Not really sure what evidence is on show to determine that either. Either way, it hasnt shown in his last 4 managerial stints. The fans clamouring for entertaining football wont be happy that to replace McCarthy, whose seemingly main crime was not able to couple his ability to constantly get the maximum from low quality players with an unrealistic desire for attractive football, firstly with Hirst who was reknown for winning 1-0 at Shrewsbury, and then by Lambert who weve seen first hand does not play attractive football. Dont personally understand why anyone would have a positive opinion of him either, comes across as very dull and boring and didnt do particularly well. Each to their own. I get your fondness for Hughes after the time he had here, scratching my head a bit regarding Lambert.

Its totally illogical to say that he shouldnt be judged based on the price he cost. The amount of money spent on him was in our recent history, a gigantic fee. It was the majority of our summer budget. Compare it to Joe Nuttall, hes gone from being a regular part of our matchday squad to seemingly out of the picture for the near future, and no one has batted an eye lid. Even if Nuttall didnt do anything for the club again, it wouldnt be as much of a big deal as it was a low cost youth signing. The fee quite frankly HAS to be and will continue to be part of the debate regarding Ben Brereton. What a big if that is. Hes scored Only 8 players got 15 goals or more last year, and half of them now play in the Premier League. In comparison, Brereton scored 8 in 53 prior to joining. Theres no suggestion that he will be capable of such a prolific season anytime soon, nor am I sure that it would make him worth quite that much anyway. Nothing wrong with that, but people will judge game by game in the meantime on an internet messageboard. And also judge the manager for the way he utilises him, which most including yourself agree has been wrongly in the last 2 games. Being "honest and open" is irrelevant, we want him to be right.

That would be a horrendous appointment. "Boring" football without the results that McCarthy guaranteed. And an ex-Norwich man to boot. That would be one relegation spot sewn up. Why good luck to him?

Raya Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Williams Rodwell Evans Reed Dack Palmer Graham Subs: Leutwiler, Bell, Smallwood, Bennett, Armstrong, Brereton, Rothwell Going to be a tough game. If Lenihan is injured then Downing to start as at least he is a centre back, albeit whoever comes in there will be a weakness. If Nyambe doesnt make it, Reed at right back, Bennett isnt up to it. And no Brereton wide or Dack number 9 rubbish.

Think its incredibly harsh to suggest that Graham is not working hard enough.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaKXy4vlJAw Here is a video of goals scored by a brilliant England striker, who as you can see never missed any chances, just scored goal after goal (and a perfect example of why you shouldnt trust youtube videos to judge players!)

I dont think that the predominant reason for his slow start is the fee weighing heavy on his shoulders. For me, the primary reason is the way that Mowbray has used him, and he has to take a large brunt of the blame for his really poor start. I have seen a couple of glimmers of positivity in his last 2 cameos that were totally absent prior to that, albeit he has never come close to a goal. I think his confidence is low and I'm sure he is feeling the pressure somewhat, but playing in him in a role that isnt natural to him, and one that he apparently struggled in at his previous club, further away from the goal, will surely only cause his confidence to drain further. You could understand it more if we didnt have Palmer and Rothwell, or even Conway, all players capable of playing the role he is often shoehorned into. There are already big question marks about spending so much on one player, especially one with such a poor goal record. But Mowbray should adopt a rule of either playing him as a striker or not at all. You mention creating his own identity @Parsonblue and I agree with that but it can only happen in his natural position.

Wasnt you was it? That would explain your dislike for him... Youtube videos are not a valid reflection. Could get you a video that makes Heskey look like Drogba. Very much so. Numerous players out of position tends to end one way. The 2 defensive ones are based on imbalanced recruitment (no back up for Lenihan and Nyambe), the attacking ones are needless tactical errors. Aye, mentioned this yesterday. Very ominous signs that he doesnt even name him!

Noticed that Chris Taylor gave the penalty away. Shocking player, massively overrated when here.

