[Archived] The Old Gate Debate

[FourLaneBlue]

Was talking to a mate last night who watched the game in the Royal Oak (never remember whether that's Lammack or Pleckgate) and he said the pub was packed.

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It's Pleckgate...and it's not the first time they have had games on this season by any stretch of the imagination. They are only one of many however. They are just doing what the other boozers are doing. There is obviously a market for it...but it's affecting Rovers. Stopping one pub showing it won't work as people will just go to another showing it. A few times I've seen people coming in and asking if the game is on only to leave to try somewhere else, albeit that was an away game so not so detrimental to the cash from Rovers. All the pubs would have to be blocked from showing the games on foreign TV...isn't there some way these channels could be blocked in the East Lancs area when Rovers are playing at home?

Sky seem to be hammering down our gates this season...if they are scheduling the higher-profile games at crappy times (Bolton, Liverpool etc) they are portraying us as thugs. Fortunately the latter seems to be improving thanks to the likes of Charlie Nicholas and Andy Gray having praised us but the gates may take longer to solve.

[Paul]

It's a Catch-22 situation...bring them in on offers for the big games but then many will be wanting tickets that cheap for every game! Rovers can't really win to be honest.

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The other major difficulty with promotions for the big games is the away support. I fully appreciate the point regarding enticing a new fan to ewood to watch Utd being easier than Sunderland. I'm sure PL rules require equal pricing for home and away support, now if we can sell 8000 tickets to Utd at £30 what is the point in having to offer some of those at say £1?

[RevidgeBlue]

Because the Utd fan will only be there one game a season but the floating Rover might return several times that season and many times in the future.

A pound is a bit of an extreme example to use for ManUre, prices wouldn't have to be that low.

[RevidgeBlue]

No it isn't Simon.  It means giving every kid there yesterday £14 back!  We would lose money.

Come off it Gordon, how many kids would have been there on Saturday at 15 quid as opposed to already on cheap season tickets? Hardly any?

Thats just a slap in the face for ST holders Simon.  Would you purchase a ST next year knowing that you could get in and have a superb view for a tenner?

Why would that upset ST holders? Personally I wouldn't want to queue at 2p.m. for a limited number of cheap tickets not knowing if I'd get one or not. But some people might.

We debate this until we are blue in the face, BRISA can meet and discuss over and over again, JW can rack his brains till the end BUT in a business perspective their is only one solution...... but few are mature enough to face the inevitability of that particular situation.

Ah........... the old Lancashire United chestnut again. Given good management on the pitch there is nothing inevitablwe about our demise at all. Tell you what we'll swap all our TV/place money for the income from a 31,768 full house every home game. No? Didn't think so.

If a particular idea for boosting attendances doesn't work we need to move onto the next one until something does strike a chord.

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[thenodrog]

* the average revenue per seat, per game at Ewood is £13 - get that £13

* there is little or no room for further discounting

* everything the club does must consider the impact on season ticket value

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Well lets hope that puts cheap seats to bed once and for all. £13 for a Prem match! There is nowhere to go with that one I'm afraid.

On Sat I went into the International suite at the Darwen End....(the club had emailed me with an offer of two free passes so long being in favour of BRFC gleaning extra revenue by attracting both pre and post-match drinkers / eaters I turned up with my mate.) We've used this facility to take customers in the past and its just right. They need better beer certainly but apart from that it was an enjoyable experience compared to our usual pre match routine. Couple of pints and a bite to eat was just the job.

Sat match days must cost me about 40-50 quid with half that going on the ST so getting me to part with the other half at Ewood rather than local pubs should be priority to any competent marketeer and even to a crap old striker.

Tris'll blow a gasket here but whilst it's obviously illegal and problematically political but if pubs do it then why dont BRFC investigate showing 'delayed' away matches in their own facilities? Discount the beer a bit and they could blow the pubs away! They will inevitably get prosecuted but the biter bit is that the pubs will then have to face the music too. The police / authorities would be forced to act.

