Ferguson Hands in Transfer Request

[blue/white]

I write this in a state of fury.. so excuse me if it comes out disjointed.

GRRRR.... this could be my contribution to the 'why I hate modern day football' thread

if you recall, someone here prophesized (and I paraphrase because I don't wanna go thru 25 pages of thread):

'Brum/Brummies are slagging off Savage-- but if someone came in for Fergy we'd be doing the same thing.'

Very prophetic.... now, if a player wants to leave and hasn't bought into the team goals and has an agent playing these games, let 'em go. We need 100% committment. Let's show the Brum how it should be done, let Bazza pack his Maserati and sooth his family's homesickness...and good riddance to someone that doesn't have the heart to fight for our halves.

But Rangers need to pay a premium for recovering their 'captain courageous' with some premiership experience. Nothing less than original expenditure plus 1.5 million. Isn't time that we come out on top? The lad is under contract for 2 more years-Rangers must pay for that bit of business.

Edited January 12, 2005 by blue/white

[Manchester Blue]

The problem is that Ferguson is not and never has been worth anything like £7 million. £3.5 million is something like his proper value and it's what we should have been paying, if we got £5 million for him then we'd be getting more than what he's worth...the only reason that may look like a bad price is because of the ridiculous sum we paid for him.

There are plenty of midfielders around who are as effective as Ferguson and they cost a fraction of the price...Matt Holland, Michael Brown, Papa Bouba Diop, Amdy Faye, Tim Cahill...the list is pretty much endless. He's a decent Premiership midfielder but nothing more...he's not really attacking enough be the forward running midfielder and he's not physical enough to be the defensive one..it's difficult to know what to do with him.

I've been impressed with Hughes in the transfer market so far and I'd trust him to make better use of £5 million+ than Souness did so if Rangers came in with that kind of fee then I wouldn't be at all bothered if he left.

You've not listed one player there who is even half as talented as Ferguson. The fact of the matter is that a player who can make things happen is always going to be worth more than one is just a worker like Faye or Holland. If you can get one who can do it all then great but when you see how much Gerrard will got to Chelsea for you will see how cheap £6.5m is, not £7.5 however many times you say it. I could claim we bought him for £4m all week but it wouldn't make it true.

If you seriously believe he is only worth £3.5m then i'm amazed. I'd be gutted if he leaves because we will not replace him by any means, there simply isn't anyone to replace him who we could afford, certainly not for £5m. Quite simply we could get in Savage & Faye for £5m but I wouldn't want to watch that every week. Savage & Fergie equals great midfield, Savage & one of those on your list equals no creativity and sadly amuch poorer side.

[John]

Newcastle are interested now as well!! Great.... the ned wants to go home- what a tw*t. Fair enough if he is really homesick but I doubt it.

[blue phil]

If Ferguson is going, it could be a great pretext for Rovers to say they were looking to pair Ferguson with Savage but now that is not possible they are looking elsewhere.

That may be the best way of extricating ourselves out of a bloody awful mess . But it only makes sense if Hughes has made contingency plans - ie , if he has got other players in mind other than Savage.

I have to say that the worst of all worlds is that we pay over the odds for Savage(3- 3.5 m) and only get 4 - 4.5 mill tops for Ferguson . Which , in truth , is about all he's worth . I fear the worst but am living in hope that Hughes has a lot more sense than his predecessor .

What I'm wondering now is how long Rovers have been aware that Fergy is leaving (assuming he is) . I wouldn't like to go into the first game in February against Chelsea with a makeshift midfield comprising neither Savage or Ferguson....

[philipl]

I completely agree MB- well said.

Ferguson has not yet shown what he is capable of on a consistent basis. However, the combination of some shrewd work in the transfer market and Hughes/Bowen guidance and I believe we should have considerable grounds for optimism that a Rovers built around his talents would become a very attractive and effective force in the Premiership.

[blue phil]

Savage & Fergie equals great midfield, Savage & one of those on your list equals no creativity and sadly amuch poorer side.

But we're already a poorish side , Manchester . Any poorer and we'd be halfway to the Nationwide league or whatever it's called . You really are guilty , with all respect , of overestimating Ferguson's talent and influence.

At this moment in time there is nothing to seperate the respective contributions of the two players to their teams - if anything Savage's is greater . The big difference is that Savage is older and won't improve . Neither will Ferguson , come to that , if he limps off back to the joke league in Jockland.

