[Archived] 2005/6 Season Ticket Sales

[stuwilky]

Btw, when do s/t details usually come out, i cant remember. Is it in June or the start of July?

317057[/snapback]

Usually pretty late although I am reliably informed the club are trying to get the details out within a few weeks. Best bet to make sure you get them is to ring the TO and ask to be sent the pack when they are available.

[Jan]

Celtic Season tickets CLOSING date for renewals is 20 May!!!!

Ours won't even have opened by then! Admittedly this year there's no incentive to buy a season ticket early. Ordinary players performing in an ordinary way. However I still think everything always happens too late for us. If they sent out packs earlier they could chase non-renewals earlier, they'd be able to move people to better seats earlier and when we DO buy decent players won't see glory-hunters get in on those better seats (note positive WHEN we buy decent players).

Also they'd get a better view of their budget earlier!

Edited May 18, 2005 by Jan

[blue phil]

I feel the same and wll also get my usual 3 ST's for next season, but only because the kids want to go and a sense of loyalty.

Still, a couple of good signings this summer could make all the diference.

How many of us are in this boat - although I'm not sure that a couple of decent players would entice anyone to buy a season ticket . Last night a mate was assuring me that Bellamy was on his way here . Although he's a good player , this would more likely dissuade me from renewing my ticket - I simply don't want to help pay for him and his like ....

The sooner the bubble bursts the better .

[Tris]

I think the only thing that will encourage people to buy season tickets, would be new signings.

This argument is made again and again and needs to be quantified.

Look at what a "quality signing" - the sort which brings in new ST holders or persuades existing ST holders to renew - actually costs. His name is Crowd Pleaser.

Lets's say £3 million as a basic fee, and a modest 20K a week on a 3 year contract.

Again, rounding down (and ignoring bonus payments and all other costs), you're already at 2 million pounds per year.

If each and every Season Ticket at Ewood Park brought in £400 (this is way too high given the number of kids and discount STs), the signing of Crowd Pleaser would tie up the revenue from 5 THOUSAND ST holders EVERY SEASON.

There is no way - even if Rovers re-signed Duff, Shearer and Dunn and also brought in (say) McCarthy and Gabbidon - that 5000 Blackburn folk are going to alter their intentions over buying a season ticket.

And that little lot would come for a combined fee of around 25 million (assumes Shearer would be a free) and annual wages of at least 12 million. Or 50 thousand new season ticket holders (full price) at Ewood.

So the idea that the club should gamble on some "crowd pleasing" signings in an effort to boost Season Ticket sales is totally and utterly out of the question.

It's going to be down to the same hard core fans again, and they will have to be content with more astute business from the club in the transfer market - which means frees, loans, cheap gambles and cast offs from elsewhere.

[Tris]

Very harsh point to make, Paul.

316745[/snapback]

The truth hurts and is often harsh, What you say is true of the current squad SINCE Hughes took over. Prior to that these players gave us nothing. The Fulham game was a prime example that the team is still capable of the "couldn't care less" attitude. Betaing Fulham was vital for the feel-good factor. What did we get? Another abject defeat from a team that did not compete plus a player sent off after running 30 yards to deliberatley foul an opponent. We are being asked to support this rabble, it is unprofessional - they are asked to work for two hours a week for £1m plus a year, I expect total and utter dedication for the 90 minutes I'm watching, nothing less is acceptable. After the Fulham game I said I wouldn't renew my STs. I still do not WANT to renew, I WILL renew but I have no interest, excitment or desire to do so at the moment. I have two reasons for renewing - the kids want to go and without an ST I doubt I'd bother at all.

I know literally tens of ex ST holders who feel exactly the same. I have a Man Utd friend, an ST holder at OT, who is so disgusted by Rio Ferdinand's wage demand he is not going back next year. The league is riddled with over-paid, under-achieving, average footballers who do not deserve the money they are paid. At Blackburn we have a lot of fans who are no longer prepared to put up with it.

The answer is simple: force the players to perform, week in, week out. Make them realise they are responsible for the club's position. Hit them in the pocket when they don't perform. It's a team game, I'm not criticisng any individual, they must take collective resposibility.

I don't mind losing, I don't mind the fact we are unlikley to win anything, I'll put up with inconvenient KO times, I'll ignore the over-blown hype that is the PL, I'll ignore all the rubbish that is associated with our game provide the players attitude is right. Currently it stinks.

Until the players perform at Ewood Park the club can do nothing to increase support.

316894[/snapback]

I can't disagree with the sentiment of frustration which fuels your point of view Paul, but the simple fact is - that's football (and has been for a while).