[AggyBlue]

With regards to a Safe Standing area, Hughes in his after match interview on Rovervision ended with the words ' our aim is to get bums off seats '

So now we can quote the manager as being in favour of standing

[cletus]

Why not have kids tickets on a rising scale?

eg:-

under 8s....free (must be with an adult......you get the adult ££ after all)

under 12s....£1 (must be with an adult......same as above)

under 16s....£2.50

students/OAPs....£5

The club could make these 'offers' to people who subscribe to a club membership scheme ...of say couple of quid a season. That would cover costs of running a database of fans.....(something the club can 'tap into' for future reference purposes) A database of information would also be useful to see if a scheme like this actually works over a longer period of time.

Just an idea.......over to the wolves on here!

[bb3]

Landlords who show live football at 3pm on a Saturday are not businessmen - they are criminals.  In the same way that people who flog fake or copied DVDs are criminals.  In the same way that people flog fake or stolen watches at service stations are criminals.

They haven't paid the suppliers for the goods they are taking a profit from - and it's illegal.

Tris-I know it's illegal and I wish it wasn't happening,but if there are two pubs on the road and only one is showing the game then one pub will be full the other will not,the landlord with the empty pub then decides to start showing games,whether it's illegal or not that's a business decision.

I agree it needs to be stamped down on,but people aren't gonna start reporting the landlord of their local pub,well I wouldn't anyway,it has to be a full clampdown on all pubs or block the signal if that can be done.

[Shaddy]

I agree it needs to be stamped down on,but people aren't gonna start reporting the landlord of their local pub,well I wouldn't anyway,it has to be a full clampdown on all pubs or block the signal if that can be done.

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Wouldn't a business decision be to sue for unfair competition?

[thenodrog]

Get this! I rang the club today to enquire about a season ticket to cover the remaining 6 home games of the season (idea for a 30th birthday prezzy). I was told politely that the only thing they could do was to sell me a half season ticket which would cover 11 games ....of which five have been played already!

I pointed out that no one in their right minds would purchase on those terms and asked why the price of a half season ticket could not simply be divided by 11 and multiplied by 6 as the 'spent' vouchers had no value. Apparently though this is totally impossible! Kinell.....We can put a man on the moon, clone both living and long dead animals, converse instantly with people all across the globe but we cannot get one ticket to cover half a dozen games in a 2/3 empty stadium!

I was told the man responsible is Tom Finn so I shall be emailing him shortly to see if anything can be done. Personally I find all this bloody strange given that I have absolutely no problem in spending money anywhere else these days! I suppose that after dealing with the commercial dept at BRFC for 40 odd years I should not be suprised eh? Well I'm not.......... I'm bloody gobsmacked.

I suppose we'll just have to arrange a sky dive or strip-o-gram.

[ABBEY]

When i was a kid (many moons ago) i used to go down to Ewood with a couple of school friends & their die-hard Rovers fan grandma 

It only cost something like 50p to get in, so i used to ask my mum for for pocket money (about £1) & tootle off to Ewood with my pals. I`d even get some sweets on the way there!

Nowadays, it`s a bl00dy expensive trip for kids to see the Rovers. A quick glance on the official site says, juniors:-

£15 -catagory A+

£12 -catagory A

£5  - catagory B

I have 6 neices & nephews who all support Rovers but very rarely go- mainly because those prices aren`t pocket money prices. It`s downright scandalous to ask kids to pay £15 FFS!!!

Bellamy11 stated Rovers need to get fans in on a long term basis but also understands the short term needs. I agree, BRFC need the dosh but are losing the next generation of supporters coming through the gates. Clubs like Liverpool & Man Ure have a conveyerbelt of gloryhunting youngsters ready to take the place of any seasonticket holder who gives it up.....Rovers don`t!! As previous seasons have proved.....when we lose our fans, it`s hard to get them back & it affects gates in a big way.

One way of turning BRFC`s declining gates problem around, is to get the kids into Ewood before they discover the bigger clubs down the road. A concerted effort by BRFC to offer kids tickets for a quid (for every game) will hopefully lead to a new breed of diehard fans they can fleece in later years!

