Palmer does have 3 goals to be fair, hes not done enough wrong to be below Armstrong I would suggest.

We dont have enough centre backs to play 3 at the back permanently, although it never seems to work anyway.

If theyd prefer Carvalhal over the bottom 2 then they are idiots.

Bolton have started better than expected but are a team of frees cobbled together. Need to go and play our way there. Could do with a win as tonights loss makes recent dropped points look more costly. Raya Bennett Lenihan Mulgrew Williams Smallwood Evans Palmer Dack Rothwell Graham

Mowbray got it totally wrong tonight. Seemingly showed Sheffield United too much respect, no pressing at all as clearly instructed, and not playing our natural game. Tinkering between formations too. If Mulgrew is fit for a half why is he not starting? Bizarre. No idea how Reed got man of the match but why is he taking corners when he is so bad at them? Brereton spending over 2 minutes tieing his lace summed up his cameo. Think he had his boots on the wrong feet. Ball never stuck and looks so flimsy. Dack and in particular Armstrong looked like they couldnt be arsed. Nor what their role was. Rothwell showed far more hunger but just kept running into traffic.

Apologies, I meant the team you said looked good. I hope he plays 4 at the back like we both suggested in our teams. It would still be a negative change. Armstrong deserves to start, certainly not benched in favour of a third centre back.

For sure. That said, its a bit deceptive in that we had Brereton on the bench and Armstrong who you missed who cost at least 8m between them. The summer has removed us from being one of the teams struggling to scrape 2 pennies together. That said, there is quite a few academy players in there which is good. As you say its the wages that are the main difference. With the likes of Mulgrew, Evans, Bennett, Graham etc and the new deals dotted out in the summer id guess we were again mid range in Championship terms but miles away from Villa and co.

Agreed 47er. Need to concentrate on our own strengths, especially at home. 3 at the back has in the main failed in the past and we are doing ok with 4. Lets hope Mowbray sticks with 4 at the back and brings in Armstrong for Nyambe, with Bennett back at right back. And obviously Mowbray has more knowledge than us chaddy but thats a silly point to make. May as well shut down the messageboard if thats your argument. Your formation relies on Reed as primary support to Dack and Graham, a man with 2 goals in his career. Bell gets so far forward and shits himself, so hes hardly going to scare Sheffield United either!

Looks incredibly negative to me.

Aye I know but theyve lost Snodgrass, Terry and Grabban and their summer was a mess what with them seemingly only being able to bring anyone in at the end. Very much on a different level in terms of wages though, thats for sure. We are in the middle id say in that we have certainly spent more than a lot of teams in the League but arent on the same level as Stoke, Villa, Forest and a few others.

Wages perhaps but didnt they spend less than us, only buying Nyland and McGinn, or am I missing someone? Obviously I know they have spent loads on wages for Abraham, Bolasie etc.

Sadly I think you are right. https://www.rovers.co.uk/news/2018/october/tonys-injury-update/ "Playing three at the back is another option for us, of course, we can do that. I think it will be a pretty tactical game tomorrow, let's wait and see." Expect the same team as the one you picked bar Williams for Rodwell. Also suspect Reed will be playing off Graham, him and Dack. Stick to 4 please Tony.

Agree with that team but have to have Palmer on the bench over Conway or Travis.

We dont have the resources at centre back to move Lenihan, hopefully the return of Mulgrew will somewhat settle him. If Lenihan wasnt to play at centre back for whatever reason then I dont feel that he would be anywhere near the reckoning to play anywhere else. Far better options both at right back and in midfield. Also it wouldnt do his confidence much good possibly exposing him out of position I certainly wouldnt go to 3 at the back but it was something that crossed my mind the other day that Mowbray may consider to match Sheffield United. Hope not though.

I think any clamour to drop Lenihan goes with the lack of a centre back signing in the summer. The alternatives are an average League 1 centre back, a left back and a central midfielder. Makes no sense to drop him unless his form really does dip beyond belief. Lenihan is very much a blood and thunder centre back that does compliment Mulgrew who he relies on to help him through somewhat. Mulgrew is a better defender who doesnt have the rawness that Lenihan has, but obviously he has time to improve and certainly enough to warrant us looking to do just that. The thing is he obviously needs to use his brain more often as being brave and throwing yourself in isnt enough. Any calls for him to be moved into midfield to avoid him giving away penalties are absurd. All of his positive attributes that obviously can be built on are the ones of a centre back, including his athleticism as you said. In midfield his main weakness (on the ball) would be exposed in an instant.

Yeah it is definitely something that can become a trend and is very difficult to eridicate once that is the case so we need to look at closing games out as we did last year. Nothing worse than conceding at the end.

Not necessarily counter attack, more holding the ball up perhaps? Against Ipswich when Nuttall came on for Graham and against Stoke Brereton did. Neither were half as effective at holding the ball up and thus pressure kept coming. Although Rothwell wasted a perfect counter attacking chance v Stoke too. Definitely has to be a mixture of things though, not just bad luck. Rash fouls, ie Reed v Villa and Lenihan v Stoke (although we didnt throw any points away the panic and almost collapse was a big worry) leading to set pieces. Natural instinct/lack of fitness(?) leading to defending deeper? The mental aspect of knowing it has happened before?

Excellent post. And has Waggott shown any signs of being able to do anything at all about any of the points you mention? Nope.

Id like to think those comments are just him publically protecting the team rather than anything else. I hope he does see it as something to rectify. He mentions teams throwing men forward as if its inevitable that a goal will result. Also specifically mentions Villa and Ipswich believing we deserved to win. Even if we did, the whole point of the criticism is that we arent getting the points over the line, for whatever reason.

Neither did Dack or Bennett. Theres definitely a balance so I do understand to an extent but I dont think we should be too over cautious either, dropping our best player at the moment would cause a big problem. Hes obviously got the chance to rest up next week so lets get what we can out of him in these next 2 games. Palmer has gone to being dropped from your squad to having 2 places on the bench? ?

Graham is apparently the fittest hes ever been under Mowbray. Hes proving people wrong and in fact Dack looked tired at the end of the Forest game whilst Graham seemed fine. Has to start.

Hope Mulgrew is fit, suspect he might sit out until the international break but fingers crossed as we need him alongside a shaky Lenihan. Going to be a tough game. Raya Bennett Lenihan Mulgrew Williams Evans Smallwood Reed Dack Armstrong Graham Subs: Leutwiler, Bell, Rodwell, Palmer, Rothwell, Brereton, Travis

You are not going to Bolton away partially due to the high ticket price. If it was £27 would you have the same complaint? And if it makes no difference, spin it round, why charge it in the first place?

Strange comment, the same could be said for anything on this messageboard, me and a couple of other posters were having a debate about the issue, surely the forum is for such discussions? Splitting hairs again there, call them what you like, the players I listed are the types which I'm referring to, you know what I mean. How do you know? Lets hope Mowbray has a more proactive approach than, yes we could look at ways to win more games but the referees are the problem so lets just sit back and blame them! Yesterday he did I agree. But we should and am sure are looking at ways to turn draws into wins and hold on to leads more often. We can always improve. Look at Man City, 100 point champions yet they went out and signed Mahrez because even they can improve. Hope he can play as hes been a key player this season.

The ranking within the team is slightly deceiving due to the turnover of wide men that we had. In the first half of the season obviously Chapman was here for a bit, and Antonsson was regularly played wide before his injury on the cusp of the year. After January, Armstrong took over on one side, and Payne also played a big part. I personally didnt think 2 goals and 5 assists in 41 games was enough for an experienced Championship player. That said, I am happy with his performances and specifically, his attacking play this season