Goalkeeper.

[92er]

What I am suggesting is that we have had few outstanding keepers.Gennoe was a good 2nd Division keeper. Arnold played well.Jones was very good but didn't prove himself at the highest level.Flowers was the best we could get at the time , was very good but was not outstanding.

Oh, and if I were 12 I would not have seen Jones play.

[philipl]

To the contrary 92er.

John Filan is an example of an excellent keeper who is currently performing brilliantly at Wigan but who scarcely has rated a mention on this thread. Ditto Adam Blacklaw, Alan Kelly, Shay Given and Paul Bradshaw, all of whom also gained international honours whilst with the Rovers.

The fact these players get so little mention is testimony to the exceptional quality of the keepers the Rovers have had over the years. Certainly ahead of any other club playing in the leagues we have been playing in.

As for casting my vote, I cannot decide.

Terry Gennoe for being a really nice guy, Jim Arnold for being a crowd pleaser the 18 months he was with us, Roger Jones for sticking with the club when clearly capable of being an outstanding Div 1 keeper, Tim Flowers for his bottle, Brad for the World Cup and that remarkable 02/3 season.

Sorry guys, sitting on the fence on this one- they are all magnificent!

[den]

Sorry guys, sitting on the fence on this one- they are all magnificent!

You can't! You're going to get a vote shortly. If I know you Philipl, you wont be able to abstain.

[Alan75]

philipl Adam Blacklaw, Alan Kelly, Shay Given and Paul Bradshaw, all of whom also gained international honours whilst with the Rovers.

Blacklaw and Bradshaw were never full internationals to my knowledge.

[FourLaneBlue]

Al - Blacklaw played for Scotland when with Burnley I think although I've added something to my Rovers knowledge as I'd never even heard of Paul Bradshaw.

Think we may need to approach this slightly differently otherwise the older players have no chance. Maybe if someone made a case for each player and the votes were made on that? It's difficult but otherwise people will just go for those players they have seen and we'll end up in the kind of daft situation where Brett Emerton gets votes as the greatest ever Rovers right winger while actual greats of the likes of Douglas and Clayton struggle.

Is it to be the greatest player in that position or just the best player each person saw? What does everyone else reckon?

Edited August 17, 2004 by FourLaneBlue

[bob fleming]

.... end up in the kind of daft situation where Brett Emerton gets votes as the greatest ever Rovers right winger.....

Good grief man!!! That's taking it to the 'n'th degree but I totally agree with you.

I've written a few lines on Gennoe - maybe not the best few lines anyones ever written about him but at least I've had a go. We need people who have seen the "older" players to put a good case forward for their inclusion in the "all time BRFCS XI" - then when "nominations" are in everyone can have a vote.

I might be completely wrong but I'm sure there are people on here who can write a glowing testamonial on Ronnie Clayton that will convince even the youngest of fans that he should make the team.

Correct me if I'm wrong den?

And another thing *jabs finger at monitor* this "he never kept goal at the highest level" thing. Hmmmm. I would have thought that this one position where that really doesn't matter. A shot on goal is a shot on goal is a shot on goal - and needs to be saved. Or do we think that players in the "lower divisions" don't hit the ball as hard? Or are the goals smaller or something? Just a thought.

[speeeeeeedie]

I'll go with Friedel. Premier League team of the year, a class act. Flowery Tim was a great shot stopper but he lacked that little extra that Brad has. Don't get me wrong, he is a good keeper but Friedel is a better option. I've only seen from Gennoe on so the old timers I have no clue about.

I also really rate Shay Given, I think he is on a par with Friedel.

[FourLaneBlue]

Well... I can help out a bit with players from before the war - write a little piece about what they did and have people judge them on that but obviously it's all secondary evidence so those on here would have to be willing to approach it with an open mind. Or...it can just be the same old thing with a team made up of players from just the last ten years, and we do seem to have those kind of threads a couple of times of a month.

"hmmm....Davidson or Bjornebye for left back? Oh how can I ever seperate those two?!?".

There's also players like Bob Crompton who even Jim can't have seen play (assuming Jim is the age he maintains and not just some thirtysomething pretending to be a pensioner on an internet message board ).

I didn't start going to Rovers regularly until the late eighties so do I not consider the likes of Gennoe? It's a bit difficult this lark of trying to decide the actual greatest team ever

Edited August 17, 2004 by FourLaneBlue

[den]

We need people who have seen the "older" players to put a good case forward for their inclusion in the "all time BRFCS XI" - then when "nominations" are in everyone can have a vote.