Why not just try it for one season??...if that don`t work,then we`re buggered!!

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AS SOME KNOW MY LITTLE LAD HAS HAD HIS SEASON TICKET SINCE HE 2 1/2 ...FREE.....HE GOT HOOKED AND HIS A PROUD ROVER ,HES CHANGED HIS MATE AT SCHOOL .WOULD I HAVE PAID 14,14 16 QUID TO BRING HIM ..NO,WOULD HE BE A ROVER NOW ?WHO KNOWS.I WAS BROUGHT DOWN AT THREE AND IT WAS AFFORDABLE TO FOR MY LATE DAD.

JUST GOT FROM BOLTON AND TALKIED TO SOME OF MATES WHO WATCHED THERE GAME IN THE LUSH..THEY SAID ITS TO EXPENSIVE 35 QUID OR A FEW PINTS IN THE PUB?ITS HAPPENNING EVERYWHERE .

[S15]

Ticket prices are going to make very little difference.

Especially when nobody knows about them.

The truth is, only success will bring back the crowds.

And success isn't being 5th in late February one season. We have to build and keep up these high standards on the pitch, and slowly but surely, the crowds will rise.

I mean ticket prices are at a point where they can only be lowered a small amount more. Say by 2 or 3 quid on a consistant basis. And that amount off a 25 quid product is hardly going to make peoples mouths water is it?

Success is the only way.

[RevidgeBlue]

I pointed out that no one in their right minds would purchase on those terms and asked why the price of a half season ticket could not simply be divided by 11 and multiplied by 6 as the 'spent' vouchers had no value.  Apparently though this is totally impossible!  Kinell.....We can put a man on the moon, clone both living and long dead animals, converse instantly with people all across the globe but we cannot get one ticket to cover half a dozen games in a 2/3 empty stadium! 

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It's enough to make you weep isn't it!.

How much do we pay our executive directors? half a million a year?

Hence my idea above of "a champions league charge" (or similar) ticket to cover the remaining games.

Doubt my idea, or yours, will be taken up though. They make far too much sense.

[dave birch]

How about selling tickets in pairs, or threes?

You match, say Manu or Chelsea tickets, with Sunderland, or Portsmouth, you have to buy both to get the Manu /Chelsea ticket.

Obviously, they would have to be on sale upto the first home game of the double ticket, then sold as per normal.

I realise there are problems with it, but put it up as an idea to be discussed....

As for the situation Theno found himself in, there can only be one word to describe it: "gobsmacked". I could understand if the Rovers didn't need the custom.

[Shaddy]

suprised eh?  Well I'm not.......... I'm bloody gobsmacked. 

387117[/snapback]

Not having a go or anything, but I am suprised that you are suprised by that.

If they did that, where would it end? At a splitting off the pass on just the last game? Who would pay the regular ticket price on the last day, if they could get a fractioned half-season pass?

What you are looking for is Rovers to go one step further and provide a quarter season pass... perhaps they should. I really don't know.

[dave birch]

Shaddy, I think the fact that the Rovers didn't try to find a solution smacks of an amateur organisation unable to do something for a supporter.

[AggyBlue]

There must be an answer using a card similar to a season ticket.

Database members could be given one on request and all they would need to do was to phone the ticket office, pick an empty seat and pay for however many consecutive games they could afford. Relevant savings deducted on a sliding scale for more games bought.

Cards would be retained and could be used at any time during the season to add more games/ change seats once the initial 'credits had expired'. An ordinary ticket sent out with seat/games paid for.

Maybe this is beyond the present ticket office administration but certainly not beyond the system.

Just an idea, I'll get me coat

Edited February 27, 2006 by AggyBlue

[Shaddy]

Shaddy, I think the fact that the Rovers didn't try to find a solution smacks of an amateur organisation unable to do something for a supporter.

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But surely the ticket office (theno said club, but I understand it to mean the TO) can't make or overrule commercial decisions. Contacting someone who can, as Theno appears to be doing now, seems to be the right way to go.

And my gut feeling is that something will be sorted out... because Rovers seem to be a unique club in this regard. But I suspect it is under-appreciated.

