[Archived] The Old Gate Debate

[RevidgeBlue]

That might mean working together without the "big" clubs - it should be remembered that they need the rest of the league just as much - if not more- than we need them . Sky should be made aware that that is the case as well ....

I know what you're saying, but I think we and they need each other equally as badly. Take the "big four" out of the Premiership and what's it's attraction? You'd merely be left with an extended Championship. I think we're kidding ourselves if we think Charlton v Fulham or Blackburn v Bolton is any more attractive to the neutral than say Sothampton v Leicester or Derby v Wolves.

By the same token if the "big four" were thinking of breaking away I can't believe there's any real appetite amongst the vast majority of football fans for playing European football every week as opposed to their more local rivals.

[Paul]

There's a thing we run at half time advertising the corporate side of things. I'm not that interested in the corporate stuff but I always find the ad on Rovervision quite stirring. Do we need a bit more of this, aimed at general fans rather than corporate?

[Fife Rover]

Well said IHB.

Compare Gerald Jackson's sanitised Ewood matchday 'experience' with an Accy Stanley home game.

Much less expensive ticket (it is "div 4").

No crappy music opn the PA.

You can stand up.

Stewarding reasonable.

The pitch is so close so you can hear the players & the tackles.

No big screen.

NO DRUMMER.

No Gerald Jackson.

Decent pies.

No childrens section in the home end - Hallelujah!

No Rovervision.

Half-time devoted to refreshments & scores.

A crackin' experience.

Or in other words: Football matches as they used to be from time imemorial right up to the invention of the Premiership. I know exactly what it feels like both from the experience gained from 1946 onwards at Ewood and several other grounds where I found myself based nearby at different points in my career, and also from recently returning to watching "grass roots" football in Scotland. I can assure you all that it is neither better nor worse than watching Rovers today at Ewood; it is just "different" but equally entertaining and enthralling and costs (for me) MUCH less. I would also add that watching the grass roots football at little clubs like Cowdenbeath (or Accy Stanley), East Fife, etc etc is to me far more entertaining and much preferable to watching any of the worlds "BIG CLUBS" whether in the Prem or in Europe if Rovers are not involved; i.e. if Chelsea were playing Man U. on the telly (or even in my back garden) and Cowdenbeath or East Fife were at home at the same time I would be off to see them everytime.

That's just me; the way I am; you lot please yourself.

[Billinge End Blue]

<<QUOTE(MCMC1875 @ Dec 3 2006, 12:06 )

Well said IHB.

Compare Gerald Jackson's sanitised Ewood matchday 'experience' with an Accy Stanley home game.

Much less expensive ticket (it is "div 4").

No crappy music opn the PA.

You can stand up.

Stewarding reasonable.

The pitch is so close so you can hear the players & the tackles.

No big screen.

NO DRUMMER.

No Gerald Jackson.

Decent pies.

No childrens section in the home end - Hallelujah!

No Rovervision.

Half-time devoted to refreshments & scores.

A crackin' experience.

and

No Tugay, no Brad, no Bennie, in fact no international players whatsoever, no famous opponents, no media coverage, no superb stadium etc etc

sorry but my last word on that subject..........NO piggin way. >>

Why can't a Rovers fan attending Ewood choose between an 'Accy Stanley' type of experiece in one part of the ground and whatever it is that currently floats folk like Thenodrog's boat (prawn sandwiches?) in another? Ewood Park is certainly big enough to cater for both aspects but those in authority at the club only ever consider supporter choice from a single perspective.

[thenodrog]

<<QUOTE(MCMC1875 @ Dec 3 2006, 12:06 )

Well said IHB.

Compare Gerald Jackson's sanitised Ewood matchday 'experience' with an Accy Stanley home game.

Much less expensive ticket (it is "div 4").

No crappy music opn the PA.

You can stand up.

Stewarding reasonable.

The pitch is so close so you can hear the players & the tackles.

No big screen.

NO DRUMMER.

No Gerald Jackson.

Decent pies.

