Second midfielder - shoot-out.

[den]

This is the result when the poll was closed yesterday. No of votes, followed by percentage of the vote:

Jimmy forrest.............[ 59 ].....[32.78%]

Tim Sherwood...........[ 58 ]......[32.22%]

Eddie Latheron..........[ 15 ].....[8.33%]

Mark Atkins................[ 14 ].....[7.78%]

David Batty................[ 11 ].....[6.11%]

Tony Parkes...............[ 8 ].......[4.44%]

Stuart Metcalfe..........[ 5 ]........[2.78%]

Simon Barker.............[ 4 ]........[2.22%]

Howard Kendal.........[ 3 ]........[1.67%]

Eddie Quigley............[ 2 ]........[1.11%]

Harry Healess............[ 1 ]........[0.56%]

Total Votes: 180

However, following some of your suggestions for having a shoot out if there was no CLEAR winner, I had a word, in the middle of last week, with FLB who put the case forward for Jimmy Forrest and with Brownie who put the case forward for Tim Sherwood.

Have to say they both agreed to a shoot out, even though, at the time I asked them, their man was losing! Great spirit guys. We had decided that if the difference was 5 votes or less we would have this shoot out.

So pretty soon I'll put the poll up for a winner takes all shoot out between Sherwood and Forrest only.

In the meantime, FLB and Brownie are going to put forward good reasons why their man should win.

Well done guys.

Your comments are very welcome.

[Brownie]

To me Tim Sherwood was the ultimate modern day footballer.

Fully committed to the cause, 100% effort every game and the crucial ability to win a game with a bit of magic.

Sherwoods ball control was first class, he could kill a ball stone dead with chest or boot. He was strong in the air and fierce in the tackle.

During the Premiership winning season, Sherwood refused to lie down before any team whether he was alongside Atkins or Batty, any side needing to beat Rovers, had to battle against a strong relentless midfield.

His pass completion was remarkable, every single game his completed passes ratio was the highest percentage of any Rovers player.

What made this all the more commendable was Sherwood was always looking for the killer through ball which would open up defences.

Alan Shearer knew his worth and regularly profited from such balls, the exquisite chipped ball played through to Shearer to equalise at Newcastle is one that immediately springs to mind, but there were many more.

Sherwood was also a born leader, a fact Kenny Dalglish was quick to pick up on. Sherwood was often seen berating his defenders for conceding sloppy goals and equally effective at geeing them up.

Sherwood went on to win the Supporters Player of the Year award later in his career before making Rovers a tidy profit when transferring to Tottenham for £4 million where he went on to represent England.

Sherwood went from being a target of the Boo boys to being Premiership winning captain, winning the fans over in the meantime.

For the sake of this vote, ask yourself, who was the better footballer ? Forrest or Sherwood ? If by some press of a key we were able to send this side out into a contest with a similarly selected side from Burnley, who would you rather have in your side ?

Then vote Sherwood.

[greggyk]

What a fix

surley it could not have been that close!

Edited November 22, 2004 by greggyk

[den]

What a fix

surley it could not have been that close!

I can bring the whole thread back, if you don't believe me.

[mhead]

Any reaction from Tim Sherwood? Beaten by a stiff.

Bitter Latheron supporter..1 more vote than Super-Atko.

[samtheozzy]

Why have a shoot-out at all Den (sorry if this has been covered). Whether you win by a goal or by 5 goals it doesn't matter does it? More people voted for Forrest so surely he should get the nod. If this turns out like the US "election" where the guy with less votes eventually wins....

[FourLaneBlue]

There is a saying in football that is popular with beleagured managers who have known better times. It tends to be used by an arrogant so-and-so who believes they know better than the press or the fans or even their own players for that matter. Ferguson, Souness...those types. I'm going to use it here though not to attack anybody but to support them instead. The phrase is...

"Show us your medals"

If I was Jimmy Forrest I'd probably say..."show me a table that's big enough to hold 'em first pal..."

