[Archived] The Old Gate Debate

[Hasta]

What I think it proves is John Williams oft repeated point that success on the pitch is the simplest way to improve attendances. Liverpool, Utd are going to be 29 - 30,000 attendances it's the others we need ot improve.

That's possibly the only way short term. Good recent form against a 'big' club brings out the fans. It's true we did probably only get about 3,500 more home fans last night than for the other games but the 3500 turned up because of the opposition and the attractiveness of the fixture, not because of any price reduction.

I know I'm stating the obvious here but Fulham, Reading and Birmingham don't have the same pull. They aren't attractve games to the Blackburn public as Liverpool or Man U whatever the price structure we put on them games.

I believe that the attendances this season would only have been down by about 1500 had we kept last years price structure. A 7.5% attendance increase for a 30% price reduction is not the effect Rovers wanted.

In summary- the Premier League product in general does not attract the casual supporter of Blackburn.

Edited November 4, 2007 by Hasta

[FourLaneBlue]

That's possibly the only way short term. Good recent form against a 'big' club brings out the fans. It's true we did probably only get about 3,500 more home fans last night than for the other games but the 3500 turned up because of the opposition and the attractiveness of the fixture, not because of any price reduction.

Yes but why are the regular Rovers fans turning up more than in the previous few seasons? The price reduction helped to boost the season ticket numbers which are vital.

As a short-term financial measure it probably isn't wise to have dropped the prices as Rovers did but as a long-term plan it makes sense if they can stop fans giving up season tickets and entice a few back. I'd expect it's much easier to lose a fan than it is to get them back.

Regardless...Rovers couldn't go on hemorrhaging support like we were in the last days of Souness and which continued under Hughes despite a much improved side.

[philipl]

It isn't ideal but I read on here that effectively the Board calculated they were investing about £1m in net loss in gate income in the 25% price reductions.

When you think that gates felll from an average of over 26,000 to 21,000 in three years in the Premiership the Board might well have concluded if that trend continued they were going to lose the £1m anyway.

I agree with Hasta to an extent in that there seems to be a ceiling to the numbers of home supporters Rovers can attract and that there is a limited price elasticity of demand.

However, the 25% reduction seems to be beating the targets set for it of increasing numbers by 10%.

Season ticket sales for all of last year (including half season-tickets) were around 12,000 and the club will launch its half-season ticket sale with almost 15,000 full season tickets already sold. The attendance against Liverpool yesterday showed that the ST holders are turning up- Rovers' attendance numbers are actually bodies through the turnstiles, not number of tickets sold I believe.

Then attendances before yesterday were up by around 2,000 on average matching to the corresponding fixture last year. Bad attendances against "unattractive" opposition are now 19,000+ whereas previously they were 17,000 which is a good sign that the underlying platform of support has increased by more than 10%.

Of course Rovers have launched what promises to be one of the most exciting seasons in years so the price impact might not be the only cause.

Perhaps worth comparing with Bradford who slashed prices. Despite being in danger of relegation from the football league (when they had high hopes of promotion), over 13,000 turned up yesterday to see the 2-1 home defeat to Brentford in a division which looks like it could be suffering a big decline in attendances otherwise this season.

[Fife Rover]

That's possibly the only way short term. Good recent form against a 'big' club brings out the fans. It's true we did probably only get about 3,500 more home fans last night than for the other games but the 3500 turned up because of the opposition and the attractiveness of the fixture, not because of any price reduction.

I know I'm stating the obvious here but Fulham, Reading and Birmingham don't have the same pull. They aren't attractve games to the Blackburn public as Liverpool or Man U whatever the price structure we put on them games.

I believe that the attendances this season would only have been down by about 1500 had we kept last years price structure. A 7.5% attendance increase for a 30% price reduction is not the effect Rovers wanted.

In summary- the Premier League product in general does not attract the casual supporter of Blackburn.

Whatever happened to the days when for the whole week at work you could only think and talk about one thing: Rovers?

There was only one place to be on Saturday afternoons: Ewood Park or alternate weeks :Deepdale.

The entertainment we got then for about the same price as a pint of mild! Unbelievable now, but for me and many thousands now lost to the game, a very cherished memory. You never know; those days may come back when the bubble bursts for the get rich quick brigade and the TV finds other things to exploit.

[BRFC4EVA]

Another important thing to remember is that we havent (bar City) played games against opposition where the £20 Cat B tickets will show the most impact. Games which in the past would have been maybe Cat A or A+, Sunderland, wigan, bolton, man city, newcastle, everton etc and attracted some dismal crowds last year should see a significant increase. For example 18,500 vs City last yr, almost 27k this year. Again, newcastle in dec, last yr was 19k i think, this yr should be around the 25k. This is where we will make up the most in fans (a good % admitadly away fans), whereas unfortuantly i think we could have free entry and not fill out reading/fulham type games

[krislu]

Anyone know our average gates this season? Can we hope for 23-24 in May?