No childrens section in the home end - Hallelujah!

No Rovervision.

Half-time devoted to refreshments & scores.

A crackin' experience.

and

No Tugay, no Brad, no Bennie, in fact no international players whatsoever, no famous opponents, no media coverage, no superb stadium etc etc

sorry but my last word on that subject..........NO piggin way. >>

Why can't a Rovers fan attending Ewood choose between an 'Accy Stanley' type of experiece in one part of the ground and whatever it is that currently floats folk like Thenodrog's boat (prawn sandwiches?) in another? Ewood Park is certainly big enough to cater for both aspects but those in authority at the club only ever consider supporter choice from a single perspective.

2 significant errors BEB.

1. You quoted my post not mcmc1875's.

2. Prawn sandwiches? My ST's on the bloody Riverside ffs! Where the service is so slow that it's virtually impossible to get a piggin pie during the half time interval. btw despite frequent mentions over the years this sad situation has never been addressed by the mgment. imo for what it's worth the CE should view at least one game from every stand during each season to pick up on the fans eye view.

[Fife Rover]

2 significant errors BEB.

1. You quoted my post not mcmc1875's.

2. Prawn sandwiches? My ST's on the bloody Riverside ffs! Where the service is so slow that it's virtually impossible to get a piggin pie during the half time interval. btw despite frequent mentions over the years this sad situation has never been addressed by the mgment. imo for what it's worth the CE should view at least one game from every stand during each season to pick up on the fans eye view.

Now that IS a sensible suggestion Theno.

[Fife Rover]

Well they seem to have started...

The date on that article says Sept 25, 2005. Over a year ago!

What, if anything, has come out of it?

[joey_big_nose]

I know what you're saying, but I think we and they need each other equally as badly. Take the "big four" out of the Premiership and what's it's attraction? You'd merely be left with an extended Championship. I think we're kidding ourselves if we think Charlton v Fulham or Blackburn v Bolton is any more attractive to the neutral than say Sothampton v Leicester or Derby v Wolves.

I'm not sure that's true. I think most people would much rather watch a premiership game than a championship all things being equal, simply due to the much higher standard of play.

[Paul]

Could it be that football as a whole has to look into this, not just Rovers, for any real progress to be made?

I've been saying this for 4-5 years. The PL needs to look very closely at its activities and question whether or not the current format is good for the long-term future of the game. Regretably modern footnall is so money driven the bulk of clubs have totally forgotten about the customers - US. (I exclude Rovers from that criticism). Collectively the clubs have squandered the massive financial benefits available to them since the advent of Sky and the PL by allowing at least 80% of all revenues to flow out of the game.

Years ago I was posting Sky would kill the game, well it finally has. Football is a massively over-exposed, over-priced product that has completely lost contact with its paying customer. Until the clubs come to collectively recognise this nothing will change, despite all the mealy-mouthed comments that come from the FA and the PL. Attendances are unlilkley to improve while any fan can get his daily footie dose from a variety of sources. The first step has to be limit televised games to one a week. If Sky don't like it they can take their ball home, someone else will pick it up. If this means smaller TV revenues the players will have to be paid less. Simple.

[philipl]

My gut feel is that with the foreign money men having come into the game to make money, there will be much tighter control over wages than in the past- this is happening with recent surveys showing a dramatic reduction in wage increases.

The PL is already the most powerful league financially so apart from Chelsea, Arsenal and Mancs going toe-to-toe with AC, Barca and Real there isn't any external competitive push on wages.

If the PL is sensible, the smaller clubs will get a modest change to distribution favouring themselves and particularly the relegated clubs. The PL has a 14 vote one club one vote rule so this should be possible.

A move like this will hopefully take away some of the massive fear factor that exists within the Premiership now and hopefully reverse the current collapse in goal scoring.

Secondly, all except the London and CL-type clubs should take advantage of the new broadcasting windfall next season and seriously cut ticket prices. A PL initiative to reduce prices by 25% or more has to be the way forwards to offset the massive disincentive of games no longer being habituated on Saturdays at 3pm.

