First central midfielder

[Dr Rich]

Contrary to what a lot of people seem to be implying, I don't believe we've been all that blessed when it comes to central midfielders at Ewood. In every other position there was at least two players who deserved the slot in my mind. Here, Clayton is an obligatory choice, great player, great bloke, should be the first name on the greatest-teamsheet, but after that I'm left choosing between what I see as sub-standard players.

Maybe Latheron and Forrest were great, I've no idea, I'll probably end up voting for one of them on the strength of the respective cases put forward for them. Other than that I'm half-tempted to vote for Stuart Metcalfe just so I can claim to have played alongside one of Rovers greatest ever team.

The Championship winning midfielders weren't up to much in my book, yes they did what they were meant to do - be solid, give the ball to the wingers and forwards, well, but to label any of them as the greatest ever Rovers midfielder? I'd rather have David Dunn. In fact I think I'll nominate Dunny, he'd probably get more votes than the regular 0's from some of the old players in the polls so far. I don't intend voting for him for one minute, he's not within a country mile of deserving the word greatest, but in his defence he was arguably our best player, along with a pre-accident Jansen, in the promotion side, better than Damien Duff, who's going to walk into this team. Then things started to go wrong, Fabrizio Ravenelli butchered our talismanic trickster with a horrendous challenge in Dunn's first Premiership game, at Pride Park. Since then the previously uninjurable Dunny has been subject to numerous injuries which have severely hampered his career. Local lad, Blackburn fan, England international, capable of sublime skill and deadly shooting in equal measure. The defining moment in Dunn's Rovers career for me was when he burst through the towering Porstmouth defence during our promotion season and scored, straight through he went, flattening giant hulking beasts like Linvoy Primus, because he wanted to score so damned much. I'm half starting to convince myself you know....

So Clayton for definite, he should get a greater share of the vote than anyone so far in these polls, he was on a different planet to anyone else we've had in 'midfield'. After that I'll flip a, four-headed, coin between Latheron, Forrest, Metcalfe and Dunn.

[Dr Rich]

McGrath was always considered one of the most under rated wing halves in England by the rovers fans. Although it was only the Republic of Ireland, he was a regular for that side for many seasons. [i think].

22 caps for Ireland between 1958 and 1967.

[den]

Dr, you'll do well to vote for Dunny, he's not on the list! Strange that you're the first one to mention him.

[Al]

You hit the nail on the head there Dr Rich. The reason that players like Atkins (please!!) and Sherwood are being nominated is that apart from Ronnie Clayton there has not been another midfield player in living memory that deserves to be called great. Perhaps we were hasty putting Bryan Douglas on the wing!

My votes will go to Clayton and Latheron.

[Duff's Minder]

You hit the nail on the head there Dr Rich. The reason that players like Atkins (please!!) and Sherwood are being nominated is that apart from Ronnie Clayton there has not been another midfield player in living memory that deserves to be called great.

exactly why Atkins get's my vote (along with Clayton). The Greatest 11 is about more than how good they were as players (otherwise Newell goes in ahead of Garner) it's about what they represented to the club - Atkins was crucial during the most celebrated 4 or 5 seasons in our recent history and performed when it mattered. To be honest, he deserves it just for making that lung-busting run in the play-off final when every other player on the pitch was struggling to get beyond a jog.

[den]

It's a difficult one but we shouldn't give up. Clayton "should" make it, but you never know. The second midfielder - I can't make my mind up either. The running seems to be between Atkins, Sherwood and Latheron. My take so far:

Atkins. Atkins strengths were his physique and his stamina. As a C.M. he was a guy who stood his ground. Defensively he was fairly solid and added a bit of dourness to the side [something we could do with now]. He was also an up and downer and chipped in with a fair amount of goals, for someone not that talented, he did well. The thing with Atko was - he was the right man at the right time. The way rovers played with Shearer, Wilcox and Ripley, Atkins offered the perfect foil, the balance to that team. As for great? Sorry Colin, but not in that class.

Sherwood. I still think he was underestimated. He certainly had a lack of pace, that stopped him being a really top class midfielder. What he did have though was vision. He was a leader. Dalglish didn't make him captain for nothing.

BUT and it's a big BUT, here's an article written by some Norwich fan that brings back some of the Sherwood baggage:

Tim Sherwood

That carry on between Sherwood and Hodson leaves a bitter taste in my mouth and tars his reputation for me.

