Considering them comments and the inability of our other players who have been tried wide (wide players wouldnt be accurate as we dont have them) to nail down a starting spot, I would be very surprised and dissapointed to see Rothwell on the bench tomorrow.

Going to be a tough game again. Looking forward to it and hope we perform better than on Tuesday night and get the 3 points. Raya Nyambe Lenihan Mulgrew Williams Reed Evans Bennett Dack Rothwell Graham Subs: Leutwiler, Bell, Smallwood, Palmer, Armstrong, Brereton, Downing

I agree that overall judgements on him shouldnt be made. Writing him off totally, or saying he will definitely be a success. Obviously we have nowhere near enough evidence to make a final critique. My point is more that judgements on individual games can and will be made. He was crap v Villa and theres nothing wrong with saying so. As long as that isnt de-contextualised into an overall judgement. There are a lot of things to potentially be optimistic about regarding Brereton, and also plenty of things to be concerned about. We will see in time how they play out. I personally havent seen anyone like that but fair enough if you have.

Youve expressed 3 primary reservations that you have about the deal, none of which are based on a knee jerk reaction to a couple of poor cameos: - Price tag and use of funds baring in mind other weaknesses in the squad - Goal record - Age and readiness to perform immediately I think they are all fair concerns, as long as you arent saying hes a bad signing or a poor player which you arent.

I think that the majority of supporters have similar viewpoints to you on Nyambe. I gave examples, especially Evans who people rate after people have previously said he is not up to it, after a series of good performances. And never have they at the ground, only on an internet messageboard. Im not saying he will be a bad signing, and im not convinced that many if any are righting him off, just expressing concerns. I would agree, my main issue is with the phrase "dont judge him yet" which is meaningless.

I do agree with many of your points, notably that Brereton will improve with time, that he is part of a young, vibrant core (important to appreciate the experience of the likes of Mulgrew and Graham too however) and I think most if not all would agree with that. My sole point was in regards to judging him after every game, everyone gets judged on every performance and thats how it will always be. Call a spade a spade, if someone plays poorly, as I and many others thought he did on Saturday, he will be judged as such. If he or anyone else plays well, they will be praised. I think the majority of fans have the ability to adapt their view from week to week, season to season. Look at Corry Evans, the most maligned player in the squad ahead of the season. Hes been given unanimous praise for his first 8 games this season. I thought Nyambe was a massive liability at one point, now I think he is a very competent full back. Dacks our best player and had a stinker the other night. Im not sure that your comment on implying that the fans will get on Breretons back is fair either.

I disagree if you have constructive reasoning behind such an opinion. Brereton has a poor goal record for example, therefore questions may be raised about that. That said, theres a lot of potentially exciting aspects to the signing. If Brereton scores the winner on Saturday and plays well, he will be judged positively on that individual performance, and judged negatively should he play poorly. Like anyone else.

We need to remove this notion whereby we will ever get to the stage where a player will play and supporters will prevent their natural instinct from forming an opinion on that particular performance. Whether the player has been here for 10 years or half an hour. As long as people dont accompany it with things like hes a waste of money based on that solitary cameo, then theres nothing wrong with it at all. It goes without saying that he is not fully fit, didnt play in his natural position and wont have fully settled, but he played crap, just as on Saturday Armstrong and Lenihan did, whereas Mulgrew and Smallwood played well. The people who have given examples from Forest are basing it almost exclusively on video footage of his best bits. His goal record suggests that the consistency clearly isnt there yet, and I have read plenty of both positives and doubts about the player from Forest fans, 2 of which, that he throws himself over a lot and that he is next to useless out wide were both in show in that cameo. The deal in the main was brought with inquisitive excitement but it goes with the territory of a massive fee to expect that to be taken into account. But in his only 2 cameos, in particular on Saturday when the game was in the balance unlike the lost cause at Bristol, that is our only possible judgement grounds in a Rovers shirt and in the relevant place, it is valid to state if people think he was poor. You dont have to have a list of alternatives to be able to judge a player. That said, like I have said on other threads, my view on Brereton is unchanged really overall despite a very poor cameo on Saturday due to a series of mitigating circumstances.

I personally think you are being incredibly kind to him! Dont recall these nice touches and aeriel duals he won. That said, agree on him out wide being pointless and that for me, he is ahead of Armstrong (based on Armstrongs poor performances) and behind Graham.