Absolutely 100% agree. Also most of the comments about Brereton yesterday where critical of Mowbray and how he is using him. I dont think we can even think of justifying breaking up the Graham and Dack partnership. But the only place Brereton should be utilised is as a striker.

Just because hes subbed off doesnt mean he cant do 90 minutes. Smallwood has been subbed off a few times and hes probably got as good a stamina as anyone.

Brereton should only be considered as a striker but no way can he be above Graham. Agree on Reed at right back barring a Nyambe return, in which case id play Reed wide and drop Rothwell. Rodwell is never a centre back. Think Potter realised pretty quickly in that second half that Bennett and Rodwell are not defenders and they ripped us to shreds down that side.

What are you on about? I agreed with you that Mowbray shouldnt play Brereton wide and Dack as a striker.

So did we on TV. (Not together haha) Agreed and he has looked like a fish out of water there and Mowbray is making a mistake playing him there. Something you agreed with on your post to be fair about him wide and Dack central. Mowbray said in his interview "Dack can play there Armstrong can play there" and didnt even mention Brereton worryingly.

You missed out in your opinion.

The fans logic on Brereton is totally backwards. He clearly doesnt have the attributes to play there and Forest fans have said that he was poor whenever he played wide for them. Hes being left out to dry by Mowbray by playing there and doesnt look comfortable there. If you want someone on to play wide, Palmer, Conway and Rothwell are more suited for that role than a number 9. If a strikers goalscoring form isnt good enough to warrant a place in his natural position, why is there a need to squeeze him in elsewhere? I dont get why Mowbray felt such an urge to change anything, we were comfortable in the first half. Evans and Smallwood were very effective. Mowbray tinkered for the sake of it and ending up tricking himself. Half the team at the end of the game were out of position and we looked ragged. Rodwells never a centre back, Dacks never a number 9, Breretons never a winger and Bennetts never a full back. Mowbray got it wrong tonight.

What a disappointing night, we were comfortable and threw it away (not the first time weve thrown away a match this season) and Mowbray has to be the main man responsible, predominantly for 2 reasons: - He simply had to prioritise signing a centre back in the summer. Not interested in excuses, or theories about not being able to get Bauer. Look elsewhere if need be. Jack Rodwell is a good technical footballer but hes never a centre back in a million years, that needs to stop. We need to pray that Lenihan has just picked up a knock. You can not get through half or even a full season with 2 competent centre backs. Beyond that, weve one more centre back who is nowhere near good enough (why did Mowbray make Downings deal permanent?) and then you are playing square pegs in round holes beyond that. Do that and expect to concede goals. - He needs to file the Brereton wide, Dack up front experiment under failed experiments along with playing 3 at the back. It quite simply doesnt work, and hes hanging his 6m striker out to dry by playing him there. Again I dont think he was too bad but hes never a wide man, nor is Dack a striker. I dont think the fact that when Graham was taken off things started to fall apart was a coincedence. Otherwise, I'd suggest that Elliott Bennetts performance was possibly the worst individual performance I've seen from a Rovers player this season. Does he realise that to make a tackle, he doesnt have to slide? He was caught miles out of position so many times, and was targeted as a liability. He isnt a right back and while Nyambe is out, I would play Reed at right back who impressed there for Norwich last season. Again, its square pegs in round holes though. Rodwell, Bennett, Dack, Armstrong, Brereton, 5 players out of position, half a team. No wonder we became so disjointed. Mulgrew was our best player by a country mile. Evans and Smallwood were good in the first half but soon became out done in the middle. Raya was very slow coming out off his line to give Celina an easy third. His kicking was also diabolical. Not sure what to make of Rothwell. I do like his energy and drive but I'm not convinced he does anything constructive with the ball. Also dont get what Palmer has done to fall so far down the pecking order. Hes already got 3 goals, his individual quality was key in winning at Bolton, yet he doesnt seem to get a sniff. A waste of a very talented player.