[Archived] The Old Gate Debate

[stuwilky]

This is Middlesbrough, the same club where the attendance has fallen from an average of about 32k 2 or 3 years ago to 28k or so these days? Despite having a population are of in excess of 300k, with no other top flight teams in the area? And very few other professional teams to boot.

Edited November 20, 2006 by stuwilky

[ihateburnley]

I want to know why in 3 short years our attendances have gone through the floor for a very 'successful' town club in the top flight.The decrease is extraordinary.....how have a similar sized club like Middlesbrough managed to maintain over 27K average crowds?

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/census2001/py.../pages/00ec.asp

SG194 - I know what you're getting at, but you can't compare the attendances of Rovers to that of Middlesbrough just because the sizes of the towns populations are similar. Boro's main rivals are Sunderland and Newcastle which are 33 and 44 miles away respectively. In the whole chunk of North East England you basically have three main clubs with a sprinkling of smaller clubs such as Darlington and Hartlepool.

The North West as we know is a true hotbed of football - but unlike London our population cannot meet the demands of a number of football clubs;

Burnley - 11 miles

Preston - 11 miles

Bolton - 13 miles

Bury - 23 miles

Rochdale - 24 miles

Blackpool - 27 miles

Wigan - 27 miles

Oldham - 32 miles

Manchester City - 34 miles

Manchester United - 38 miles

Liverpool - 41 miles

Everton - 41 miles

And there's more. You could even throw Leeds/Bradford into the equation and the list is seemingly endless. I think we do relatively well to get how many we do on Ewood, compared to 'similar size clubs' such as Middlesbrough and Fulham.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Ahhhh but here's the rub,all these 'local' clubs didn't seem to pose such a problem even only as little far back as 2002/03 season did they IHB?

With all due respect it seems to be a ready made excuse for what is happening at the moment.

Its the atrophy and general apathy of support from within the town of Blackburn itself that worries me most and clearly at present there is no light whatsoever at the end of the tunnel for Rovers with this issue.What would be the impact of a relegation struggle this season on gates for next season?

We can only pray and hope that matters dont get as bad as when Burnley last played in the top flight infront of gates of 11/12,000 in the late 70's.

Edited November 20, 2006 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[Tris]

SG194 - I know what you're getting at, but you can't compare the attendances of Rovers to that of Middlesbrough just because the sizes of the towns populations are similar. Boro's main rivals are Sunderland and Newcastle which are 33 and 44 miles away respectively. In the whole chunk of North East England you basically have three main clubs with a sprinkling of smaller clubs such as Darlington and Hartlepool.

The North West as we know is a true hotbed of football - but unlike London our population cannot meet the demands of a number of football clubs;

Burnley - 11 miles

Preston - 11 miles

Bolton - 13 miles

Bury - 23 miles

Rochdale - 24 miles

Blackpool - 27 miles

Wigan - 27 miles

Oldham - 32 miles

Manchester City - 34 miles

Manchester United - 38 miles

Liverpool - 41 miles

Everton - 41 miles

And there's more.

There certainly is at least one more.

Who are they?

Exaccally.

[philipl]

Add Redcar and Cleveland and Stockton to those Middlesbrough figures and there is a home town population of 440,000 for Boro to attract from- that's before getting into much of North Yorkshire, Teesdale and South Durham.

Boro 55 seasons ago were playing to 35,000 sold out gates every other week.

@drog you don't seem very impressed with the club's efforts to attract the "Indo-Pak" population of the town. How would you improve the club's efforts in this respect and what are you personally doing in this regard?

Edited November 20, 2006 by philipl

[Billinge End Blue]

<Its the atrophy and general apathy of support from within the town of Blackburn itself that worries me most and clearly at present there is no light whatsoever at the end of the tunnel for Rovers with this issue.>

SG194 What were your views back in the mid-eighties Don Mackay era - was your embarrassment at regular <5000 Ewood gates so acute that you didn't dare appear in public? You definitely see your glass (local ground) as half-empty rather than half-full!

