[Archived] Club Up For Sale?

[Ozz]

The article ends "It is a salutary story of a man using his riches most benevolently to fulfil his fantasy, but then the dream going sour."

Not really sour is it though?

Massively over-perfoming in the league at time of writing, two major trophys, regular European qualification, an academy that ranks with finest in Europe, a spanking ground, etc.....

So Jacks money is now all turning sour?

[Exiled_Rover]

Is anyone else imagining the Trustees in a Jedi Council...esque scenario? Twelve of so hooded blokes in a big boardroom somewhere in deepest darkest Jersey making decisions that decide the fate of the Gal....erm, Rovers.....anybody?

[den]

My thinking is this: These journos know as much as you or I as to the contents of the trust deed. I doubt that any of the trustees would have opened up to a journo.

387797[/snapback]

No, but someone inside the club might.

Den, if the deed says hang on to the club for at least 20 years, then that's what will happen. Having said that, there maybe a clause that says "sell if the club finishes in the top 5 ".

387797[/snapback]

Let's not forget that it's the trust making the decisions now, not Jack. If the deed contains absolute specifics about exactly what jack wanted, then fair enough, but I doubt that.

The trustees run rovers and they will do whatever is the best for ALL of Jack's businesses, not just one of them. I stand by what I said - the last thing the trust needs is a football club draining money from the trust.

[stuwilky]

I stand by what I said - the last thing the trust needs is a football club draining money from the trust.

387805[/snapback]

But what would Jack have put in the deed.

The trust are likely to have a huge windfall in the not too distant future with the likelihood of flybmi being sold off to the bighest bidder. Are they liquidating the assets?

[Billy Castell]

Good thing Vinjay hasn't seen this thread !

[Alan75]

No, but someone inside the club might.

387805[/snapback]

As I understand it, even people within the club can only speculate.

[Darth Paul]

Is anyone else imagining the Trustees in a Jedi Council...esque scenario? Twelve of so hooded blokes in a big boardroom somewhere in deepest darkest Jersey making decisions that decide the fate of the Gal....erm, Rovers.....anybody?

387804[/snapback]

Ah yes, the lesser known member of the family...Anakin Sky Walker

[dave birch]

No, but someone inside the club might.

Let's not forget that it's the trust making the decisions now, not Jack. If the deed contains absolute specifics about exactly what jack wanted, then fair enough, but I doubt that.

The trustees run rovers and they will do whatever is the best for ALL of Jack's businesses, not just one of them. I stand by what I said - the last thing the trust needs is a football club draining money from the trust.

387805[/snapback]

Den, the Trustees would have to abide by the what the deed says. If they stray too far, then they leave themselves open for criticism.

As a general rule, trust deeds like this will be water tight, very specific in what they do and don't do.

I doubt that putting say 5mill into the rovers over the past 10 years has made much of a dent in the capital of the trust. I don't know how many of you follow your super (pension schemes), but mine has rocketed over the past few years, and that's from the pittance I have in it. Now, imagine the leverage you would have with millions in it? If it hasn't doubled or thereabouts in the last four years or so, I would be surprised.

[DavidMailsTightPerm]

Is this not old news ?

Did John Williams not say a while ago that Rovers would welcome outside investment - as long as it was felt to be in the long term interests of the club ?

I am presuming that outside investment would probably include selling part or all of the Trust interest in the club.

The one thing that I always remember was following Jacks sad passing - the Rovers fans were assured by both John Williams and the Trust, that it had been set up by Jack to ensure the long term future of Blackburn Rovers. I am sure that the Trust will only sell on their interest if it is felt that an outside investor will provide more funds for the club than the trust can currently. Lets not forget (excluding debt right off) they put in approx £3-4m per season - for some Russian billionaire this isn't a huge amount (beyond the actual purchase price).

I wouldn't be surprised if this story has been "encouraged" - any outside investor is going to be more attracted to a club seeking a place in Europe rather than one fighting relelgation.

But ultimately (rightly or wrongly) I don't believe that Jack would set up a trust that in anyway would put at risk the club he loved. So I cling to the hope that whatever they do - will be in the long term interests of the club

[Alan75]

(pension schemes),

dave, not very good in this country. In fact the mention of pension schemes here is a very sore point for many.