Rovers as a club can't change the culture or the attitudes. You could can the entire Rovers first team squad and replace them with the hungry Carlisle squad which has just got them back in the league - but the consequences are obvious.

You could also replace the entire squad with the abject bunch who have just taken Forest into the third division. The consequences are even more obvious - and Forest have brought in over a thousand more fans per home game than we have this season - even though the poor buggers have had to suffer 4 more home games.

I'm afraid that Rovers need 11 blokes to play football, and they have to come from somewhere, and have a reasonable level of ability. We've got that at the moment, and a fair bit of attitude as well.

We've even tried the entertaining football bit over the last few years, but although that brought a cup win, 6th place and Europe twice, Rovers fans (at least on here) have since made it clear they prefer 4-5-1 and security. And at the time, ST numbers fell by 3000, which I'm afraid leaves the "playing well" argument redundant.

Edited May 18, 2005 by Tris

[RevidgeBlue]

I think the only thing that will encourage people to buy season tickets, would be new signings.

This argument is made again and again and needs to be quantified.

Look at what a "quality signing" - the sort which brings in new ST holders or persuades existing ST holders to renew - actually costs. His name is Crowd Pleaser.

Lets's say £3 million as a basic fee, and a modest 20K a week on a 3 year contract.

Again, rounding down (and ignoring bonus payments and all other costs), you're already at 2 million pounds per year.

If each and every Season Ticket at Ewood Park brought in £400 (this is way too high given the number of kids and discount STs), the signing of Crowd Pleaser would tie up the revenue from 5 THOUSAND ST holders EVERY SEASON.

There is no way - even if Rovers re-signed Duff, Shearer and Dunn and also brought in (say) McCarthy and Gabbidon - that 5000 Blackburn folk are going to alter their intentions over buying a season ticket.

And that little lot would come for a combined fee of around 25 million (assumes Shearer would be a free) and annual wages of at least 12 million. Or 50 thousand new season ticket holders (full price) at Ewood.

So the idea that the club should gamble on some "crowd pleasing" signings in an effort to boost Season Ticket sales is totally and utterly out of the question.

It's going to be down to the same hard core fans again, and they will have to be content with more astute business from the club in the transfer market - which means frees, loans, cheap gambles and cast offs from elsewhere.

317179[/snapback]

Fair point but on the other hand Tris your post (as usual) conveniently ignores the fact that ticket income is currently relatively insignificant in relation to place money.

Assuming he is not an additional squad member and someone else is offloaded to balance up the wage bill "Mr. Crowd Pleaser" only has to stimulate an improvement of six places from our current 15th to pay for himself in twelve months leaving the club no worse off with a substantial capital asset on their hands.

[RevidgeBlue]

We've even tried the entertaining football bit over the last few years, but although that brought a cup win, 6th place and Europe twice, Rovers fans (at least on here) have since made it clear they prefer 4-5-1 and security. And at the time, ST numbers fell by 3000, which I'm afraid leaves the "playing well" argument redundant.

317182[/snapback]

Err......... no Rovers fans on here have made it clear they prefer playing 4-5-1 and winning games 1-0 or failing that not actually losing them than the dire fare and results served up under Souness last season.

Two seasons ago we finished 6th and responded by selling our two star players. That had an obvious effect, as has a prolonged period of largely uninspiring home form.

Just as damaging in my view has been the air of doom and despondancy created around the club over the last few seasons by John Williams and Souness in insisting that survival was the best that that anyone could hope for.

Thankfully we now have a bright young manager who is rightly promoting the hope and belief that we can challenge in the top half of the table next season.

I would expect this to halt the decline in season ticket sales, substantial increases will probably have to wait until the players show they can perform consistently well week in week out.

[Paul]

Tris and Revidge both make good, clear points which I agree with and I suspect you are actually singing from the same hymn sheet.

Summer signings? There is not a player Rovers can afford that is going to have any impact on ST sales, unless we ship out a considerable number to fund his salary and then the club still have to fund the transfer fee. If we are talking Craig "Thug" Bellamy or similar out of favour players, thanks but this does nothing for me, O'leary is welcome to him.

In recent months I have been impressed by the attitude displayed by Nelsen, Mokoena and Todd - 12-18 months ago I couldn't imagine being pleased to have won Todd's shirt in the MOTM poll. The first two seem to appreciate their good fortune, the third has taken his opportunity and matured by taking the responsibility associated with being a pro footballer. Contrast this with a player like Emerton, who clearly is interested in nothing but his wage slip, and you have part of the answer. Fill the team with Nelsens and ship out the Emertons - and I'm talking purely attitude here, one type appreciates his position, the other has no place at Ewood.

[Tris]

Fair point but on the other hand Tris your post (as usual) conveniently ignores the fact that ticket income is currently relatively insignificant in relation to place money.

