[Archived] Drugs

[Billy Castell]

I can't think when that dusty crap hole had a great civilisation. It may have been part of the Persian empire and Alex the great's empire, but it was either a route to India or some desolate corner that just got taken. I also don't know of any solid, coheirent state that covers Afghanistan in any way. As far as I have read, its always been bandit country. There are parts of this world that totally lack resources, charm and are too hostile to live in, n a settled way. Such awful, wild places can breed awful, wild people who have nothing but a desire to live a brutish, hard and violent life. It's like the wild west before the USA matured into the state we now know it as.

I'd be all for leaving the place, if it wasn't for the fact its a training ground for Islamic nutters who can come back here and bomb us, and the drugs that fuels this episode. I'd also include Pakistan as part of this 'uncivilised' armpit of Asia.

[colin]

errr- The Taliban are from Pakistan

I don't recollect that I said that they were from anywhere else. Now where's that roll eyes thing that seems to be mandatory?

Got it

[colin]

The main reason why Afghanistan is a messed up nation is that it's unbending culture/religion is stuck in the dark ages .

Well you've got No 1 right. According to the United nations the 25 poorest countries in the world are as follows:

1 Afghanistan

2 Angola

3 Bangladesh

4 Benin

5 Bhutan

6 Burkina Faso

7 Burundi

8 Cambodia

9 Cape Verde

10 Central African Republic

11 Chad

12 Comoros

13 Democratic Republic of the Congo

14 Djibouti

15 Equatorial Guinea

16 Eritrea

17 Ethiopia

18 Gambia

19 Guinea

20 Guinea-Bissau

21 Haiti

22 Kiribati

23 Lao People’s Democratic Republic

24 Lesotho

25 Liberia

Care to assign an "unbending culture/religion" to each of these and see what pops up at the end?

Let us know if you find anything. I'd be interested.

Cheers

[philipl]

The arguments for de-criminalising drugs gains ground continually.

160 million people use cannabis. Where are we going to build a prison to house that lot?

The failed state/terrorist funding argument is actually one of the strongest for ending prohibition. If the allied forces were able to take control of the legitimate poppy production in Afghanistan you'd rip away the funding and attraction of the war lordism which is allowing the Taliban to flourish. Ditto in Colombia where that beautiful country and its wonderful people are cursed by the ideal conditions for growing the wrong plants.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Well you've got No 1 right. According to the United nations the 25 poorest countries in the world are as follows:

1 Afghanistan

2 Angola

3 Bangladesh

4 Benin

5 Bhutan

6 Burkina Faso

7 Burundi

8 Cambodia

9 Cape Verde

10 Central African Republic

11 Chad

12 Comoros

13 Democratic Republic of the Congo

14 Djibouti

15 Equatorial Guinea

16 Eritrea

17 Ethiopia

18 Gambia

19 Guinea

20 Guinea-Bissau

21 Haiti

22 Kiribati

23 Lao People’s Democratic Republic

24 Lesotho

25 Liberia

Care to assign an "unbending culture/religion" to each of these and see what pops up at the end?

Let us know if you find anything. I'd be interested.

Cheers

Strange that Colin, but every source I have read claims that Afghanistan; whilst very poor is no where near as poor as you suggest. Infact that there are around a dozen nations in Africa whose GDP per capita is far lower than that of Afghanistan’s

It also has economic growth of over 12% (some of which can be apportioned to the record poppy crop & International aid)

Sources

Afghanistan Economic overview

List of countries by GDP (PPP) per capita

I would check the date & validity of your sources Colin. BTW what is your point is it just dogmatism for the sake of it?

[colin]

Strange that Colin, but every source I have read claims that Afghanistan; whilst very poor is no where near as poor as you suggest.

Hang on a moment. I was just suggesting to Blue Phil that perhaps the poverty of Afganistan was not related to the religion of its people. I just quoted UN figures about poverty. Maybe you need to discuss this with Blue Phil. I'm quite happy to sit out until you reach an agreed stance.