[American]

MLS teams do it, so I'm sure it isn't difficult.

[Tris]

It's enough to make you weep isn't it!.

How much do we pay our executive directors? half a million a year?

Hence my idea above of "a champions league charge" (or similar) ticket to cover the remaining games.

Doubt my idea, or yours, will be taken up though. They make far too much sense.

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Your attitudes are quite ridiculous really.

Just because Rovers have gone 5th on the back of a couple of wins, you expect them to suddenly put together a package which suits the immediate situation because - presumably - people are too lazy to contemplate buying on a match by match basis for the remaining 6 home games (and that is therefore an excuse for not going at all).

I bet nobody was making this rather strange demand after the crap defeat at The Hawthorns a couple of weeks ago. Birthday present or not, it's a pretty big ask.

If you suddenly have to make a regular journey but it doesn't fit with Virgin Trains / GNER / British Airways / bmi's existing ticketing offerings, do you expect them to create a one off 6 week ticket just to fit your needs??

Do you go to Sainsburys / Tesco online and do the weekly shop, and then find an option to duplicate it for the next six weeks without having to lift another finger??!

I'm not saying the concept is a bad one - in fact it's a very good one, and I'm sure that as Rovers look more and more into such things (and further develop Ski Data) then we'll see such concepts before too long.

But to slag off the Rovers board because you picked up the phone this morning and some ticket office oik couldn't immediately sell you a 6 game season ticket (because no such thing exists) is ridiculous.

[RevidgeBlue]

If you suddenly have to make a regular journey but it doesn't fit with Virgin Trains / GNER / British Airways / bmi's existing ticketing offerings, do you expect them to create a one off 6 week ticket just to fit your needs??

Do you go to Sainsburys / Tesco online and do the weekly shop, and then find an option to duplicate it for the next six weeks without having to lift another finger??!

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1) No, but as I understand it you can get huge discounts with Virgin/most airlines by booking long enough in advance instead.

2) The Tesco option would be useless unless you wanted exactly the same order every week.

As I said above the Watford chairman claimed on the radio at the weekend they were still actively pushing half season tickets on the basis tnr suggests and that they had shifted 500 in the previous seven days alone.

[dave birch]

Tris, don't you think that it's about being flexible enough to accommodate another customer?

Everyone bangs on about losing support, here's an opportunity to redress some of that loss, and they go and blow it.

Doesn't make sense to me.

[Alan75]

1) No, but as I understand it you can get huge discounts with Virgin/most airlines by booking long enough in advance instead.

Isnt that what a season ticket does.

Although that discount becomes erroded if.

How about selling tickets in pairs, or threes?

You match, say Manu or Chelsea tickets, with Sunderland, or Portsmouth, you have to buy both to get the Manu /Chelsea ticket.

Why bother buying a season ticket in advance for 19 games, when in July you dont know how good a season its going to be. Why not wait until February. If the team are doing well, then buy a bundle for the remaining games.

[Paul]

Plenty of good ideas kicking about on here, all of which BRISA has already discussed with the club. We are expecting to publish the detail next Monday.

As for the club not being able to suddenly magic ticket packages out of the air? Well consider this, if we'd been tonked 4-0 by Arsenal we would be 9th - cash still burning a hole in your pocket at that point theno? I very, very much doubt it. What you were actually asking for was a match ticket bundle, if the club introduces these you can kiss goodbye to ST sales over night. But that wouldn't matter beacuse I'm sure Lancashire United would offer such packages.

[RevidgeBlue]

I can fully appreciate the argument against a sliding scale seson ticket or half season ticket, if the reduction is directly proportionate there's little or no point in getting a seson ticket in July or a half season ticket at Christmas.

Also in the case of the half season tickets from memory they were very good value originally. But in tnr's case if the club were prepared to meet halfway and knock something off the eleven game price then tnr (and many others) may be more inclined to make a purchase.

The fact we've just beaten Arsenal to go 5th is surely irrelevant. It surely can't be that unforseeable that people at any stage might want to buy a ST or half ST late can it?