Assuming he is not an additional squad member and someone else is offloaded to balance up the wage bill "Mr. Crowd Pleaser" only has to stimulate an improvement of six places from our current 15th to pay for himself in twelve months leaving the club no worse off with a substantial capital asset on their hands.

317192[/snapback]

And your reply Rev conveniently ignores the fact that as the Ewood wage bill is already around a dangerous 75% of turnover, it needs cutting not maintaining ...

... and our club cannot gamble sums of £6 million on the assumption that one single player may improve our league position by 6 (or even 2 or 3) places.

And the ones which turn into "substantial capital assets" are the exception rather than the norm. Do you think Robbie Savage is going to be a substantial capital asset this time next season?

To get back to the initial point before we lose sight of it -

there is not one single summer signing that Rovers can afford to make which is going to boost season ticket sales. End of story.

[den]

Well for my two penn'orth on boosting ticket sales, or attendances in general.

There is no reason to suggest that a big money signing will improve attendances. It could be argued that the signing of Andy Cole proved that. £7.5-8m was it? A recognised goalscorer and no proof that it made one iota of difference to the gates. In fact, the first home game after he signed, I believe the attendance was actually down on the previous one.

The clubs that see increases in gates, are in the main, from the clubs whose fans believe the club is moving forward. If they see improvements on the pitch and the right noises off the pitch, i.e. the positive noises coming from Hughes at the moment, they'll turn up.

Can anyone say that in the last two/three seasons rovers have been a club that have moved, or look like they're going to move in the right direction? Crap football, tied with negative feedback to the fans from the manager at the time - fans don't need or want that.

It isn't a lost cause though, far from it. An improvement in the football we've witnessed next season, combined with a new attitude to the clubs ambitions should at least, halt the decline in gates.

[RevidgeBlue]

Fair point but on the other hand Tris your post (as usual) conveniently ignores the fact that ticket income is currently relatively insignificant in relation to place money.

Assuming he is not an additional squad member and someone else is offloaded to balance up the wage bill "Mr. Crowd Pleaser" only has to stimulate an improvement of six places from our current 15th to pay for himself in twelve months leaving the club no worse off with a substantial capital asset on their hands.

317192[/snapback]

And your reply Rev conveniently ignores the fact that as the Ewood wage bill is already around a dangerous 75% of turnover, it needs cutting not maintaining ...

... and our club cannot gamble sums of £6 million on the assumption that one single player may improve our league position by 6 (or even 2 or 3) places.

And the ones which turn into "substantial capital assets" are the exception rather than the norm. Do you think Robbie Savage is going to be a substantial capital asset this time next season?

To get back to the initial point before we lose sight of it -

there is not one single summer signing that Rovers can afford to make which is going to boost season ticket sales. End of story.

317216[/snapback]

I agree fully that the wage bill needs to be trimmed, hopefully though this will be done by cutting down on some of the fringe members of an overbloated squad rather than by lack of investment in the first eleven.

When all is said and done every club, not just Rovers, has to take an element of risk in order to try and preserve premiership status.

Savage? Maybe not a player who has any potential for profit on resale but a substantial asset nonetheless if he helps bring about a wortwhile improvemnt in our league position over the next couple of seasns.

I guess the main point I'm trying to make is that it matters relatively little if any new signings boost attendances, what is more important is their potential to earn us more place mney.

[RevidgeBlue]

Tris and Revidge both make good, clear points which I agree with and I suspect you are actually singing from the same hymn sheet.

Summer signings? There is not a player Rovers can afford that is going to have any impact on ST sales, unless we ship out a considerable number to fund his salary and then the club still have to fund the transfer fee. If we are talking Craig "Thug" Bellamy or similar out of favour players, thanks but this does nothing for me, O'leary is welcome to him.

In recent months I have been impressed by the attitude displayed by Nelsen, Mokoena and Todd - 12-18 months ago I couldn't imagine being pleased to have won Todd's shirt in the MOTM poll.  The first two seem to appreciate their good fortune, the third has taken his opportunity and matured by taking the responsibility associated with being a pro footballer. Contrast this with a player like Emerton, who clearly is interested in nothing but his wage slip, and you have part of the answer. Fill the team with Nelsens and ship out the Emertons - and I'm talking purely attitude here, one type appreciates his position, the other has no place at Ewood.

317196[/snapback]

Excellent post Paul, couldn't agree more.

[waggy]

why do posts keep disappearing from this topic,i honestly think the price off season tickets will have more bearing on ticket sales than future signings,we are at the bottom off the money league now.

all future signings will be either unknown quantities,or players at the end off there career.3million was wasted on savage,yet the virtual free signings off mokoena and nelsen has offset that.

players that will put thousands on the gate,are rooney,beckham,henry etc all out of our range.we are stuck with this situation or until a fairygodmother turns up.