Is it only the actual numbers that cause you such anguish? Why do you focus your frustration on the local bandwagon-jumpers who no longer come down rather than those who used to travel to Ewood from further afield (eg greater than 5 miles) ? To get the crowds you expect and demand inevitably requires a greater catchment area than Blackburn (even 'with Darwen'). Do you not recognise and accept that many of the new fans who came along when our home support was at its largest over the last 10 years were of a certain persuasion/demographic that were never going to be with us for the long haul?

Your definition of 'apathy of support' and mine differ greatly. I remember those small Division 2 home crowds displaying a lot more passion than we do nowadays. Would you be happier with 30000 prawn sandwich eaters or 15000 hard-core fans? The game itself and the role of the supporter as 'customer' concept has alienated many former fans from the latter category to the extent they no longer go regularly. Ubiquitous TV screenings are a convenient excuse/justification for others. Ticket price, perceived and relative, not necessarily actual, and ancillary costs are another.

There is no single factor in this, just as there is no silver bullet to reverse our attendance decline.

Many are finding that the Rovers continental excursions this season offer a bit of what has been lost with supporting at Ewood over recent years; lively, boisterous and with a degree excitement and adventure. Look at how many are off to Feyenoord on Thursday with all that that trip entails. I suppose John Williams and yourself would prefer the ones who aren't regular Ewood attenders (there's more than a few) to be directing their enthusiasm and cash to the Fulham and Nancy games but perhaps a big Rovers following in Rotterdam might rekindle your faith and pride in your fellow supporters (at least for a short while)?

[Manchester Blue]

Ok SG seeing as you are so embarrassed I did a quick bit of research. The figure on the left is 3 years ago and the one on the right is current.

Man City 44,354 39178

Boro 30398 27647

Bolton 26795 23125

Rovers 24376 21369

They are the 4 most significant ones this year and I can't be bothered to them all. Some clubs have improved like Arse, Chelsea and Man U, the rest have remained about the same or dropped slightly. The point is though you can bang on all about how ashamed you are but open your eyes and you will see it affecting a lot more clubs than just us.

Edited November 21, 2006 by Manchester Blue

[stegraham]

I think it'll be interesting to keep an eye on the European Football Statistics website this season. If you look at the figures so far at:

2006/2007 Season

You'll see that after 6 games our attendance as improved by 4.3%. I'm not 100% sure if this is compared to the first 6 games of last season, or the the entire 05/06 season. Of course we've had a couple of "big" teams at Ewood, so the figures may be up because of the United etc game. We'll have to see what the percentage is at the close of the season.

Newcastle, Man City, Boro, Bolton and Wigan all all down on last season, whilst (predictably) the newly promoted teams, Arsenal and United have grown.

PS we haven't had one 3pm saturday kick off have we at Ewood this season, have we? I sure this doesn't help.

Edited November 21, 2006 by stegraham

[Presty On Tour]

sky games at home on a sunday is the worst cause of our attendence decline imo.

[thenodrog]

PS we haven't had one 3pm saturday kick off have we at Ewood this season, have we? I sure this doesn't help.

Wrong! It just provides a tired and lame excuse for the stay aways (all I'm sure proud possessors of a Premiership 'T' shirt mind ). The lack of Saturday kick offs is a consequence of our successfull season last year and European qualification and progression. It should be seen as nothing other than that and by rights should have resulted in increased attendance.

People who have not football deep in their blood are simply growing tired of BRFC eating at the top table. What was 15 years ago deemed as our Shangri-La is now as enthralling as a cup of cold tea for the pretend supporters. Need proof just look in their eyes.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Without wishing to bite the hand that feeds us. The main reason for our decline in gates (imo) is the advent of Sky Football First. Why bother going to a match if you can watch all the best bits ? Add to this ever increasing number of live matches - and is it any wonder gates are declining ? Get rid of Sky and we would be selling out far more frequently - however without Sky we couldn't afford to pay the players wages.

We are also seeing a resurgence in local clubs - Burnley punching above their weight (well until recently), PNE doing wonders (considering their squad), Blackpool with new Latvian owners etc.