[Paul]

Starting with the Villa we have five home games in 25 days, all against PL opposition - 4 PL games and one Carling Cup. I'd guess the Arsenal game will be priced around £10 - £15 and of the PL games only Chelsea will be top whack. Could be a good test of the ticketing policy. Reasonable prices against attractive opposition in WHU, Newcastle and Villa plus a very big match against Chelsea, if we can keep winning I'd hope we get very good gates for these matches.

Just realised from Villa to City we have six games in 27 days to attend. Hmmm probably btime to be very helpful at home for a couple of weeks!

[philipl]

After the Liverpool game, Rovers attendance up to 23,346 on average. That lifts us to 15th in the average attendance list and away from bottom of the %age of the ground filled list.

This graph helps put it in context. 2006/7 saw a 100 improvement on 2005/6 so virtually unchanged so 2007/8 looks like it could show a big leap although I do think the lack of Bank Holiday games bacause of TV schedules will hurt us somewhat.

[ihateburnley]

Perhaps worth comparing with Bradford who slashed prices. Despite being in danger of relegation from the football league (when they had high hopes of promotion), over 13,000 turned up yesterday to see the 2-1 home defeat to Brentford in a division which looks like it could be suffering a big decline in attendances otherwise this season.

I'm sure I've read that Bradford have 12000 season-ticket holders so maybe that puts it slightly into perspective. I believe they massively reduced their season-ticket prices and with hopes of a successful season - many took advantage of this offer. I'd probably say that we have similar support as Bradford City actually. Bradford's a bigger place with more people but many people in the surrounding areas support Leeds and in that respect face similar issues as us with Liverpool and Man United.

---

It's also worth noting that I believe there were many that went to the game yesterday as neutrals or Liverpool supporters sat in the home areas. I know you always get this with the 'bigger' clubs, but I personally know seven people that sat in the Blackburn End and six of them were supporting Liverpool. Now I'm not for a moment suggesting that lowering the ticket prices has not affected the attendances in a positive way, but maybe we should look behind the figures and take a realistic view on them.

I have only been on the City game this season due to work commitments but I believe Ewood has been rocking this season. Maybe the club should try to do a little work in the local (but more importantly the national) press to emphasise the real value for money to be had at Ewood - an excellent (potentially top4) team AND a cracking atmosphere for the CHEAPEST in the country!

Incidentally I think the atmosphere at Ewood is underrated when compared to other grounds in the Premiership.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

For the Lpool and MU fans who are not ST holders Blackburn allowing them the entire Darwen End just 30 miles away must represent their favourite awayday fixture of the season.

I would hazard a guess Theno that they easily sell out their allocations to season ticket holders only before their non-season ticket holders even get a sniff of a chance!

Many have mentioned that some Rovers 'supporters' only turn up because of the opposition.....why are we unable to turn these fairweathers (3-4,000) into loyal and commited fans who will attend EVERY home game at Ewood to watch an attractive Blackburn side regardless of whom we are playing.?

Edited November 4, 2007 by SIMON GARNERS 194

[philipl]

I would hazard a guess Theno that they easily sell out their allocations to season ticket holders only before their non-season ticket holders even get a sniff of a chance!

Many have mentioned that some Rovers 'supporters' only turn up because of the opposition.....why are we unable to turn these fairweathers (3-4,000) into loyal and commited fans who will attend EVERY home game at Ewood to watch an attractive Blackburn side regardless of whom we are playing.?

With the average up 3,000 on last season, at least 2,000 more people are turning up at Ewood to watch the less fancied teams compared with last season.

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Lets hope that continues Philip so we see every one of the 22,500? home seats filled for every game....with the football we are playing and the ticket prices is that asking too much

A good uptake in half season tickets will do nicely please!

[ihateburnley]

Does anyone think putting 'corners' between the BBE and the Riverside, and the BBE and the JW would make any difference to the atmosphere created? Maybe just single tier corners could link our more vociferous support in the BBE to the wannabes in the Riverside, and maybe spur a bit of life into the 'rug and flaskers' in the JW?

Would also make the away end sit on it's own.

[philipl]

Why would we want a load of view blocked seatsa when we already cannot sell seats with perfectly good vision?

Ewood was designed the way it is to allow the air to circulate around the pitch.

I think home plus corporate seats total to almost 24,000.

But if we fill those, the club can start chucking visiting support out of the Darwen End - we are way over the minimum allocation required.

[RevidgeBlue]

Cracking 30,000+ crowd and atmosphere last night.

Strange though that the first game that sees us sell out at home is one of the games that still costs £30 to watch. More evidence that reduced ticket prices aren't making that much difference?

Probably been said already but I completely disagree with that Hasta, there seems to be an increase of around 2500 home fans this season for the lower profile games, which is undoubtedly attributable to the new pricing initiatives.