Latheron. I really can't say that I would have remembered him if it wasn't for Alan75 mentioning his name. I'm open to persuasion on this one and recall SG 194's testimonial:

Edwin Gladstone Latheron was born in Grangetown,North East England and joined Blackburn Rovers in 1906 almost by accident.He was discovered when visiting Blackburn to play for Grangetown against Blackburn Crosshill in an FA amatuer cup tie.Rovers had originally gone to watch another player but it was Latheron who caught their eye and Rovers paid £25 to bring him to Ewood!

A skilful inside forward who,despite his lack of height, was good in the air he possessed fantastic ball control coupled with a fine shot on him.... he quickly established himself as a fans favourite with the Blackburn public.A prolific goalscorer himself, he was claimed never to be a selfish player and always prepared to do the 'fetching and carrying' for other team mates.

Without question a driving force(alongside Crompton) behind the all conquering pre war Rovers Championship sides of 1912 and 1914 he was capped twice by England and represented the football League.

At the height of his powers Eddie played his last game for Rovers on March 17th 1917.Five days later he went to fight for Queen and Country in the trenches of France and tragically just seven months later he was killed by a German shell.He left a widow and a young child.....he was just 28.

Played league football for Rovers between 1906-1915, made a total of 282 appearances in all competitions and scored an impressive 104 goals.

Apologies for re-posting that thread but maybe I'll go that way. I'm not sure.

In the next few days we will have to cut the nominations down. So probably the players not mentioned up to now will go. So if there's someone who wants to come in with any player in danger of losing out, now's the time.

[Big A]

Ok I'm going to make the case for Garry Flitcroft.

Flitcroft is currently the longest serving player in the squad having been signed on 26/03/1996 from Manchester City for £3.5M. This means he's been around for eight years, which is pretty extraordinary by today's standards. During this time he's made nearly 250 appearences.

Flitcroft isn't the most skilful of midfielders, but then again a lot of the leading runners weren't either. What Flitcroft has provided is agression and fighting spirit (sometimes a little too much of the latter). For much of these years Flitcroft has been our captain and he was influential in promotion from division 1 and our first few years back in the Premiership, even getting a few vital goals such as the winner against ManU in 2002.

Greatest midfielder ever? Probably not, but worthy of inclusion in the shortlist I feel.

As to my feelings about the overall poll. Well Clayton's got my vote for the first position. For the second I'm undecided between Atkins and Latherton. Sherwood leaves a bad taste in the mouth, a little like Le Saux and for me a great player has to do more than just performing on the pitch. Batty never really played enough games in the title-winning season, unlike Atkins.

[CAPT KAYOS]

[

And with that comment you just lost the last shred of credibility that you had Capt.

Does your seat actually face the pitch? Or are you an aged trilby and car coat wearing stupid old git from the Riverside who all hated him cos he had long hair and misplaced one pass in 20, and couldn't see how integral he was in that team?

btw how many peope have captained a Prem winning side? He's in quality company. Please dont post again on this thread.

If I had any in the first place but probably more than you

Yes my seat faces the pitch but I would rather stand - could ask the same of yours to see if its actually in Ewood Park.

Blackburn Ender til I die ( except in my younger days when I started going when I used to stand of the terrace of the Riverside). Shaved head lacoste / addidas samba wearing vocal fan who prefers to stand rather than sit

Just take a read at the comments of those regarding 'bad taste in the mouth' feeling about him and you get my gist.

Lets just say Hildersley deserves his mention on here as much as anybody else and so does my opinion. Barnethead cared more for himself than anything else and the comments about rather going off to the boxing match after the tubbing at Wimbledon only gave force to what I already knew about him.

Have your wet dreams about him, but please don't post again on this MB

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

He is storming forward like a horny stallion chasing a "my little pony" on heat.

Just seen this - an excellent description and post, Colin.

You've put forward the case for Atko very well.

Decided a while back though to vote for Clayton....

[speeeeeeedie]

It's looking like Clayton with Atko and Sherwood in a tussle for second. I'm either going with Latheron or Batty for my second. Latheron for the heart and Batty because he was class. I find the sideways pass comments about him a bit naive. Not all players become great from launching 50 yard balls all day. He was great at keeping possession, something this current team cannot do. 42 England caps, 10 as a sub.

Has anyone else mentioned Lee Richardson? The most one footed player I've ever seen.

[Brownie]

It's looking like Clayton with Atko and Sherwood in a tussle for second. I'm either going with Latheron or Batty for my second. Latheron for the heart and Batty because he was class. I find the sideways pass comments about him a bit naive. Not all players become great from launching 50 yard balls all day. He was great at keeping possession, something this current team cannot do. 42 England caps, 10 as a sub.

Has anyone else mentioned Lee Richardson? The most one footed player I've ever seen.