[Exiled in Toronto]

I wouldn't be surprised if this story has been "encouraged" - any outside investor is going to be more attracted to a club seeking a place in Europe rather than one fighting relelgation.

387815[/snapback]

That was my thought. The journalist in question I don't think has a reputation for being a shyster; he has written for the Telegraph for many years on football financial matters. If he says the club is up for sale then most readers would assume that it is. And what sources in the club are there that are worth listening to other than the two in the corner office - or maybe there's a board member who has close links with the Family....?

Edited March 2, 2006 by Exiled in Toronto

[Exiled in Toronto]

The actions of the WT are not those of an owner preparing for sale.

387761[/snapback]

I agree with the capital investments - if they were that keen to sell then they should have been milking the business rather than putting in money they might not get back - why redo your kitchen if you will be selling the house soon - (or maybe Trust terms prevent that?)

And maybe I'm just being a bit thick, but doesn't converting debt into equity make things a bit easier to sell? If a loss-making business also has $14m debt on its books, surely that is less attractive to a buyer than one that just has more equity, all of which could be bought for, say, 1p?

[jim mk2]

Mihir Bose is a respected, experienced sports journalist and I would treat the story seriously. He has obviously had a tip from someone inside the club.

[USABlue]

Mihir Bose is a respected, experienced sports journalist and I would treat the story seriously. He has obviously had a tip from someone inside the club.

387824[/snapback]

Respected and Journalist in the same sentence, I'm having a hard time getting my head around that one. Obviously??? How so?

[OnePost]

"One of the problems is the number of Premiership clubs in the area. That corner of the country now has seven - Blackburn, Wigan, Bolton, Liverpool, Everton, Manchester United and Manchester City."

Let's have a look at the author of that statement, Mihir Bose. It would appear to me that he is an habitual sh!t-stirrer, the evidence suggests that Mr Bose just doesn't like the North-West football oligarchy.

In 2000 Mr. Bose had the following 320 page tome published:

"Manchester Unlimited: The Money, Egos And Infighting Behind The World's Richest Soccer Club"

Mr Bose is in the process of updating that work, which is scheduled to be republished in September 2006 as:

"Manchester United: And the Business of Soccer"

Evidence of an unhealthy obsession? Is he now turning his attentions to BRFC in the light of our recent successes? There's plenty of conjecture in this thread already that a hack journalist could weave into a work of fiction masquerading as fact.

Let's have a look at his modus operandi. In April 2004 Mihir Bose, The Telegraph's Sports News Correspondent, was deported from Zimbabwe after failing to turn up with the appropriate working visa to cover the controvial England cricket tour. His reasoning for the deportation was he was "singled out because he was British and Mugabe has a pathological hatred of the British"

Mr Bose also states "One of the excuses given for my deportation was that as a British journalist I might try to foment trouble." That would be fairly astute reasoning then.

(Just a reminder for the patriot Mihir Bose....................the North West of England is British too.)

Edited March 2, 2006 by OnePost

[Paul]

Is this not old news ?

Did John Williams not say a while ago that Rovers would welcome outside investment - as long as it was felt to be in the long term interests of the club ?

I am presuming that outside investment would probably include selling part or all of the Trust interest in the club.

The one thing that I always remember was following Jacks sad passing - the Rovers fans were assured by both John Williams and the Trust, that it had been set up by Jack to ensure the long term future of Blackburn Rovers.

387815[/snapback]

The first part is certainly true, I think it was in the LET and on the official site. I recall the second as well, though that can have all sorts of interpretations......e.g if someone offers to invets £100m in Rovers that would be for the club's long term good. ???

[American]

Ah yes, the lesser known member of the family...Anakin Sky Walker 

387813[/snapback]

[jim mk2]

"

Let's have a look at the author of that statement, Mihir Bose. It would appear to me that he is an habitual sh!t-stirrer, the evidence suggests that Mr Bose just doesn't like the North-West football oligarchy.

387836[/snapback]

I fail to understand how you reach the above conclusion based on a book about Manchester United and a story on the potential sale of Blackburn Rovers.