There were also another 2500 - 3000 fans on top of that in home areas yesterday producing the first 30000 gate for nearly five years.

That must say something and again has to be attributable to the price reductions (tickets available from 25 quid as opposed to 36 quid in recent seasons) combined with our great recent form.

Edited November 4, 2007 by RevidgeBlue

[Hasta]

Probably been said already but I completely disagree with that Hasta, there seems to be an increase of around 2500 home fans this season for the lower profile games, which is undoubtedly attributable to the new pricing initiatives.

There were also another 2500 - 3000 fans on top of that in home areas yesterday producing the first 30000 gate for nearly five years.

That must say something and again has to be attributable to the price reductions (tickets available from 25 quid as opposed to 36 quid in recent seasons) combined with our great recent form.

I knew I was putting myself up to be shot at but I still stand by it. I reckon had it been the same price structure as last year we'd probably be nearly at 30,000 anyway for the Liverpool game. Apart from the City game which was boosted by a large away following the other attendances must be viewed as disappointing considering the price structure. As many people have said, if we charge £10 per ticket I still reckon the attendances against the likes of Fulham and reading would hardly increase.

I'm not moaning about it. I'm happy they've done it and I'm only paying £299 for my season ticket. I believe that we only have around 19,000 home fans. I also believe that figure is good considering who and where we are. JW and the board often tell us they want to fill Ewood every week. This price drop was the one thing they could hope would help to achieve this. It's not going to happen. I believe the affect it has had so far will be disappointing for the board. The only hope now is that recognition and a glimmer of top 4 success will improve matters.

(what also won't help is the 18 live games we've got on Sky from December onwards !!)

[Plastic Head]

In 1979 it was £1.10 to get into the Blackburn End.

A pint of bitter was about 40p.

Therefore as a pint is now about £2 it should be no more than £6 to get in the Rovers. But Mars Bars should be 90p.

[Plastic Head]

Yes.

I am drunk.

[cletus]

Maybe just single tier corners could link our more vociferous support in the BBE to the wannabes in the Riverside,

????Wannabes???? i`m sorry sir, but apart from the top upper left of the BBE, the rest of the BBE is morgue-like. At least in my part of the Riverside, we can see the opposing fan`s faces & we give it to them all the way through the game BIG time! You should give it a go before you knock it pal!

[Plastic Head]

????Wannabes???? i`m sorry sir, but apart from the top upper left of the BBE, the rest of the BBE is morgue-like. At least in my part of the Riverside, we can see the opposing fan`s faces & we give it to them all the way through the game BIG time! You should give it a go before you knock it pal!

Correct. I regularly go for a Gypsy's at HT just to get some taunting in.

[Paul]

Does anyone think putting 'corners' between the BBE and the Riverside, and the BBE and the JW would make any difference to the atmosphere created?

It would simply give us more empty seats and a crap pitch. The way Ewood has been built contributes enormously to the pitch quality and to block the corners would be foolish. Would give us all something to moan about though

[waggy]

with premeir league clubs getting £40 million plus a season,ticket pricing is not relavant,greedy clubs and those that sell out everyweek charge silly prices,clubs like rovers use the massive amount off tv money to subsidise a over priced product

[Sandiway Blue]

with premeir league clubs getting £40 million plus a season,ticket pricing is not relavant,greedy clubs and those that sell out everyweek charge silly prices,clubs like rovers use the massive amount off tv money to subsidise a over priced product

Here we go again.....

Our attendance figures are as good as we can expect for Rovers.

I think it is all about changing lifestyles.These days we have more options of entertainment than we have ever had,and whereas 20 years ago watching football was top of the list of things we most wanted to do,these days it is down the pecking order in so much as priority.

I am sure there are many more supporters,who as much as they love Rovers,work on a matchday,as this country becomes more of a 24 hours a day,7 days a week society.

Also how many people are disillusioned with the salaries paid to football players?and have the mentality of "why should i work hard all week to pay £30,000 plus a week to these overpaid prima donnas" (i`m sure we have all heard it off somebody we know!)

There are many other factors as to why people `fall out of love` with footy and these are only a few of the examples.

But the fact is i think our gates are as good as we are going to get,all we can do is try to persuade people who don`t go,to come and have a look at us,and hopefully regain some of their passion for the game.

[thenodrog]

Has anybody considered the possibility of actually allowing the opposition fans some seats in the JW upper for really big games? A couple of thousand 'selected' (e.g. 100 club equivalents) away supporters witha few stewards in attendance would do no harm would it as long as revenue is maximised? Might provide some justification for doing up the Riverside.

Edited November 5, 2007 by thenodrog

[Guest fernhurstblue]

Has anybody considered the possibility of actually allowing the opposition fans some seats in the JW upper for really big games? A couple of thousand 'selected' (e.g. 100 club equivalents) away supporters witha few stewards in attendance would do no harm would it as long as revenue is maximised? Might provide some justification for doing up the Riverside.

.....i give up