At one stage Rico the Gypsey King looked like he was going to be a world beater, fell away when the going got tough though.

Batty was a magnificent player, no harder player in the Premiership at the time, loved his battles with United.

I also thought Batty played the best football of his career at Rovers.

[Al]

exactly why Atkins get's my vote (along with Clayton). The Greatest 11 is about more than how good they were as players (otherwise Newell goes in ahead of Garner) it's about what they represented to the club - Atkins was crucial during the most celebrated 4 or 5 seasons in our recent history and performed when it mattered.

Sorry Duff's Minder but this poll is about the greatest ever players so it IS about how good they are/were. As for your example yes Mike Newell should without doubt go in before Garner but the latter has such a cult following that I have given in already on that one. (Roy Vernon would be my choice as a number 10).

I do not want to insult an honest trier but I find it hard to believe that we are even discussing such a limited player as Mark Atkins as one of our BEST EVER players.

Mark was never 'crucial' as you put it to the Rovers team but was always an also ran who would not let you down. In fact when it came to the run in for the championship it should be noted that Dalgliesh identified him as a weakness and bought Batty specifically to replace him.

We have already made one alarming error in choosing Le Seaux at left back (opinion). Let's not compound it by choosing the wrong midfielder as well.

[Alex Rover]

Atkins is a cult hero. Fine for the Super Atko fan club that used to exist in the Blackburn End Enclosure (pre-Jack) but not for the best in the clubs history.

Although I agree with a few people, that other than Clayton, the competition seems somewhat threadbare compared with the debates for the back four. Strange really. I bet for most other clubs these positions would have been the most highly contested.

[Andy Kennedys Hairdo]

As has already been mentioned, Colin's put forward a tremendous case for the inclusion of Mark Atkins into this Rovers Pantheon, however, I just want to counter that :

Atkins had been at the club three years prior to the arrival of Dalglish and in the two years previous he had lost his place at right-back on a number of occasions, notably, to Mick Duxbury, Bob Dewhurst, Neil Oliver and I'm pretty sure that even Nicky Reid played there at some stage. Nicky Reid !!!!!

It should also be noted that it was Tony Parkes who first moved Atkins to a midfield position and not King Kenny. Atkins played there in each of his first 5 games in care-taker charge post MacKay, whilst Parkes favored Duxbury/Brown at full back. Dalglish did stick with him in that role for a while, but judging by the fact that he signed Cowans and Sherwood later on that season he was not convinced.

In the next couple of season's Atkin's role was restricted to that of squad player. He did start off the inaugural Premiership season with the number 8 shirt but soon lost out to Cowans again, and had the Patrick Andersson move worked out his appearances would have been even more fleeting. Batty arrival the following year squeezed Atkins out even further, and had it not been for his injury the season after, who knows what would have become of Premiership winner Mark Atkins.

I'm not trying to denounce or belittle any of Atkins achievements at the club. In-fact I think it's great testament to the man that a player of Batty's caliber was not missed during the Championship winning season because of Marks performances. All I'm trying to do is place a bit of reality alongside this romantic notion of 'Super Atko' that seems to be floating around this thread.

Vote Simon Barker !

[thenodrog]

had the Patrick Andersson move worked out his appearances would have been even more fleeting.

Patrick Anderson played centre half for us.

[Andy Kennedys Hairdo]

had the Patrick Andersson move worked out his appearances would have been even more fleeting.

Patrick Anderson played centre half for us.

Not with Hendry and Moran playing in the same side he didn't. Maybe this is why the move didn't work out ? He obviously went on to be a great success as a centre back elsewhere, but of the 9 or so games he started for Rovers, only two of those were the back. All the others were as a midfielder.

Edited October 28, 2004 by Andy Kennedys Hairdo

[Brownie]

had the Patrick Andersson move worked out his appearances would have been even more fleeting.

Patrick Anderson played centre half for us.

Not with Hendry and Moran playing in the same side he didn't. Maybe this is why the move didn't work out ? He obviously went on to be a great success as a centre back elsewhere, but of the 9 or so games he started for Rovers, only two of those were the back. All the others were as a midfielder.

AKH has called this one right.

He played every game in midfield for us and was particularly useless.

Went on to be an excellent centre back for Bayern, I think.

[thenodrog]

He played every game in midfield for us and was particularly useless.

Went on to be an excellent centre back for Bayern, I think.

Indeed but he was even worse than useless at ch v Sheff Wed.

[bellamy11]

had the Patrick Andersson move worked out his appearances would have been even more fleeting.

Patrick Anderson played centre half for us.