Please feel free and enter the debate. Is Afganistan the poorest county on earth because of its religion as Blue Phil suggests? Or are there other factors at work. Certainly The United Arab Emirates & Saudi Arabia & The Gulf States seem to be doing Ok for themselves despite whatever god they beleive in.

Cheers

Edited October 3, 2008 by colin

[colin]

I've just typed in "Saudia Arabi" and it's underlined to a link to a book. Is this my problem?

Edited October 3, 2008 by colin

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Hang on a moment. I was just suggesting to Blue Phil that perhaps the poverty of Afganistan was not related to the religion of its people. I just quoted UN

Please feel free and enter the debate. Is Afganistan the poorest county on earth because of its religion as Blue Phil suggests? Or are there other factors at work. Certainly The United Arab Emirates & Saudi Arabia & The Gulf States seem to be doing Ok for themselves despite whatever god they beleive in.

No Colin you have implied that Afghanistan is the poorest nation in the World- It clearly isn’t. Furthermore, you are also implying that conditions in the country are both economically & socially worse since the coalition invasion- again this is in incorrect.

Under the Taliban -Afghanistan was the poorest nation on the planet- due to the medievalist, monolithic Islamist vision that the Taliban forced on the populace.

Today conditions are horrific in a Helmand and Kandahar provinces due to foreign Jihadist’s trying to overthrow the current regime and expel the NATO & UN forces from the region. Yet the rest of the country is free from foreign Jihadist’s and economically better off than it has been for decades.

I just love the examples you have given – Between they sit on over half the worlds Oil & natural gas reserves; coupled with the fact they have low population distributions & low density- they should be economically well off . Saudi-Arabia may have a large GNP – but three-quarters of the population live in abject poverty, with the House of Saud accounting for over 20% of that nations wealth.

It is also quite possibly the most intolerant society in the World

[colin]

Bazza,

I'm not quite sure where you get your skills on carrying out a rational discussion from, but you do seem to be wandering far and wide.

On 27th September Blue Phil posted:

The main reason why Afghanistan is a messed up nation is that it's unbending culture/religion is stuck in the dark ages .

If no other nation intefered in its affairs ever again it would still remain amongst the most poorest nations on Earth . Backward culture = backward people = backward nation .

My reply was that the list of the poorest countries did not have a religious connection

United Nations list of least developed countries

and I invited him to co-ordinate religion & poverty from that list.

You said

No Colin you have implied that Afghanistan is the poorest nation in the World- It clearly isn’t.

No Bazza, I didn't imply it. I quoted from the link from the United Nations. (see above.)

Furthermore, you are also implying that conditions in the country are both economically & socially worse since the coalition invasion

I didn't imply any such thing.

I just love the examples you have given – Between they sit on over half the worlds Oil & natural gas reserves; coupled with the fact they have low population distributions & low density- they should be economically well off

Thank you. You have just proved the point that Afghanistan is not the poorest nation in the world because of it's religion, as Blue Phil said. Saudi Arabia et al are stinking rich. Their religion has nothing to do with it.

But when it comes to Afghanistan their poverty has apparantly got everything to do with religion.

Do try and form a cogent arguement.

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Bazza,

I'm not quite sure where you get your skills on carrying out a rational discussion from, but you do seem to be wandering far and wide.

On 27th September Blue Phil posted:

My reply was that the list of the poorest countries did not have a religious connection

United Nations list of least developed countries

and I invited him to co-ordinate religion & poverty from that list.

You said

No Bazza, I didn't imply it. I quoted from the link from the United Nations. (see above.)

I didn't imply any such thing.

Thank you. You have just proved the point that Afghanistan is not the poorest nation in the world because of it's religion, as Blue Phil said. Saudi Arabia et al are stinking rich. Their religion has nothing to do with it.