I might be completely wrong but I'm sure there are people on here who can write a glowing testamonial on Ronnie Clayton that will convince even the youngest of fans that he should make the team.

Correct me if I'm wrong den?

You are spot on bob. The whole idea of having the discussion before the vote, is for some of the older members to give some of the younger members a bit of an insight into how good [or elsewise] some of the players from before our time, really were.

It's not an easy one, but I'm sure there are quite a few of the older brigade who do remember fred Else and harry Leyland for example.

How about some of the exiles, some of them can go back a long way?

I'm waiting a reasonable amount of time in order to see whether someone can put a case for some of the afore mentioned players. We all know about Brad and Flowers, that's not a problem.

Having said that, if no one can put a case forward, that's fair enough, we'll just vote on the nominations as they stand.

Not having seen some of the named players, shouldn't prevent them getting nominated. I mean, I've never seen Bob Crompton, but there will be many reasons for his inclusion at Right Back!

[Alan75]

Sorry FLB, I didnt make myself clear regarding Blacklaw and Bradshaw.

Blacklaw didnt gain any international honours whilst at Ewood, the only caps he got, 3, I believe, were when he played for Bumley.

Paul Bradshaw the gentle giant, may have got an U21 cap whilst at Rovers, before he moved to Wolves.

Bradshaw just a raw kid, was thrown in at the deep end in 1976 when Roger Jones moved to Newcastle. and his performances between the sticks ensured that he was quickly bought by Wolves two season later, for quite a substancial fee in them days for a keeper.

John Butcher took over in goal from Bradshaw.

ps Wolves were in the 1st (now prem league) and rovers were in the 2nd.

[den]

Is it to be the greatest player in that position or just the best player each person saw? What does everyone else reckon?

Important one that, FLB.

We need everyone to make a judgement as to who was/is the greatest ever player in that position.

Not exclusively the best player they have personally seen.

I would go for Harry Leyland, who I never saw, if someone who did see him, put a persuasive argument forward.

We'll only get one go at choosing this team, so let's have a good discussion before we vote and let's all have an open mind.

Remember, we are looking for the best rovers team ever.

[Cocker]

Is it to be the greatest player in that position or just the best player each person saw? What does everyone else reckon?

Important one that, FLB.

We need everyone to make a judgement as to who was/is the greatest ever player in that position.

Not exclusively the best player they have personally seen.

I would go for Harry Leyland, who I never saw, if someone who did see him, put a persuasive argument forward.

We'll only get one go at choosing this team, so let's have a good discussion before we vote and let's all have an open mind.

Remember, we are looking for the best rovers team ever.

Yes but Den, how can we possibly vote for someone we have never seen play?

Also, for all you ladies reading this, I am the best looking bloke in the world even though you have never seen me. Den should be able to back this up even though he hasent seen me either

[Roaming Rover]

Tough one between Gennoe, Flowers and Feidel. John Filan in his first season was also fantastic.

I'd have to go for Flower though. The performance against Newcastle in the 1-0 win was fantastic, but it was the bottle speech afterwards which swings it for me

When it mattered he never let anyone down.

And he helped us win the Premiership

[den]

Yes but Den, how can we possibly vote for someone we have never seen play?

Also, for all you ladies reading this, I am the best looking bloke in the world even though you have never seen me.  Den should be able to back this up even though he hasent seen me either 

Cocker, I'm sure I just tried to explain all that.

bob fleming:

I've written a few lines on Gennoe - maybe not the best few lines anyones ever written about him but at least I've had a go. We need people who have seen the "older" players to put a good case forward for their inclusion in the "all time BRFCS XI" - then when "nominations" are in everyone can have a vote.

I might be completely wrong but I'm sure there are people on here who can write a glowing testamonial on Ronnie Clayton that will convince even the youngest of fans that he should make the team.

den:

The whole idea of having the discussion before the vote, is for some of the older members to give some of the younger members a bit of an insight into how good [or elsewise] some of the players from before our time, really were.

I mean, I've never seen Bob Crompton, but there will be many reasons for his inclusion at Right Back!

[FourLaneBlue]

Yes but Den, how can we possibly vote for someone we have never seen play?