I'd also be dead of course because Forrest went long ago to the football pitch in the sky but that doesn't mean we should disregard the man or his achievements. I'm not a fan of the negative type of campaigning that has been going on by those in favour of both Forrest and Sherwood. Saying people are morons if they don't vote a certain way or belittling the achievements of players because they happened so long ago. Sod it...let's look at what they achieved for Rovers instead. If you want to vote Sherwood do so and likewise if it's Forrest then fair enough. Just have a little think about it first...that's all you have to do to have grasped the point of these debates. Then vote for whoever you want and sod what the rest think.

In terms of honours won with Rovers Forrest is the most succesful player we have ever had. Five FA Cup winners medals...nobody has ever beaten that, for Rovers or any other sides for that matter. They are a long time ago sure but why cast aside our history? It is after all what the club is all about...the tradition, the institution, the Rovers. Forrest stands out in our history and we are talking about him well over a century later on. Now if that doesn't make him a 'great' then nothing will. To my mind that is the definition of a great. To be remembered for their achievements. Forrest also won shedloads of other competitions with Rovers...that was when we were the greatest team in the world. It has happened very often, at most only twice (the cup-winning sides and the pre-WWI double title-winning team) and Forrest was the star of the side.

Forrest used to be in the mould of an attacking central midfielder who burst forward to support the forwards in the box and latch on to any chances. It certainly worked well for him. After all...he scored in two FA Cup finals. In another two different FA Cup finals he lifted the trophy as the winning captain. Success was something that seemed to be permanently welded to Forrest. With it by his side he inspired the Rovers for twelve years. Jimmy was not one of those journeyman types who pottered around playing for this club and that. When he joined Rovers he stayed...and was a first team regular for over a decade. Captain for seven years. Seven! Not many others can beat that for service to the club. Forrest was the only player to play in all five of Rovers' FA Cup winning finals. The FA Cup was by far the most important honour available then, even more important than the Premiership is now. Some teams look to Europe...in those days there was only ever the cup, the cup, the cup. Rovers were champions five times out of eight. They were the first ever truly great footballing team. The club obviously knew a winner when they saw one...they wouldn't see another until Bob Crompton came along. Like Crompton, Forrest stayed involved with Rovers for a good twenty or so years after finishing playing. Forrest stood out in probably the greatest ever Rovers side. Just because it happened a long time ago does not mean we should forget our glorious past.

It wasn't just Rovers who Forrest was a regular for. There was also England. Although his eleven caps may not sound so impressive, due to the limited number of games it was. It meant he was a regular for a good six years. Forrest also joined a select band. Rovers players who have captained England. There are but three of them. Crompton and Clayton already have their places in the 'Greatest Ever' side...Forrest is the other. Might be a good idea to have an England captain in the side eh?

One last thing about Forrest...he was a Rovers fan. One of us. Born locally and devoted to the club once he joined. Like Douglas and Crompton before him he was a Roverite and a Blackburn lad.

Forrest has won this poll once...winning seems to come with the territory with him. I'm not going to have a go at Sherwood to help my case for Forrest. Jimmy doesn't need me to...

Jimmy Forrest - 5 FA Cup winners medals - twelve years at Rovers - local lad - England captain - A natural for the 'Greatest Ever XI'.

[Alex Rover]

Don't agree with this shoot-out, surely it defeats the object of a vote but regardless, FLB you've sold me, Jimmy Forrest it is then.

[FourLaneBlue]

Don't agree with this shoot-out, surely it defeats the object of a vote but regardless, FLB you've sold me, Jimmy Forrest it is then.

It was mainly because some members seemed to get a bit annoyed because they believed people were telling others who to vote. Den, Brownie and myself agreed to do this shootout if the votes were very close to stop the complaining. As it turns out...Forrest ended up winning but we decided on doing this about Thursday which would be fair.

Also...hopefully there will be one clear winner this time and so no more complaining that people are getting their mates to register and vote!

[broadsword]

Also...hopefully there will be one clear winner this time and so no more complaining that people are getting their mates to register and vote!

