Theres a galling lack of empathy and an inability to see any other person circumstance aside from your own. As @Hasta touched on, obviously the surcharge wont affect you, or me in fact, regular season ticket holders. I dont understand your staunch defence of it based on the sole reasoning on Waggott said it so it must be true. I applaud the thinking outside the box re the weekend only/x number of games only season tickets but it would just encourage current season holders to downgrade. Again, youve only thought of it as you do shift work, therefore you seem to presume that everyone does. Very good post. The club may need to think outside the box rather than focusing on fleecing every penny from its core following. The overestimates sales target and lack of historical knowledge from Waggott all screams amateur to me.

Ive said before but the following: - Reduce season ticket prices slightly. They should not have been put up when we had our perfect chance to get crowds up on the back of promotion. But they should be reduced especially with the added problem of the red button, one I dont blame the club for obviously. - Remove surcharges to encourage walk ons. - Sell the top tier of the Darwen End to away fans first. - Stop moving kick off times unnecessarily, if it means not selling 8k away tickets, so be it. Otherwise home fans may struggle to make it/settle for red button. Home fans should be prioritised. Dont think things like a "x amount of games" season ticket is a wise idea as mooted by some. Will encourage some who do get season tickets to instead pay for less games. Also, damage has been done re the Darwen End fallout. You clearly dont respect others and their opinions, even though many are shared by yourself. You made some very constructive points in your last point on pricing and surcharges etc that were lost amidst you constantly bleating on about moaning, ironically.

Presuming you mean that we need more staff on match day, thats not a valid reason for me at all, as I suspect that wed get a small increase in supporters to offset the £3 per person. 12 in 69 as it stands. The thing is chaddy, a point you continue to miss, we arent talking about massive changes. But that is a significant swing considering its a totally new factor to think of. Surcharges, you agree, but surely thats hypocritical, as that is "moaning" in your eyes when things are going well on the pitch? You also then go on to suggest lower ticket prices. So why the problem with others "moaning" about the prices? I dont have a major problem with Waggott, I just have problems with some of his policies, of which youve just shared similar criticisms. What has he done at all personally that you consider to be him "trying hard to get harmony with fans" may I ask? Ramping up prices or moving some from where they want to sit without explanation isnt that. Maybe hes doing something that im missing?

If you mean Mowbray by management, nonsense. People will always judge game by game but overall hes got the whole fan base behind him. Anyone saying hes doing "a decent job" will not get any detractors. If you mean Waggott, please feel free to tell me what tangible improvements he has made, what he has done that is good? People have criticised him for valid, individual reasons. Pricing, surcharges, kick offs, moving the Darwen End, all things he is responsible for.

Which is irrelevant to the point @Mattyblue was making. Which is why he said you are missing the point. You are discussing people that cant go regardless. Totally moot, obviously thats the case, just as me and you will go regardless. The purpose of this thread is considering those who may see the red button, and usually when theyd rush home from work or whatever to sit in the cold, they might not have that motivation if its on TV. The poll shows that some people WILL be deterred somewhat. A small percentage, but still a blow. Even if we lost 1000 season ticket holders due to it, thats a big blow seeing as Waggotts pricing structure already caused us to sell less than expected. I dont point any fingers at Rovers or any other club for the red button being a deterrent. Hopefully Waggott will learn from his mistakes and make prices cheaper next season to ensure that crowds dont drop, and also as @J*B hopefully the money we receive from any TV deals compensates for any loss. Even though I will benefit personally, for example away games midweek like you are a bonus being on TV, I think from a less selfish point of view, the red button overall is not necessarily a good thing. Football needs supporters in stadiums.

Youre assuming that all fans who dont attend midweek games dont go because they cant. Point being that the red button may deter those who can, and in the past have, from attending too.

Apologies, yes the World Cup. And hes in the Liverpool team, one that finished 2nd and got to a Champions League final, over both players you mentioned, and played a big role in them doing so, as he did in England getting to a World Cup semi final. Im not claiming that he is as good as the likes of Kroos, Modric, Rakitic, Thiago, Busquets and Saul but neither are any of our midfielders. The 3 in midfield did well last night but Barkley and Winks arent regulars at their club. To suggest that we may have "seen the last" of Henderson is fanciful in the extreme, that we can discard a Liverpool regular in our weakest area after 1 game.