Not with Hendry and Moran playing in the same side he didn't. Maybe this is why the move didn't work out ? He obviously went on to be a great success as a centre back elsewhere, but of the 9 or so games he started for Rovers, only two of those were the back. All the others were as a midfielder.

AKH has called this one right.

He played every game in midfield for us and was particularly useless.

Went on to be an excellent centre back for Bayern, I think.

He played at Barca for several seasons and I think he became their captain at one point. He can be on the list of ones that got away.

[Andy Kennedys Hairdo]

He played every game in midfield for us and was particularly useless.

Went on to be an excellent centre back for Bayern, I think.

Indeed but he was even worse than useless at ch v Sheff Wed.

Yep, his full debut. I think I'm right in saying that his first and last starts for the club were the only ones in his preferred position. However, in-between..........well, it's already been said.

[colin]

Den,

You've probably organised this already for centre-backs, but I've forgotten

Are we having one vote for central midfielders with the top two getting the accolade or are we having two votes with two seperate winners? Presumably with the winner of the first vote being logically excluded from the second poll.

Yours psephologically

Colin

[den]

Den,

You've probably organised this already for centre-backs, but I've forgotten

Are we having one vote for central midfielders with the top two getting the accolade or are we having two votes with two seperate winners? Presumably with the winner of the first vote being logically excluded from the second poll.

Yours psephologically

Colin

Col baby,

two votes with two seperate winners. It's the only fair way. I think we'll have the first vote next week some time, there's the weekend entertainment to get through first.

I wonder how many folk are thinking that our lack of midfield talent, has been the catalyst of our dreadful form through the seventies and eighties?

[colin]

Col baby,

Careful petal.

But thanks for the swift reply

[Tris]

I've had to play catch up on this thread, and having just read the last 6 pages all in one go, I have to say it's the best bit of this series so far and rightly so. I hope Den spins it out to the max.

Centre midfield is the crux of the matter in every sense. The rest of the team depends on the players in the middle of the park. For this vote we're being asked to weigh up creative genius v defensive solidity, reliable workhorse v clever lynchpin.

At one stage reading through this thread, I was tempted to post immediately that we should all be granted a get out clause by suggesting we dilute the dilemma by being promised further votes on 2nd teams or filtering the candidates in some way.

BUT Den has been clear from the start - look at the title. It's about the GREATEST EVER TEAM. The joy of this part of the vote is that you really have to decide on your own two feet. How do you perceive "greatest"? Can you sacrifice reputation for contribution? Or graft for guile?

It's amazing that Dunn has only been mentioned once and Berkovic not at all. Don't get me wrong - I'd never vote for Berkovic in this exercise. Even though, in years of going to games, including loads of competitive internationals, I think Berkovic has certain attacking qualities which I've never seen bettered in any other midfield player anywhere.

So I urge everyone to really weigh up what we are voting for - the greatest Rovers midfielders for the greatest Rovers team. We have to pick the best two to perform in the best team. Tactical voting in round two must not be allowed to leave us unbalanced when we admire the final result.

I'm reluctant to suggest this, but I feel there's a case for fragmenting this vote into two - a vote for a holding midfielder and another vote for an attacking midfield partner. We've taken the brave decision to go 4-4-2, and having done that we should be realistic about who ends up in that formation in order to protect the integrity of the final lineup.

Maybe Den can get another "sub-vote" out of this, or maybe we should just go hell-for-leather - why not Dunn and Berkovic ????? Shearer and Garner would LOVE that !!

[Dr Rich]

Den, one would presume that since the poll has yet to be created this would be the opportune time to nominate players for inclusion.

I feel David Dunn deserves to be at least considered eligible for nomination to the shortlist, how many Rovers players have captained England U-21's regularly? Or how many have won a cup for that matter? He's been mentioned twice now too, which is more than can be said for a lot of those on the initial list. As I said before, you only have to look at past polls to see that more recent players will get votes whilst those from the past, if they were the 5th or 6th best Rovers midfielder of all time, will be inhibited by people who would vote for them voting instead for the best two(as it should be). Not that I'm saying Dunn was inferior to these others.

I would have said Berkovic's short time at the club would, as for Ardiles, preclude his selection, but as a player he does possess some amazing attributes, wasn't it Souness who said he was the best passer of the final ball that he had ever seen? Granted he is also majorly deficient in some areas. When we signed Tugay people were saying we'd gotten the better player of the two, it really doesn't look that way anymore, Berkovic is still excelling in an exciting Portsmouth side whilst Tugay looks like he's had it. Granted Celtic were being greedy at the time and Rangers were starting their fire-sale, but it bears thinking about.