[Glenn]

I'm looking into why posts keep vanishing. Symptom of the new software I guess.

[RovertheHill]

Frankly it should be no suprise that people are being put off the Rovers. If you pick up the papers all you read about the club is negative. If you watch Sky - Andy Gray tends to be supportive but all the other muppets on Soccer Saturday tend to be negative. If you come on this message board a large chunk of the posts are negative!

Now part of this is down to the way we have played this season - but you can't blame Hughes for that - he was given a simple and clear objective to keep us up and he achieved it. He is rightly now looking to take the club forward, and for the first time in ages I feel quite optimistic with the direction of the club. I am happy to renew my season tickets but also completely aware that we can no longer look to splash out on big name players. If we can follow the Charlton model (or dare I say it, the Bolton model) and keep making progress then slowly but surely the crowds will increase. However, we must not delude ourselves - we are never going to get the kind of crowds we got 10 years ago

[Blackpool_Rover]

Anyone know when the renewal packs are being sent out!? I hate the way we leave it late when every other lcub is sending out applications in march. I leave the country next sunday for 3 months and need to sort it out before i go.

[Glenn]

This weekend I believe.

[Blue blood]

Can you get student STs and if so where in the ground?

Honestly thinking having a team we can identify with, rather than individuals will have more of a contrinution in raising ST ticket sales.

[Hughesy]

I spoke to them yesterday and they said hopefully by the end of the month! But not for sure

Anyone know when the renewal packs are being sent out!? I hate the way we leave it late when every other lcub is sending out applications in march. I leave the country next sunday for 3 months and need to sort it out before i go.

318383[/snapback]

[stuwilky]

Can you get student STs and if so where in the ground?

318405[/snapback]

Couldnt last term.

[CAPT KAYOS]

I spoke to them yesterday and they said hopefully by the end of the month! But not for sure

Nothing new there then

Is anybody else not really surprised about this?

[des]

first of all its too pay the players a fair wage, which is a lot lower than there are on now, I know its a free market however its a free market for the fans too.

Its been too long when all the power has been in the hands of the players and the fans have just paid up well enough is enough, I get paid £5.41 an hour as a mental health support worker and I only get paid for the clinets that I see so no clients no pay.

Footballs get paid whatever, in fact they want a extra payment for wining the every thing that they get paid to do, let then get pay as you play or based on the gate, let the free market run free and let us see which players are worth the high fee that they get.

Yes we are fans but we all have bills and familties to look after do the clubs and the players care for us. I think not.

So lets all live in the real world which means that the players have to as well and when this happens the fans might well return, if not the fans base as a whole will get smaller for all clubs as the match fees go higher and a working wage gets less.

people have only so much spare money and the does come a time when people of all clubs will say thats it, I can only go to a certain amount of games and that time is coming about now

[Ste B]

Is anybody else not really surprised about this?

318458[/snapback]

Not really no, as its going to be the same timescale as the last few seasons.

except after the season we finished 6th where they got out early and we lost season ticket holder.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I will be amazed if season ticket sales don't drop by at least 2000.

The unpredictability of kick off times/days has effectively wiped out the financial benefit of a season ticket for anyone who has even the slightest life outside of football, as they are bound to miss one or two games.

We have had 2 long seasons of miserable home form

We have just finished a season with our lowest goals scored total since err, pre 1888

We don't have a player on the books who can produce a moment of magic to set the pulse racing.

We never sell out these days

Personally, I can't think of one good reason to buy one other than you get the same seat for each match, and by inference like sitting next to the people around you.

Not much of a benefit to justify shelling out a small fortune. And even the altruistic notion of giving the club a cash flow benefit to tide them through the summer and fund player purchases has gone away because of the vast disparity between gate and place income.

Keep your money in the bank earning interest and pay as you go.

[Paul]

There are still a few reasons to buy an ST but I admit they are pretty thin these days:

Convenience - I couldn't do with having to ring up every week

Keeping your seat

Slightly cheaper and saves on charges for phone purchase

Cup tickets

That's it, not much of a list really. Sums up the problem for me. Without STs I suspect we'd end up skipping matches. Instead of arranging our time around football, we would arrange to go when it was convenient to do so. Which is one fundamental problem, the PL and Sky have srewed up big style on the whole issue of kick-off times etc. Said it before, I'll say it again - Sky has killed the game. The clubs took the devil's gold and are now reaping the reward.

I used to look forward to the arrival of my ST pack. Not anymore, it's just another bill.