Ferguson Hands in Transfer Request

[Parasyte]

Dont think we need Parker and Sav in the same midfield... perhaps a move for Gera when WBA get relegated... he's looked impressive for WBA in what is a dire team... plus he fits Hughes ethos of international captains.

[krislu]

Don't be silly Parasyte, I mean Gera over Parker? Get real! Well, the truth of the matter is that Parker is probably too good for us and wouldn't want to join anyway...

[joey_big_nose]

Dont think we need Parker and Sav in the same midfield... perhaps a move for Gera when WBA get relegated... he's looked impressive for WBA in what is a dire team... plus he fits Hughes ethos of international captains.

Are you insane?

Parker is the finest young midfielder in the Prem. He will be as good, or near to it, as Gerrard and Lampard.

If he would come then we should take him! I like Barry Ferguson as a player but he is not as talented as Parker by a long way, unfortunately.

If Parker goes I think evrybody in the league will have a look at him. There was talk of Valencia nosing about too.

Dream world, but it might just happen......

[Martin]

This Ferguson saga is getting very interesting.

I think Newcastle have had a bid accepted (or at least made one) for Amdy Faye at Portsmouth so perhaps they aren't looking at Barry.

Does anybody know whether he will be fit for Monday?

Will he play? What reaction will he get? Would you play him? I honestly don't know what I'd do.

I very much doubt he'll be out by then unless things move very, very fast.

For some reason I think Mr. Ferguson will withdraw his request and stay, I think he happyish at Rovers and once we push up that league and he realises Scottish Football is the place for Egil Ostenstad to finish his career he'll stay. (fingers crosed anyway)

[MCMC1875]

Whatever the outcome, he's poor captaincy material!

[des]

well to date is been a poor show all around from the player both on and off the pitch.

my brother in law as worked away for about 8 years and only see his family at the weekend, yes its hard, but he gores why the work is

it is about time that players started to live ibn the real world. There are very welled paid and as such should shut up, fufill their contract and do there best.

fans get stick for not going to games etc but what about the players its all take, take, take. roll on feb ans we can all get back to the football

[Parasyte]

Don't be silly Parasyte, I mean Gera over Parker? Get real! Well, the truth of the matter is that Parker is probably too good for us and wouldn't want to join anyway...

Case of mind going too fast for fingers. What I meant was:

1. We dont need a Parker type player, IMO

2. We could afford him or his wages, so therefore will have to go for someone like Gera, who is good, and cheaper...

[blue phil]

To 1864, Scotty, Duff's Minder, Blue Phil et al:

Is Boumsong worth £8m?

Is £3m a fair price for Savage?

Are Rovers handling the Ferguson saga better or worse than Birmingham handled Savage or Rangers handled Boumsong?

No 1 - Undoubtedly not . All transfer fees involving Newcastle , Rangers and Souness are dodgy . We should know .....

No 2 - I'd say no ; probably £1.5 m overpriced considering his age , but given that we've done OK from transfers with Brum and Hughes is obviously very , very keen on the bloke , it isn't one to lose sleep over .

No 3 - Difficult question . Given the circumstances (BF wants away , nobody but only Rangers want him) JW and the board are on a sticky wicket . Believe it or not I won't be holding them responsible for not getting more than 4mill for him . But I do hold them very culpable for paying so much for him in the first place (see No 1)

Personally I think Brum did well in getting £3m for Savage - although their constant winging over the affair isn't doing them any favours .

To conclude , Philip , I'd say that all your arguments rest on 2 important premises .

Firstly ; that Rangers are desperate to see BF back home . I don't think they're desperate enough to pay more than £4m - he's simply not worth that much . Sure we can hold out til Jan 30th - it doesn't follow that they'll crack on the 31st...they may just walk away.

Secondly ; that if the worst comes to the worst , BF will be welcomed back into the fold at Ewood . I don't think that's possible now ; it's gone beyond that with too many of the fans who demand at least a show of loyalty from "their" players .

All in all - I don't think we're in a strong position . Time will tell .

[philipl]

A slightly more robust version of what John Williams has said already.

Head in the sand time BP- you can see that clubs are paying big money to get target players who are on contracts of over two years' duration.

You ducked the straight question that if Rangers and Birmingham got huge fees for Boumsong and Savage (and it looks like City will get a ridiculous amount for Distan) why on earth shouldn't Rovers also get a huge fee for Ferguson?

The Walker Trustees own the club and John Williams would not have said what he did about the Board being sacked if they take a £3.5m loss on Ferguson without a nod from Jersey. The Trustees is where the ultimate decision will be taken, certainly not by bitter fans, not by Barry Ferguson, not John Viola and David Murray's only role is to sign a very substantial cheque, or not as the case may be.

If Ferguson stays, it is up to him to win the fans back onto his side. You can boo him, the majority will not if the PR is handled OK. The fans can't even get Matteo dropped so they are hardly going to force Ferguson out of the club now are they?

Mark Hughes is making it very clear he wants Ferguson to stay and no doubt he will tell the fans that again in his usual clear style if Ferguson stays. Are you going to boo Sparky for that?