I dont really understand this mindset. As you touch on unsall there are different types of supporters for every team. There are supporters that go regardless, presumably you 2 are in that category. I dont agree with the season ticket rises, I dont agree with bending over backwards regarding moving kick off times to allow more away fans to attend, and I am not happy not only to have been moved from the Darwen End, but without any consultation. These are all for me valid criticisms but Ive still got a season ticket and go to some away games. Youd consider it moaning for me to point these out, but they are valid concerns pointed out by loyal attendees who have continued to back the club through thick and thin. But they arent the fans the club should be concerned about. You can call them what you like, glory hunters, fans looking for an excuse not to go, the point is we need as many of these fans in the stadium as we can, we need to try and cut out these potential excuses! Its like you are looking down on these people with the attitude of, it doesnt matter if they attend or not. It does and at a point of relative success in recent years, Waggott and co may have missed the chance to get some of these back. Missing season ticket targets are statistical evidence of that.

Theres no way, regardless of an admittedly excellent performance last night, that we should shut the door on our best player (with Trippier) at the Euros, and a staple of a very successful team at Liverpool.

Did Southgate bottle it again tonight ? Think we need to continue with the back 4, hopefully Southgate has learnt that the 4-3-3 is much better for us in terms of both keeping the ball a bit better (I thought wed struggle v arguably the best 2 midfields in terms of ball retention) and also getting a third man in attack. One interesting thing is where do Dele Alli and Jesse Lingard fit back in when they are fit? We arent in a position to discard them entirely as they are 2 good playees but both are number 10s which we dont play. Ross Barkley has impressed me with his intelligence and discipline in both games. Also think Chilwell deserves a run at left back. Henderson and Stones would also warrant a start youd think. Need to ensure that we dont try and shoe horn 2 right backs in just because we are strong there. Walkers never a centre back.

Incredible first half performance and result. Front 3 absolutely superb, great to see Sterling tear Spain apart. Alarming how deep we ended up in the second half and 2 really poor goals to concede. Pickford is like an outfield player in net. Passing as good as anyone and key to our 3 goals. If he didnt have that hed be nowhere near the England side. Chilwell was superb, Barkley impressed too, as did Joe Gomez and Maguire A very entertaining match.

He has given many debuts out, he gave Chilwell a full debut and brought Sancho in off the bench. He has given many debuts out and did say earlier in the week that he was wary of giving out many last night because he didnt want their debut to be behind closed doors. I'm not convinced Maddison has a place in this team, hes a 10 rather than part of a 3 man midfield, Mount I'd love to see get some game time on Monday. I hate seeing Henderson and Dier together, the former I rate, the latter is crap. But Southgate could turn around and say they did what most cant and nullified Modric and Rakitic, something we failed to do in the World Cup. We got a credible draw and should have won but for 4 huge chances missed.

Our midfield is short on quality but im not sure how thats his fault. Thats the first time hes played Henderson and Dier together in a long while, and it took both Alli and Lingard being out for him to do so. I wouldnt play them together, Henderson is good, Dier isnt, but he is hardly flush full of alternatives. Barkley was given another chance and did ok in bits and the change from a back 3 (a formation Southgate seemed stubbornly stuck to) actually enabled us to have a lot more possession and nullify one of if not the best central trio in international football. Southgate did say he was cautious of giving debuts out in an empty stadium, Sancho has mainly been having an impact for Dortmund off the bench and under previous managers he wouldnt have got near the squad. He should potentially start over Rashford on Monday for me though. Mount and Maddison have done well, the latter doesnt really fit into the formation however. Im hardly a devout Southgate fan but you are massively going over the top.

What tonight has warranted this comment?

I think he played for England U19s (not 100% if thats the right age group) and returned back late from pre season. He also didnt make any Forest squads before he came.

My point is not necessarily the amount, but the fact that they increased prices at the best possible time to try and boost attendances. Waggott had the perfect chance following promotion, with a price freeze/price reduction and some clever marketing to get more season ticket holders in, ergo regular supporters. Instead he chose to squeeze more pennies out of the current season ticket holders who would have renewed (in the main) regardless, surely not as naive/idiotic as he has tried to come across today as to how that would stunt any prospect of maximising attendances. Surcharges might not affect "much" but even if its a slight impact, its still one that was unavoidable. Dont put words into my mouth. I was personally most aggravated by the Darwen End closure, without consultation or solid reasoning, but not in relation to what we are discussing. I think the main problem is the pricing followed by the surcharges.