[philipl]

Newcastle are interested now as well!! Great.... the ned wants to go home- what a tw*t. Fair enough if he is really homesick but I doubt it.

1) And your evidence of Newcastle coming into the bidding is what?

2) Ferguson has said nothing yet. Look at what Aberdeen had to say about what his agent gets up to.

3) I'd keep off the abuse of Ferguson as I believce we should be strongly communicating we want him to stay.

[Alan75]

3) I'd keep off the abuse of Ferguson as I believce we should be strongly communicating we want him to stay.

Very true philipl.

we could quite easily follow the Birmingham example in slagging off Savage.

[American]

I like on the official site:

First story - Ferguson bid rejected

Second story - Bidding opens Thursday

[Manchester Blue]

Savage & Fergie equals great midfield, Savage & one of those on your list equals no creativity and sadly amuch poorer side.

But we're already a poorish side , Manchester . Any poorer and we'd be halfway to the Nationwide league or whatever it's called . You really are guilty , with all respect , of overestimating Ferguson's talent and influence.

At this moment in time there is nothing to seperate the respective contributions of the two players to their teams - if anything Savage's is greater . The big difference is that Savage is older and won't improve . Neither will Ferguson , come to that , if he limps off back to the joke league in Jockland.

Read what I said again i'm not comparing Savage & Ferguson and the fact that we are poor, although I think at present we are just pretty average, is largely down to a lack of a really good working midfieler a la Savage, who we don't have.

[92er]

Rangers have bid for Ferguson as his agent has told them his client wants to leave and go back to Rangers.Rovers have turned down the bid and told Rangers Ferguson is not for sale.

According to Radio Lancs, Williams and the player have been in talks -yesterday-but he was unwilling to say what the talks were about.He did admit "there had been rumblings".

The commentator from Glasgow said that Murray appears very keen to bring back Ferguson and said "most of the things Murray wants to happen end up happening".

[Paul]

Question I'm hoping Philip can answer or at least provide a little insight. This clearly assumes a deal is going to be done, which despite my views on Ferguson I hope it isn't.

Rovers paid £6.5m for Ferguson. I believe it is unusual for clubs to simply pay in full for a player at the time of the transfer deal. Can we assume Ferguson is still not fully paid for yet?

Rangers are said to have bid £3.5m. Could it be that Rovers have to date only paid £3.5m to Rangers and the two clubs have now agreed to wipe out the remaining £3m that Rovers owe Rangers?

From a financial view is it possible for the clubs to work in this manner and, if so, what are the financial implacations on the balance sheet? Should this be the position Rovers might simply be freeing up £3.5m cash for a player they know wants to return home?

[joey_big_nose]

while rangers have made an offer is accurate, as yet Ferguson has made no inclination that he wants to leave so can we stop slagging him off. The homesickness thing is just a rumour at the moment.

He is obviously interested in moving, he has not issued an Im staying at Blackburn statement, but that remains his prerogative. What he should not do by any means is force our hands to sell him cheap, a la Robbie Savage. The boots on the other foot...

[Paul]

I must be feeling especially mellow today as I feel the one view we should all take on board is Ferguson's personal situation.

Fans have been hoping we will sign Savage, a player who professes he wants to move for family reasons. If Ferguson wishes to return to Scotland because he is homesick one can imagine the same applies to his family. If we expect Savage to come to Rovers we can't really criticise Ferguson for leaving for much the same reason.

[American]

But most of us are criticising Savage...

[Paul]

But most of us are criticising Savage...

Are we? I hadn't picked up on that, mind you I stopped reading the Savage thread a while back.

[DP]

First of all, I'd like Barry to stay. He shown signs in recent matches of having great ability to drive a team on, and great energy getting from box to box. With Flitty now playing the holding role he certainly looks more comfortable in the Prem.

But... he's a long way off proving he can cut it on a regular basis. The only Prem club I could see coming in for him would be Newcastle, and by all accounts Fergie was non too keen on Souness by the time he left. I also don't think Rovers would sell him to Souness for anything less than they paid in the first place.

And now there's Rangers. Yes, they're interested and they have a bit more cash. Maybe Hughes sees there's a deal to be done. £7m should still be the minimum asking price. O.K. we'll take £6m if Amorrusso goes with him. I do believe though, like someone mentioned, we haven't coughed up all the cash for Barry yet.

Now there's the player himself. We have no quotes from him so let's not slate the guy. Fact is though, if he goes back to Scotland, no matter the reason, he's failed in the Premiership. He'll play in 1 big fixture every year, with the odd "glamour" European tie in front of 10,000 fans in Turin or something. That's it, all over, and no coming back.