So, taking your premises, firstly if Rangers don't want him badly enough, he's not going back. Secondly, the fans can be won round. (Go back through this thread, what %age are from Rovers fans implacably opposed to Ferguson even now?)

The Rovers are in a strong position.

In the last 24 hours or so, Rangers, Viola and Ferguson have done nothing in the face of Williams' obvious delaying tactics. The Rovers' position has strengthened with the effluxion of time as of today (of course it could change tomorrow and we don't know what is going on behind the scenes). Next week is the last week of the window by which time Murray has publicly said if Ferguson has not got himself out of Ewood Park, he will be looking elsewhere for a midfielder.

At the moment, everything is being handled in a respectful gentlemanly manner at Ewood and no bridges are being burnt unlike the shrill screaming which is still going on down at St Andrew's so I believe it is perfectly possible for Ferguson to come back into the fold.

My gut feel is that Rangers are too far down the road on this one and that Ferguson will go to them on a transfer formula which allows Rovers to recoup ALL the transfer fees paid AND give us opportunity for upside. It may take another Premiership club to come in or an intemperate outburst by Viola "speaking for Barry" to push it along but that is my 50% outcome with the player staying at Ewood or going to another Premiership club both of which I would put at 25% likelihood.

If there are no public developments by Monday morning and we are still waiting for Rovers' response to the transfer request, it will have shifted to 50% on Ferguson staying.

Edited January 20, 2005 by philipl

[Paul Mellelieu]

I'd jsut like to say that this has been a super thread - well done Phil L, Tris and Scotty in particular for keeping up the level of debate. After lsat night's performance i'm afraid to say that our midfield without Ferguson will not be half as effective.

[blue phil]

After lsat night's performance i'm afraid to say that our midfield without Ferguson will not be half as effective.

.....which is why we've bought savage .

[Scotty]

Philip, there's no way we'll get back what we paid for him, and if he does stay then his relationship with the fans is going to be strained at the very best. While there may not be any booing (and I think there will be), there'll certainly be no singing of his name, and if he puts in one or two of his occasional poor displays the fans will be straight onto his back. And he'll deserve every insult.

I just can't see how you think we're in a strong position. We're either going to lose one of our better players or we're going to be left with a club captain who has little or no respect from the fans.

[grizfoot]

Is anyone expecting him to play against Bolton ???

[broadsword]

I hate to sound thick but why has he left it until now to hand in a transfer resquest? Board will announce decision tomorrow, probably 5.30, unobtainable over the weekend, only 5 days in which to sort it and there's more loose ends than the Savage deal. Time running down will probably be used as a bargaining chip in our favour though as Barry is off, methinks.

Timorous Barry has done it all wrong. Should have nailed his colours to the mast end of December.

Edited January 20, 2005 by Bryan

[Manchester Blue]

Not sure how him having the respect or lack of from the fans would affect his performance in anyway. Judging by this thread it would appear that a large proportion don't rate him anyway or is that just after his transfer request. The board & Hughes are being very canny in the way they have come out as very understanding to Ferguson but are quite clear in their position over his move. As it stands Rangers have offered us £3.5m short of what we paid. Considering JW's comments I would be amazed if he we sold Ferguson for anything less then £6m. If we sell him for £4-4.5m then JW looks like a fool and I don't believe he is one.

As for what will hapen with Ferguson. Most football fans are usually very fickle and very hypocritical. All it will take is a few good performances and Ferguson will get the boo boys off his back. They might not be singing his name from the rooftops but im sure he could cope, he doesn't seem the type that particularly cares to be honest.

I think it will be an interesting week but i'm not all that sure we will come out of this as big a loser as some think. If we keep him then we have a very good midfield. If we don't then I honestly think the club will get most if not all of the money back. In which case it will allow Hughes to go out and invest.

[philipl]

Scotty, of course it is not a good position to be in and I am sure deep down the Rovers hierarchy are livid that this has happened when they should be using the window for securing targets and off loading players they adjudge as dispensable.

By strong, I am saying the club's negotiating position against Rangers and Viola is strong just as Gordon Taylor pointed out very publicly this morning. Time is on the Rovers' side and they are using that and their public statements to perfection.

City have stonewalled Newcastle into offering £7m for Distan this evening. A very ordinary player.

Rangers have already benefitted to the tune of £8m from Souness splashing Fat Freddie's dosh. Is Ferguson as good as Boumsong, better, 75% as good or only half as good? To all intents and purposes, 3.5 years left on a contract are as good as 2.5 years for all Murray's pseudo bullshit seven days ago.

Here's another one for you, which of Boumsong or Ferguson would sell more shirts in the Ibrox shop? The club owns the shirt.

Rangers cannot pretend they are not receiving an unplanned £8m from Boumsong. So fair dos, they should hand it over if they want Ferguson.

[Manchester Blue]

City have stonewalled Newcastle into offering £7m for Distan this evening. A very ordinary player.