[gumboots]

why bother to go when you can watch it on TV? well, personally I know there's nothing like a live match, especially a live evening match when you're enclosed in Ewood and it's dark outside the glow of the floodlights. If we don't go there'll be no live football because you can't play in an empty stadium. I always tell kids who say to me that they'll watch it on TV that they just do not know what they are missing. It was awful on sunday though seeing just how empty Ewood looked on TV. I keep trying to persuade my pupils to come but would welcome support from the club in the form of leaflets and posters when there are special offers on. Quite often I tell kids about cheap tickets and they haven't been aware of them. They tend to walk around with their eyes closed most of the time.

[only2garners]

why bother to go when you can watch it on TV? well, personally I know there's nothing like a live match, especially a live evening match when you're enclosed in Ewood and it's dark outside the glow of the floodlights. If we don't go there'll be no live football because you can't play in an empty stadium. I always tell kids who say to me that they'll watch it on TV that they just do not know what they are missing. It was awful on sunday though seeing just how empty Ewood looked on TV. I keep trying to persuade my pupils to come but would welcome support from the club in the form of leaflets and posters when there are special offers on. Quite often I tell kids about cheap tickets and they haven't been aware of them. They tend to walk around with their eyes closed most of the time.

Have you tried asking the club for some help? I'm sure if you called marketing they would be keen to work with you.

[blue phil]

Quite often I tell kids about cheap tickets and they haven't been aware of them. They tend to walk around with their eyes closed most of the time.

I'm rapidly coming to the conclusion that ticket prices must be fixed at the same price for all league matches throughout the season - and , needless to say , kids tickets must be set at no more than a fiver . Kids have to be indoctrinated into the true faith at an early age .

At present the Rovers are chopping and changing and forever coming up with new gimmicks . The average walk-on punter won't bother reading about "The Card" for example .....even I can't be bothered to suss that one out .

[Paul Mellelieu]

I think lots of people are just sick of football, footballers and all the crap that surrounds it.

[thenodrog]

I think lots of people are just sick of football, footballers and all the crap that surrounds it.

I partly agree with you except that their highly developed sense of outrage doesn't stop em watching some scratchy El Arabic / Canal (or whatever) coverage in some dingy pub at the end of their street whilst getting severely pissedup does it?

[SouthAussieRover]

I partly agree with you except that their highly developed sense of outrage doesn't stop em watching some scratchy El Arabic / Canal (or whatever) coverage in some dingy pub at the end of their street whilst getting severely pissedup does it?

There's nothing wrong with that.They are paying to get pissedup in the pub.It's their money and they can choose to waste in such a way if they wish.

There saving money whilst others are paying to get pissedup whilst travelling to Holland, prior to watching Feyenoord and most likely whilst watching Feyenoord.

Edited November 22, 2006 by SouthAussieRover

[RoversFan96.It]

Just seen N'castle had crap attendance(only 25.079) against Celta Vigo,which's not Barcelona,but anyway more attractive than Salzburg,Basel or Nancy...And in any case 25.079's just poor for so called big team N'castle

[blue phil]

I partly agree with you except that their highly developed sense of outrage doesn't stop em watching some scratchy El Arabic / Canal (or whatever) coverage in some dingy pub at the end of their street whilst getting severely pissedup does it?

I resent that

[FourLaneBlue]

Which part do you resent? Or is it all of it?

[eddiecolne]

Just been shopping at Colne Asda, and they have the official Blackburn Rovers 2007 calenders on sale!

No big deal to most people, but over this side of East Lancs, shops selling rovers stuff officail or un-official is about as rare as a dingle without a criminal record. Somebody in the marketing department has decided to branch out, about bloody time. Best bit was when a little lad, about seven/eight, pointed at the calendar i was looking at, and said, "Robbie Savage" One small step, and all that.

PS Didn't see any dingle calenders for sale Though I admit I never looked on the top shelf under obcene.

[Billy Castell]

The Burnley calander only does August to December, as their year only counts anything in those months.

[MarkBRFC]

Be interesting to see what tomorrows gate is, even though the tickets are reasonably priced Fulham arnt exactly a crowd puller and they'll bring there usual 400.

Didnt last years gate against fulham only attract 16000ish? Can see it being worse tomorrow unfortunatly.

[Wolverine]

Not surprised though, with a 3pm Saturday kick off...

Who the hell thought of that? I tell you this now - it won't catch on and the fans wont stand for it.

[philipl]

The only thing that is falling faster than the number of bums on seats is the balls in nets.