Thanks @Red for your very in depth and promising posts. He has only had cameos in his time here, due to the superb form of Danny Graham. Not only is Graham good in his own right but he is perfect to get the best out of Dack. When Brereton did play wide he looked like a fish out of water so that tallies up. He will have to wait for a regular place in his natural position I would imagine. What you say about him running with the ball is very encouraging, it has not been on show yet, hes looked a bit sluggish but mainly weve assumed thats a lack of fitness. I only recall seeing him once, when he ran Arsenals second string ragged and probably accelerated Mertesackers retirement. Unfortunately I have seen him dive and throw himself over quite a few times already, hopefully he will learn from that side of the game as its not good to see and he isnt even convincing doing it! Our fans will give him time but there is a lot of intrigue about a player who cost so much money relative to our recent spending power. His cameos have been ineffective, however I think the brunt of the mystique around him is about us spending so much on a player who is not ready to come straight into the team, and how else that could have been spent.

The problem is you are focusing on uncontrollables, work, logistics, TV choices, and pinning everything on that. Obviously the attendances only have the potential to go up so much, but there are so many things that we can control, all repeatedly mentioned, price, surcharges, when season tickets are released, aggravating fans by moving them, moving kick offs etc, all of which you seem reluctant to accept that they may, to varying degrees, have an impact on attendances. You are asking Waggott to be proactive with some of your suggestions regarding younger fans, something he is yet to prove he is capable of. Absolutely correct. Otherwise there wouldnt be a ticket sales target in the first place! There are so many things that can be controlled and manipulated to increase attendances, that in my opinion simply havent. To then pin the blame onto the fans is very poor of Waggott.

You could flip that and say why do they feel the need to increase it by such a low amount if its so insignificant? Same with the surcharge. If they froze prices or even slightly reduced them, they could really promote that, ideally around the Oxford game at peak levels of fan happiness. Even if it only seems like a small amount, you have to realise that this isnt to people who get a season ticket regardless, who prioritise getting a season ticket and budget accordingly. This is to people that are on the fence. Its much easier to lose season ticket holders than to gain them, and you cant be blaze and arrogant enough like Waggott is to think, the product is much better, they should come back regardless of how much we charge and how we treat the fans. This summer should have been solely focuses on increasing attendances. Assuming the positive feeling remains on the pitch and in terms of fans being united behind the manager and players, once you get people back into the habit by tempting them initially at a point of high interest, you can then look at prices down the line. For me the most startling aspect of the interview is the lack of responsibility and the naivety/arrogance of Waggott as mentioned above. The players and manager have done their bit but he seems oblivious to the fact that he has a part to play and at the moment hes failing. The article today gauging fan opinion of those who dont have a season ticket shows that cost is a primary factor preventing attendances from increasing.

He started v Bolton too. Yeah he probably would, seems to love playing for his country so theres no way we can stop him really.

Agreed, it would be like saying Teddy Sheringham, Dennis Bergkamp and Antoine Griezemann were/are midfielders. I do think he partially thrives off being the main man to be fair, always in his favoured position.

Im not sure we can really complain. Scotlands game yesterday was a competitive one, so he was always going to go. He also reiterated I believe that he wants to play for Scotland for as long as possible.

I never said that he shouldnt be entitled to his opinion. I just echo others that he is arguing against a point that is at best, hugely exaggerated. He mentioned the positive of the difference between Coyles team and todays team and he could have focused on that as a positive individual point. Instead he went well off on a tangent. He is entitled to an opinion just as I am entitled to state that its nonsense and based around nothing. I also feel that your suggestion is unfounded. Mowbray isnt perfect, he will make mistakes and decisions people agree with, we are on an internet messageboard, people give their opinions (as Simon did and is entitled to) and obviously sometimes those opinions are heated in terms of criticising players and the manager when the frustration is raw. You may see Mowbray got it wrong crop up but its never with the punchline that he should go as a result. The fanbase is unifed behind Mowbray and its both incorrect and a bit underhand to state otherwise. As I said before, the fairest way to prove either of us right or wrong is a poll, is Mowbray the man to take us forward.

It was a 35 minute cameo.

I think even smattering is a vast exaggeration.