One of the City fans at work was laughing about that today. He said if Newcastle offer £7m for Distin, he'll drive him up their personally.

[Scotty]

The problem is that Souness doesn't manage Rangers. If Newcastle want Ferguson then I'm sure we'll get what ever money we want and maybe more - but they don't (so far).

Murray has a reputation as a tough cookie and I'm fairly sure he won't overpay in the manner that Fat Freddie seems willing to.

[krislu]

As it stands Rangers have offered us £3.5m short of what we paid. Considering JW's comments I would be amazed if he we sold Ferguson for anything less then £6m. If we sell him for £4-4.5m then JW looks like a fool and I don't believe he is one.

I'm sure I read somewhere that we still owe Rangers £2.5m from the original transfer and that would also be a part of the deal..

[philipl]

Krislu, John Williams has said the £2.1m (the real number) will be paid when it is due at the end of August and is irrelevant so far as the Rovers are concerned.

Scotty, I think Murray's reputation is massively overdone when it comes to running the business called Glasgow Rangers. Look at the Gers' fans' forums- they clearly think there is a high bullshit factor so far as their Chairman is concerned. The guy has made a fool of himself on the Ferguson deal already- most statements he has made have included a significant inaccuracy which was easilly disproved.

Rangers did a Leeds and plunged £75m into debt, but unlike Leeds, Murray was able to bail them out through his own pocket.

Over recent years, Rangers have been a selling club because of the huge debts- in the last two and a half seasons their transfers out raked in £35m whilst transfers in cost £9m- of that £6m went on Arteta and £1m on Mladenovic. Neither could be said to be good deals.

In the good old days, Murray blew £12m on Torre Andre Flo from Chelsea and an amazing £5.5m on Andre Kanchelskis from Fiorentina when the winger was already way past it (basically dumped out of Everton) and Fiorentina were as good as bust.

My candid view is that Viola has set this thing up too soon for Rangers who cannot afford Ferguson without the certainty of Champions League Group matches which they won't have until late August- if they qualify.

Murray probably planned to bank the Boumsong windfall and is being opportunist in reacting to events rather than determined about Ferguson.

In fact, I would go so far as to hazard a guess that the bad timing is in part due to McLeish desperately trying to save himself from the sack and in part to Viola working the Fergusons very hard to get them to say they want to go to Glasgow strongly enough then jumping the moment he got the words he wanted (Bryan's very good point about the poor timing relative to the window and remember it took John Williams to bring the matter to a head).

Nobody has got Ferguson to say they he has changed his mind about being happy in the Blackburn area or Barry's satisfaction with the Hughes team and the way they are going about things.

Your point about the fans would carry a little more validity if Ferguson had come out slagging off us or the club. However, I think Hughes has established such a high regard with the fans that if he as our Manager continues to throw his weight behind Ferguson, the fans will follow.

Edited January 20, 2005 by philipl

[blue phil]

The problem is that Souness doesn't manage Rangers.

LOL . If Souness were manager at rangers we could ask for £10m - and settle for £8m....

[thenodrog]

Big developments on Tyneside- Butt has broken down again with the hamstring problem. With Souness continuing to be at loggerheads with Kieron Dyer and the Geordie fans openly speculating about a Souness bid for Ferguson.....

Just some futher thoughts..

1. I dont think we can count on a bid for BF from the Mags as Souness is one big bumchum of Murray......... unless of course Murray has instigated all this to construct a 'stalking horse' scenario for GS to come in for him at the last minute and take him to the Mags on the cheap. Anything is possible as they've obviously had much protracted negotiations recently.

2. I know nowt about Rangers (complete lack of interest in Scottish footy) but should we go down the player exchange route? Have they anybody we might want or at least unsettle? They aren't all Sweaties by birth are they.

3. I cannot see Ferguson playing for us again, at least not UNTIL after Jan 30th.

4. If Scotland were any good surely reserve football at Ewood would jeopardise both his place and position as captain. Unfortunately the Scottish national team is a big joke and Ferguson will probably still get a game when he's 45.

[Scotty]

Your point about the fans would carry a little more validity if Ferguson had come out slagging off us or the club. However, I think Hughes has established such a high regard with the fans that if the manager continues to throw his weight behind Ferguson, the fans will follow.

Not sure about that Philip. I can only go on how I feel but I don't want Ferguson to play for us again until he withdraws his request and apologises. Hughes can say what he wants - can't see it changing my opinion of our captain.

[philipl]

Of course Scotty, that would have to be part of the rehabilitation deal. If Rangers are not willing to pay anything like Rovers' asking price and he has stuck himself into this extraordinary "it's only Rangers or Rovers" corner, what other option does he have short of going on strike and losing his income?

Incidentally, Birmingham effectively used a lock-out against Savage; footballers' contracts cannot be that good then.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Whether Rangers have any players worth part-exchanging is an interesting one.

Hughes liking for big defenders could bring Ball into the equation as our new left back - he did play centre-half for Everton occasionally.

I think we should go for an alternative strategy - £6m cash or £4m plus Amo back to Scotland