That's a bit like saying how can we say Jack the Ripper was a bad man if we haven't seen him kill? It's a quite simple decision - do you have to have personally experienced something to have an opinion on it? Many people say Saddam Hussein wasn't the world's nicest ruler bt how do any of us know if we never went to Iraq? In other words people need to be capable of using their imagination rather than just thinking the world revolves around their own two eyes.

We can either look at the cases made for each player and use those for the decision or we can just vote on those we have seen which means I probably have to choose between Brad and Tim for Best Goalkeeper. Which is hardly 'greatest' anything never mind of all time. It's difficult obviously but if we are going to have people only considering players from (for example) after they started watching Rovers in 2001 then it's going to be a bit poor when Gresko gets votes for greatest left back ever.

Edited August 18, 2004 by FourLaneBlue

[Alan75]

This may help.

Roger Jones

1970 - 1976

Appearances 277

Honours at Ewood. Third Div Championship 1975.

height 5-11

Although not the tallest of keepers he had natural athleticism performing world class saves.

He dominated his area and his judgement of crosses was impeccable. Ever present during the third div championship season.

Moved from Ewood to 1st div Newcastle.

Mike Jackman in his book writes that if Jones hadnt spent most of his career at Ewood may have progressed to full international level.

Terry Gennoe

1981-1992 retired through injuery

holds record for goal keeping appearances at Rovers 334,

Voted PFA second div keeper 1984-85 season.

missed ful members cup due to injury.

Athletic and agile dominated his area and very brave. Good at crosses.

Tim Flower

1993-1999

11 england caps

championship winning keeper

who can forget ve day

[Cheshireblue]

Shouldn't we turn this into a poll and then we can all confirm that Flowers is our greatest ever keeper?

[GiddyGoat]

Of the 'Keepers that I've seen at Ewood, Gennoe, Collier, Grew, Mimms, Dickins, Flowers, Fettis, Kelly, Filan, Friedel and Enckleman (plus the others I've forgotten) I've got to go with Friedel. I loved Gennoe and Flowers is one of the biggest personalities we've ever had at Ewood but Brad is just awesome. Voted by his peers as the best keeper in one of the best leagues in the world says it all.

[Nate]

Where is John Filan? The courage he showed going for that ball with Des Walker in the 7-2 rout of Sheffield Wednesday, resulting in a shatered arm!

I have to say Flowers as he is pretty much the only great keeper I seen play for Rovers. Plus he has bottle

[den]

Time to vote. This poll will run until two weeks today. That should take any accusations of bias out of it.

[Tango]

I'm going to give my vote to Friedel. In his time at Rovers he's been awesome, pulling off some of the best saves the Premiership has ever seen. Those saves in the Worthington Cup Final will live long in the memory.

[Nate]

Not much of a choice for me, I was born in 1978

So many choices for young Jim though

[den]

Must admit, I can't make my mind up.

[Cocker]

Yes but Den, how can we possibly vote for someone we have never seen play?

Also, for all you ladies reading this, I am the best looking bloke in the world even though you have never seen me.  Den should be able to back this up even though he hasent seen me either 

Cocker, I'm sure I just tried to explain all that.

bob fleming:

I've written a few lines on Gennoe - maybe not the best few lines anyones ever written about him but at least I've had a go. We need people who have seen the "older" players to put a good case forward for their inclusion in the "all time BRFCS XI" - then when "nominations" are in everyone can have a vote.

I might be completely wrong but I'm sure there are people on here who can write a glowing testamonial on Ronnie Clayton that will convince even the youngest of fans that he should make the team.

den:

The whole idea of having the discussion before the vote, is for some of the older members to give some of the younger members a bit of an insight into how good [or elsewise] some of the players from before our time, really were.

I mean, I've never seen Bob Crompton, but there will be many reasons for his inclusion at Right Back!

I was always told to read more now I know why

Cheers Den

[bazza]

In my opinion there are only five of these to choose from.

Harry Leyland was a character who was fair to poor one game and unbelievably brilliant the next.

Terry Gennoe; a great servant but not worthy for best ever.

That leaves Brad, Fred, Roger, Tim and Jim.

I never saw Jim Arnold play.I was living abroad at the time. I believe he was good but that's it; can't comment.

Brad and Tim are (were) good shot stoppers.

The best two keepers I've ever seen for Rovers are Fred Else and Roger Jones. However Roger did it at level 3 whereas Fred did it at level 1

Therefore my vote goes to the mighty FRED ELSE who was brilliant even though he wasn't very tall. He was also a folk hero at PNE where he played before joining Rovers.