Next season, BT will be broadcasting the Setanta rights as well as 75% of all other games on delay.

The balance has got to be tipped back to the fan in the stadium, particularly the travelling fans who create the atmosphere in all seater stadia. The PL has to incentivise away fans. Perhaps a rule should be introduced whereby the tickets for visiting fans should be made available at the price those fans pay for home matches if distributed by the visiting club on a membership or season ticket basis.

Edited December 4, 2006 by philipl

[Paul]

Next season, BT will be broadcasting the Setanta rights as well as 75% of all other games on delay.

From the very little I've heard of it the BT Vision proposal sounds excellent, not just for football but generasl access to a whole range of products via broadband. It's already got me seriously thinking about what equipment I shall need to take advantage of the service, something I would never consider with Sky.

The balance has got to be tipped back to the fan in the stadium, particularly the travelling fans who create the atmosphere in all seater stadia. The PL has to incentivise away fans. Perhaps a rule should be introduced whereby the tickets for visiting fans should be made available at the price those fans pay for home matches if distributed by the visiting club on a membership or season ticket basis.

I'd fully agree with the first half of your first sentence but I feel you're very wrong on the rest. This has been mooted before, reducing prices for away fans in some form or another. I feel this is utterly wrong, every club's first duty is to look after its own support and I would be deeply upset if we reach a situation where it's cheaper for away support to enter Ewood than it is someone from the local area. PL prices are too high and all fans are asked to pay too much. What difference does a cheaper ticket make if you're travelling from London? None at all. I cannot see an justification for cheap tickets for the away support unless the same offer is available to local fans as with the Bolton promotion.

[philipl]

The biggest beneficiary under the scheme I suggested would be Rovers fans as we already have the cheapest tickets.

[thenodrog]

The PL has to incentivise away fans. Perhaps a rule should be introduced whereby the tickets for visiting fans should be made available at the price those fans pay for home matches if distributed by the visiting club on a membership or season ticket basis.

Incentivise fans? How can you possibly comment on that?

Anyway no matter how cheap you make a ticket a decent away day will cost between £50-£100. Please compare that cost to a lie in and half a dozen pints in the pub. Also now that Sat TV provides full match coverage anybody walking into a pub late on Sat after the usual nightmare journey home was once treated like an all conquering hero but now is frequently the object of derision and accused of being insane.

Oh and it's not like we win many either.

[SuperStella]

When we beat Man Utd 1-0 (stead) 29,800 odd were on, the price aren't that different from then are they??

Where have 5,000 people gone? Stuck in Amsterdam??

[stuwilky]

When we beat Man Utd 1-0 (stead) 29,800 odd were on, the price aren't that different from then are they??

Where have 5,000 people gone? Stuck in Amsterdam??

They were watching it on Eurosport.

[SuperStella]

HAHAHAHAHAHA

Damn Eurosport again

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

[MCMC1875]

Quality....

.......and it brought back lots of memories.

It is a comparison of two different games. Thank Christ I experienced 40 games a season of the first, Selhurst, Barnsley, Shrewsbury, Sunderland, Carlisle, Oxford, Wrexham, Preston, Bury and the rest.....

.....and thank Christ I realised the second wasn't value for money, COMS, OT, Spurs, Newcastle and the rest.

The Prime Minister in the 80's played a big part in the loss of this century of working class heritage.

For those on this board too young to have experienced the 'first' type of game, its indescribable, that's all.

Edited December 6, 2006 by MCMC1875

[Tris]

From the very little I've heard of it the BT Vision proposal sounds excellent, not just for football but generasl access to a whole range of products via broadband. It's already got me seriously thinking about what equipment I shall need to take advantage of the service, something I would never consider with Sky.

Paul - you can't accuse Sky of killing the game (further up the thread and on many previous occasions) and then pretend that Setanta aren't part of the same problem!!