Maybe new registrations should be suspended until the vote is over?

[den]

Why have a shoot-out at all Den (sorry if this has been covered). Whether you win by a goal or by 5 goals it doesn't matter does it? More people voted for Forrest so surely he should get the nod. If this turns out like the US "election" where the guy with less votes eventually wins....

One of the problems Sam, is when do we stop the vote, if it's so close. We could say just declare the winner whatever the margin, but that wouldn't necessarily give us the real winner - that lead could have changed within an hour of closing.

Every other position has shown a clear winner, it would be nice if we could finish up with a team of clear winners.

We'll find out soon if we can get a clear winner on this one.

[den]

All we ask is that you vote for the player who will, in the future, truly be called a "great" .

[Ben-2000]

Jimmy Forrest was before my time so gotta vote Sherwood. besides I did think he was good.

[billy]

Well wrote FLB you could'nt have put Jimmy's case better, my vote for him's going in now.

[SouthAussieRover]

Jimmy Forrest was before my time so gotta vote Sherwood. besides I did think he was good.

Cant say I'd honestly heard of Forrest until recently.

And as I've never seen him play or heard about him till recently my vote goes to Sherwood.

[Duff's Minder]

1885 Final

Here is a brilliant description of the 1885 cup run. For anyone who thinks that football back then was like Sunday League park game it should change your mind. 12,500 people turned up in London (at a Cricket ground) for a game played between teams from Blackburn and Glasgow (what kind of a trip home was it for the Queens Park fans?)

Vote Forrest!

[den]

1885 Final

Great link, Duff's minder.

[philipl]

One of the great pleasures of supporting Blackburn Rovers is knowing that our club was pivotal in the creation of modern football.

When Jimmy Forrest scored what proved to be the winning goal for the Rovers in their first FA Cup win against Queen's Park in 1884, two largely amateur sides were competing. By the time of Forrest's fifth FA Cup winning medal in 1891, two professional sides were in opposition and the Football League had been founded and was thriving.

I find it unthinkable that the era when the Rovers dominated for the best part of a decade and shaped the game of soccer would go unrepresented in the supporters' greats.

Forrest was at the centre of all this, was an England regular for six years and captained his country.

[broadsword]

"Sherwood or Forrest" -- haha, how inevitable!

11 Merry Men!

[Alan75]

Forrest not only played for the Rovers he was also after retiring, director at the club until his death.

[LeChuck]

All we ask is that you vote for the player who will, in the future, truly be called a "great" .

In the future? Surely this should be all about now, by that theory we could be voting Gallagher or Stead in the all time great strikers list if we're looking to the future.

Changed my vote from Sherwood to Forrest this time round on the back of FLB's excellent report.

[den]

As an aside - there was two ways we could have gone about selecting this team. One is the way we're doing it now. i.e. looking for all time rovers greats. The other way was to look for the best ever team-i.e. the best ever footballers.

If we had gone for the best ever team, then surely people could only vote for players they had seen. That would have meant having a very narrow time frame to select from.

Doing it this way, people like Forrest, whether he wins or not, would never have been brought into the discussion. Nor would Latheron, Healess, and dozens of other players who have indeed been brought into the fray.

Hence, even though some people still say that they can only vote for players they have seen, this has proved to me, that this was the right way to go and also that the vast majority of members are well prepared to take everything into account before voting.

Well done people.

[jim mk2]

This is a "no-brainer", as our American cousins would say.

Forrest it is.

[den]

One other thing it proves, is that the representations for the players, by many of you people, certainly make a BIG difference.

[SouthAussieRover]

Hence, even though some people still say that they can only vote for players they have seen, this has proved to me, that this was the right way to go and also that the vast majority of members are well prepared to take everything into account before voting.

Well done people.

Agree with you to some extent but history can always be distorted.

Plus football was totally different in those days but that's another debate.

Hence my decision to go with Sherwood as opposed to some historical figure.

BTW I have taken into account everything and Ive chosen to diasagree with it.

Is that okay?