I think you are reading into said comments out of the context of what they are, judgements of an individual performance. People judge every player on every performance, thats the whole point of individual match threads. Brereton was really poor when he came on v Villa and looked sluggish and kept throwing himself over. You cant expect people to not judge player performances. That said, Brereton isnt fully match fit and crucially he was out of position. But his performance was poor, people arent going to come on after the Villa game and say, Mulgrew was good, great goal by Dack, Raya at fault for the goal, Lenihan all over the place, midfield much improved, ie go through the team and then go Brereton I refuse to comment on yet. If anyone is saying hes a waste of money or a bad signing then it goes without saying saying that they are massively overreacting. But I havent seen any quotes suggesting that. Im guessing the Kevin Davies thing you mention was a reference to a comparison someone has made. If so, again thats unfair.Saying he played poorly in a match or saying hes a bad signing are 2 totally different things. And its impossible to totally ignore the price tag when it was such a massive amount of money. I think in general, the discussion about his signing has been more so the type of player that he is. Just because he is 6 foot odd doesnt make him a targetman.

That doesnt mean he can ever be an effective target man. People thought Sam Gallagher was a target man but he jumped at 5 foot 5. Breretons main asset is his pace and ability to go in behind. Think this is unfair, as @K-Hod explained much more clearly than I could! Youve in essence done the same to Armstrong on another thread, saying hes a 1 good game in 10 type, after a half season in which he was consistently excellent in the bank. People are just commenting on his performances thus far, which have been few and far between and obviously not indicative on the level of success he will or wont have here. No one is saying theyve seen enough but just like people said Reeds cameos have been promising, Rothwells cameos have been promising, Brereton against Villa was poor albeit out of position. Overall im still none the wiser about how well he will do here but for now Graham deserves the shirt more.

He was best for us when on his own with someone like Dunn as a 10. That said he proved here he can score goals regardless as long as he gets game time.

Ewood legend is an exaggeration in the extreme.

We need to get every last minute that he can give us. He is still crucial at his age. Like I said, is there much difference between half an hour at the end or 60 minutes and taking him off, if he cant do any more? So you think 9 players played well and 2 were solely to blame for being outplayed? Fair enough, but Swansea didnt score so im not sure how you can justify replicating their approach. My apologies, brilliant team. And I hope the irony of you pointing out spelling errors isnt lost on you.

He had 2 or 3 moments where he caused blind panic, where I had my heart in my mouth, particularly when he spilt the ball in the first half in a comedy of consecutive errors. His distribution was horrific and a big contributing factor in the wave of attacks for Derby as we struggled for a kick. Hes very, very young for a keeper, but im judging him on his performances, and I wouldnt like to defend in front of him due to his eccentric nature. I am not saying we should play Leutwiler, or that he doesnt have potential, or that he isnt capable of very good saves. There was a lot of last ditch defending because as a team, we failed to maintain possession, we were reckless in our pressing, we failed to manage the game effectively by slowing it down, the ball kept coming back because there was no out ball in attack, and too many individuals were having an off day and not contributing. I dont doubt that Derby are one of the better teams in the division but we made it easy for them to slaughter us for 60 minutes, until they ran out of ideas and we improved. It was an incredibly lucky point but one that as a result, not taking into account performance, is a good one. We didnt play well as a team chaddy, it was along with Bristol City a performance that was far below the standards we have set, which has seen us very competitive in our other games and picking up points in them all. That said, we showed a lot of spirit that I never doubted was there, that was possibly, aside from the result, the only positive. And your Evans comment "seems a little over critical for my view"

I dont have a clue chaddy, and I havnt got the time to look it up for you. If he tires, bring him off sure but he is a crucial player. The aim was to play on the counter attack yesterday and nothing stuck until we brought on our best striker. His introduction made a massive difference. You seem reluctant to admit he is such an important player, ever since last season when you repeatedly wrote him off. I dont want us to cause problems like Swansea did, and not score a single goal! How do you know they caused them such problems? I never said Stoke are a brilliant team but their central midfield is far superior, as was Derbys, and we dont want them to dominate in the same way. We need that out ball.

I dont think we will get near the play offs sadly but neither do I think we will be in significant relegation danger. We definitely have some good players at this level but our squad seems imbalanced and lacking in certain areas. We signed some decent players in the summer but im not sure we did it in a totally balanced fashion, nor do I think that Mowbray knows his best team. There are big questions at the moment about our ability to control and manage games at this level. That said I think we will be fine.