In fact, as the rights Setanta won are for live games at 5.15pm on Saturday and 8pm on Monday - the two slots most disliked by fans who attend matches - by this time next year the name Setanta will be dirt.

BT Vision is merely another platform to access Setanta's 46 games to complement satellite and cable - and to ensure the subscription cash keeps rolling in. So they can bid for more live games next time around.

Edited December 6, 2006 by Tris

[Paul]

I can because my interest in BT Vision is not football. This season I've watched the Feyenoord game and nothing else on TV, not even MOTD. I rarely listen to football on the radio, the sports section of the Sunday paper usually stays folded and pristine before recycling. I have been 100% turned away from football through its over-exposure, my only interest is to watch Blackburn Rovers live. Broadcast football, like live news broadcast be it TV or radio, suffers from one crucial problem ~ there just isn't enough interesting content to go round. Consequently the same topic is shoved at us 24/7, by third rate journalists, to the point where it is switch off time. I used to be a big Radio 4 fan, I switched to Five Live for many years, I'm back on R4 these days because it is a station with quality programming. Five Live is really just a tabloid on speed.

I've only a smattering of info on BT Vision but it sounds like the service I want; TV on demand, videos or whatever. I refuse to pay for Sky, putting the political considerations aside, because it has no quality content, other than sport. Very occassionally I might see a film I'd like to watch in the listings, but that's all. When was the last time you heard people discussing the TV they viewed on Sky? For me it's never. I love my digi box because it occassionaly lets me watch quality TV at a time convenient to me, I hope BT will give me this selectivity. The days of the box in the corner determining what we watch are rapidly disappearing.

Currently the only download available to me on demand is Roversworld. Regretably the received quality is so poor, for reasons far beyond my comprehension, that this service isn't worth paying for. If BT are smart they will have realised the major benfit of digital broadcasting is in allowing the customer to chose.

As for broadcast football, I'm just not interested and long for the days when there was real anticipation for MOTD or the arrival of the Sunday paper. I no longer maintain Sky is killing our game, I now say Sky, in tandem with the PL and FA, has killed our game. Football will never again raise the passions it once did in millions. Beyond Blackburn Rovers I have lost all interest through the massive over hyped media exposure ~ more really is less.

I took an old friend to the Utd game. Afterwards he told me he'd forgotten how different and how much better live football is. It was his first live game in years.

In fact, as the rights Setanta won are for live games at 5.15pm on Saturday

Personally I like 5.15pm KOs, leave the whole day free for other things. Terrible for the away support I know, but I like the 5.15pm home games.

[philipl]

Whilst we are on the alienation theme...

I am glad I experienced the old days but equally glad the bad aspects are long since gone.

[Modi]

Personally I like 5.15pm KOs, leave the whole day free for other things. Terrible for the away support I know, but I like the 5.15pm home games.

It's terrible for anyone who lives outside of the immediate area.

For example, I live approx 50 miles away and here is a typical 1715 ko:

Can't do anything in the morning in case it overruns and creates problems travelling to Chorley/Ewood. Afternoon wasted as travel time +/or waiting to go to the match. Evenings a wash out due to not getting home until well past 2100, and still have to eat.

[bubblerrovers]

People have got to stop making excuses, It's clear lowering the price for random matches will make no difference in the long rin. I think it's just a total lack of interest, people want to see big players and good football. We can't expect one decent season then sell outs every week. Granted ocasionaly we play half decent football, but the ammount of times i've brought friends to a match and we've lost and looked pathetic. The atmosphere is a joke, with away fans singing more songs about our players and manager than we do. I'm not wanting to upset anyone, i want things to improve as much as anyone but it's not getting any better. It's alot easier to buy your kid an xbox360 than a season ticket at rovers.

[sleepyjack]

It's alot easier to buy your kid an xbox360 than a season ticket at rovers.

At amazon.co.uk it would cost £275 quid for an X-box 360 and £40 for one game.

An adult and a junior half season ticket comes as cheap as £194.

Hell, why not get two?

[cletus]

My thoughts exactly. Top top film. Youtube at it`s best.