But when it comes to Afghanistan their poverty has apparantly got everything to do with religion.

Do try and form a cogent arguement.

Colin you are either playing dumb or been dogmatic- I can’t work you out.

Under the Taliban literacy & Numeracy rates where amongst the lowest in the world- simply because there fundamentalist ideals didn’t allow education to girls after the age of about 14. Having one of the lowest skill bases in the world is hardly a good base to drive forward the economy is it (I won’t even mention quality of life – because the Taliban vision included the banning of music, television and even kites). Women were treated lower than animals in many cases.

A radical Islamist (Taliban) does not see a distinction between religion and politics – they are the same. Something we in the West with our secular mindset can’t get our heads around. I suspect that you are simply referring to religion within a western context where the church, politics (and everything else economy, society etc) is separate- this was not the case in Afghanistan. So to answer your question; religion had everything to do with the oppressive poverty stricken conditions that Afghanistan has suffered for the past couple of decades. Unfortunately, for Afghanistan it does not sit on half of the worlds oil to prop its economy up.

As for your other examples- They represent amongst the most unequal societies in the world. With 1% of the population been worth more than the rest combined. I reiterate the House of Saud is worth over 20% of its nations GNP- most of Saudi’s interior ( najd) live in absolute abject poverty, with the problem been that Women are treated as second class citizens.

[colin]

Bazza,

Thank you for your response.

You have taken my quick comment that "Afghanistan is not poor because of the religion of its people" and started yourself off on one.

It's all yours mate.

Edited October 5, 2008 by colin

[Bazzanotsogreat]

Bazza,

Thank you for your response.

You have taken my quick comment that "Afghanistan is not poor because of the religion of its people" and started yourself off on one.

It's all yours mate.

Cheers for the honesty.

At least you admit when you are wrong.

[philipl]

Cheers for the honesty.

At least you admit when you are wrong.

eh?

[colin]

Cheers for the honesty.

At least you admit when you are wrong.

"Eh?" again. This time from me.

Thank you Phillipl for pointing out the vacuous assumption.

[philipl]

Five year medical stidies into the harm done by all drugs. Alcohol and tobacco don't come out well. The should be Class B certified by my reckoning if you believe in prohibition which I don't.

[SouthAussieRover]

Five year medical stidies into the harm done by all drugs. Alcohol and tobacco don't come out well. The should be Class B certified by my reckoning if you believe in prohibition which I don't.

Which drugs are making you spell so poorly and also posting ad nauseum?

[philipl]

Little video clip currently on this page about legal substances for getting high.

Apart from alcohol, I don't partake in any drugs. Haven't been to a doctor for over ten years- bit apprehensive about having to go to see one next week.

Edited November 14, 2008 by philipl

[American]

Ask him to get the stick while he's in there doing the prostate exam!

[philipl]

Survey into UK drug taking and attitudes.

A quarter of the population has taken drugs yet only a tiny proportion of those have a drugs-related criminal record.

Average spend per head on drugs points to a billion pounds unregulated totally illegal industry.

Prohibition aint working. End of...

[dave birch]

Survey into UK drug taking and attitudes.

A quarter of the population has taken drugs yet only a tiny proportion of those have a drugs-related criminal record.

Average spend per head on drugs points to a billion pounds unregulated totally illegal industry.

Prohibition aint working. End of...

Philip, what's the cost to the community of stupid males not going to their doctor for ten years, and then being found with problems that could have been rectified in year one?

[gillibrand]

I thought doctors in the UK had very little time to spend on sick patients, never mind going to the doctor and saying I have not seen you for ten years, I can imagine the reply.

[philipl]

Philip, what's the cost to the community of stupid males not going to their doctor for ten years, and then being found with problems that could have been rectified in year one?

I am only going for an MoT test.

[Billy Castell]

With the way Rovers are playing, the local dealers must be making a booming business!

[colin]

some more to talk about

[Presty On Tour]

milkman