Now he doesn't strike me as the giving up type..... so what is it Barry?

[philipl]

Question I'm hoping Philip can answer or at least provide a little insight. This clearly assumes a deal is going to be done, which despite my views on Ferguson I hope it isn't.

Rovers paid £6.5m for Ferguson. I believe it is unusual for clubs to simply pay in full for a player at the time of the transfer deal. Can we assume Ferguson is still not fully paid for yet?

Rangers are said to have bid £3.5m. Could it be that Rovers have to date only paid £3.5m to Rangers and the two clubs have now agreed to wipe out the remaining £3m that Rovers owe Rangers?

From a financial view is it possible for the clubs to work in this manner and, if so, what are the financial implacations on the balance sheet? Should this be the position Rovers might simply be freeing up £3.5m cash for a player they know wants to return home?

Paul, I don't know what the Ferguson deal was for sure but I am reasonably confident of the following:

- the "certain" part amounted to £6.5m

- of that, a little over £2m seems to be outstanding at the moment (remember Ferguson was bought after Chelsea had paid cash down for Duff and Rangers were desperate for liquidity so I would give that number a great deal of credence)

- up to £1m more would become payable contingent on Scottish caps and Rovers' European qualifications I don't think any of that has been triggered.

Nothing official has got out about what has been offered.

My guess is that despite the Boumsong sale, Rangers are not flush (the £52m rights issue still left them £25m or so in debt). If, as I strongly suspect, John Viola has orchestrated this whole thing, then I expect he has unsettled Barry before going to Rangers and persuaded them to make a bid- quite possibly any silly number just to test the Rovers' resolve.

If the £3.5m is true, then it is very cheeky. Rangers have been persuaded to chance their arm and of course it has been in nobody's interest to disclose formally what has been offered. Rovers rejected it without any "waste of fax paper hyperbole" (can't Brum afford a modern fax machine by the way?) and presumably Viola hopes the news of Rangers' bid will cause others to enter the fray.

However, this might have been misrepresented. It could be £3.5m cash plus £2.1m debt forgiveness making £5.6m in reality. That would tally with some of the more serious comments in the Scottish papers over the week-end which were in the £5m to £6m bracket.

I would expect that the key people at Rovers have decided a price at which they would sell but only three or four people within Rovers and the Trustees are in the know about it after the Parkes debacle. It will go to the full board as and when the bidding gets serious.

[Manchester Blue]

But most of us are criticising Savage...

Are we? I hadn't picked up on that, mind you I stopped reading the Savage thread a while back.

You hadn't missed owt Paul. Most people who want Savage to sign don't care about the stuff behind, those who don't are criticising. To suggest most are against Savage is stretching the truth somewhat.

[waggy]

if fergie wants out,let him go.

to bracket him in the same league as shearer and duff is ludicrous

[allan]

This unfolding saga looks uncomfortably similar to the peparture of Sherwood at precisely the same point in the relegation (and at a time when Rovers were looking likely to avoid the drop after a fruitful Xmas period). Then Rovers caved in to Spuds even though Sherwood was still under contract. For the remainder of the season Rovers were utterly rudderless in midfield (to the extent of using handbags Wilcox in a holding position in some matches!) We can only hope the lesson has been learnt but I suspect that once again player/agent power will win at the expense of the clubs that pay them. Yet again Rovers will have lost a small fortune for very little in return. Davies,Grabbi,Cole the list is endless and sickening.

[andy82]

werent Everton interested when we signed him? he could be a good Graveson replacement?

[philipl]

The Scottish edition of The Independent have just speculated that souness will make a bid.

I am pretty confident Ferguson will remain at Rovers whilst Rangers are on their own bidding. Much less so when the question changes from stay or go to a choice between places to go to.

[Oklahoma]

if fergie wants out,let him go.

to bracket him in the same league as shearer and duff is ludicrous

agree

[Maverick]

Before we sell Ferguson there is one questions that has to be answered. If we get about £5m for him, will we be able to buy a just as good player for the same amount of money before the transfer window closes. If not we should not sell even if we get £6m or £7m.

The goal should be to stay in the premiership. what's the point of selling Ferguson for say £5m, buy a replacement with less talent for £3 and then go down at the end of the season. Okey, we will have £2m in the bank, but lose milions in revenue next season and be in a lower division.

We can not sell without knowing if we can get the right replacement.