Agree on Armstrong not taking his chance but Graham has to start. If he is knackered after an hour then fine but he was rested yesterday but looked fine throughout. Stoke have Allen, Woods and Etebo in central midfield so I could see a repeat in terms of their midfield dominating so we need Graham to be able to hold things up and to relieve any situations of constant opposition pressure. My worry with Brereton is that he isnt the type of striker who will allow us to take the pressure off like Graham does.

I think you have overstated the impact of Smallwood and Evans tonight. During the first half they failed at any point to try and keep the ball to stunt the momentum that was at times relentless. I do also think however that we missed Mulgrews composure behind them. Also, for all of the commments in regards to their defensive nous, so much of our defence was last ditch, so they werent really struggling to penetrate through our midfield. Evans has had a good season in general and was the pick of the 2 tonight but Smallwood, both defensively and on the ball, is failing to establish himself at this level. Also dont get the praise for Raya. His decision making is as much a contributing factor as any to the shakiness and last ditch element of our defending at times. There were a few times when he was all over the place, spilling things and making poor decisions, added to some woeful kicking and he fails to instil any confidence. Totally agree on the comments on Graham who gets more important with each passing week.

Rothwells problem is that he is competing with Armstrong and Palmer for one spot essentially, with Mowbray favouring one defensive winger and with Dack being a given. That said, he deserves a chance on Saturday. Reed I dont think has earnt the trust yet of Mowbray. He mentioned him charging down the wing on Saturday as a negative even though it led to a goal. He wants discipline from his 2 central midfielders hence his overbearing loyalty towards Smallwood. He knows exactly what his job is, problem is v better midfielders he is outclassed.

But I think Smallwood is as guilty as anyone of giving up possession. The soldier and artist analogy I get to an extent but even if you are one, you need to be a bit of the other. For example, Smallwood is a soldier but he needs to at least be competent on the ball and in possession, same with Lenihan. No good if you win the ball back and give it straight back again. Conversely, our artists need to do at least their fair share of hard work. I dont think the side was more cautious than normal, I just feel that he got his tactics totally wrong, something he as good as admitted with changes that made us improve. Also, no idea why Smallwood is on set piece duty. He is shocking at them.

The problem is, spoiling only gets you so far, you need to then keep the ball otherwise you are in a cycle of attacks for the opposition. Agreed on the 3 you mention at the bottom. I think all 3 were equally poor, Palmer seems to be getting the brunt of the criticism but they were all poor.

Bell did well in the last half hour but to be honest its a flip of a coin decision. Not much in it. Evans has had a far better season than Smallwood. You keep saying he cant play x and he cant play y but he has played 90 minutes quite a few times. His fitness is seemingly a bit better than we give him credit for, hes always been slow but it doesnt stop him being effective. He was excellent when he came on again. Ask Dack who he wants to play with and I bet I can guess the answer. Lets play Graham rather than picking someone solely based on the logic of Swansea apparently causing Stoke problems in a game you didnt see and one in which they failed to score. Brereton should be next in line with Armstrong not taking his chance.

2 questions: I know you wrote off Graham for a lot of last season, but surely you now appreciate that he has to be first choice at the moment? His hold up is a crucial out ball and we look lost without him. You were staunchly in defence of giving Conway a new deal. Surely you think that maybe that was a mistake? Hes never a Championship player nowadays.

Very poor performance, especially the first 60 minutes. Wave after wave of attack, we stole a point which is a bonus. The lack of control in central midfield was startling and it needs changing in there. Smallwood is no more than a squad player for me and if we have signed 3 central midfielders and none can threaten his place, we have a problem. Evans has dipped slightly but was better than Smallwood for me. When we are under the cosh we seem unable to get our foot on it and manage the game. Mowbray got his team selection and tactics totally wrong, theres no dressing that up. He shouldnt have picked Conway but I was at least impressed that he realised that and didnt wait to change it. Raya was at times embarrassing. Some of his handling, decision making and kicking would have been hilarious had I not been a Rovers fan. Graham my man of the match, he has to start every game he is fit at the moment. Some terrific hold up and should have an assist but from a rare sitter by Dack. Armstrong doesnt look like a Championship striker by any means. Dack was not in the game at all, and Palmer likewise. Nyambe was decent, but offered nothing again going forward. Bell was as shaky as anyone up until the last half hour when he was much improved. Williams was fine, Lenihan is really poor on the ball but you cant fault his committment. Mulgrew, Reed, Rothwell, Bennett and Graham should come in for Bell, Smallwood, Palmer, Conway and Armstrong I think at Stoke. Derby were poor too, they ran out of ideas and a better side would have scored a hatful tonight.