Another case of shooting the messenger.

[Parasyte]

It wouldnt suprise me if it were true - we all know that Jack and his families money wouldnt be pumped in forever. A part of me also thinks this is a good time to sell; with Abramovich and Gaydamak improving popularity of the EPL in Russia, and certainly raising English footballs already fairly lofty profile, interest in England is at some of its highest. Dont forget Villa were subject to about 3 different bids over the past couple of years, and rumours yesturday suggest that Sullivan is hoping to offload his share of Brum. A club sitting 5th with a combined total of many, many hundreds of international caps, with an already top quality set of facilities, could be a good proposition, even if the attendances arnt - the idea of new owners could coax back supporters with one signing alone, and I'm not talking Ronaldinho style signings.

However, a part of me thinks no-one wouldve said ANYTHING whatsoever to a reporter unless there was already one interested party (if its true, of course). I cant imagine all and sundry at the club would know if the trust wanted shot of Rovers, so if anyone could leak it, it sounds a little planned.

Still, I have the business and financial knowledge and logic that probably only applies to me, while all those who know what they are talking about are either screw-faced or laughing. But thats my 2 cents.

[Hughesy]

Its simple really - Uncle Jack wrote his deed and in that he wanted the Future of HIS club to be safe.

Im 100% sure that there will be a rule in there that states they have to give us x amount of pounds each year! Im sure they will probably never be able to get rid of that rule as that is what Uncle Jack wanted! Its his Money!

As for Investment - Rovers have been open to this for over a year now. They have stated before that they would look at any interest for investment.

[philipl]

Let's look at this a bit dispassionately.

Jack was a pretty straightforwards guy by all accounts- tough, good deal maker but not a duplicitous type.

He chose to plough 25% of his wealth into the Rovers and died at a time when the club were in the second division and far from assured of getting promoted.

I am sure his Will looked to Rovers' long and short term future.

Only Jack's testators will have any legitimate right to know the content of his Will.

Only the Trustees of the Jack Walker Trust have any legitimate right to know the contents of the Trust Deed

I am equally certain that the club does NOT know the contents of the Will nor the Trust Settlement.

The Trustees are legally obliged to operate the Trust according to the letter of the Trust Settlement so long as the requirements conform with law.

My guess is that we can simply interpolate from the actions of the Trustees in the five years since Jack's death many of the provisions of the Trust.

- the £3m donation a year is a known fact

- they can make loans at non-commercial rates of interest particularly if the club's status is under threat (Andy Cole)

- they can convert loans into share capital

- they are averaging advancing an additional £3m a year

After that it is speculation. But imagine you were Jack Walker- what would you do in your Will? In 100 years' time, the only thing which will keep the Jack Walker name in the forefront of people's attention would be Blackburn Rovers.

My guess is that there would be provision for additional loans for offensive as well as defensive reasons and that there will be a clause with extremely strict safeguards for selling an interest in the club.

I would also expect that the Trust will provide for a bail out from the club in the interests of the family but as the Trust was worth £680m at the last estimate, I doubt the family could plead in extremis even if they were so minded which it seems they certainly aren't.

Mihir Bohse is a respected journalist but he has some bloops in his career. One thing I am absolutely certain of is that given the extreme professionalism the Trust has conducted itself with thus far, I doubt it would communicate offering Rovers for sale through the medium of that miserable little article.

[Parasyte]

I'm sure Jack put his family above his club, so that rule about having to give x amount probably doesnt exist. Likewise, he wanted the club to eventually stand on its own two feet, not the trusts, so that would, to me, show that such clause doesnt exist, as much as I'd love it to.

[OnePost]

I fail to understand how you reach the above conclusion based on a book about Manchester United and a story on the potential sale of Blackburn Rovers.

387842[/snapback]

"Inference" and "conjecture", aren't those attributes a journalist's stock in trade Jim? Surely the connection isn't that opaque.

Another case of shooting the messenger.

387842[/snapback]

If only..........

Edited March 2, 2006 by OnePost

[thenodrog]

Probably a good time to sell. Crowds falling but 5th in the table so guaranteed Sky dosh for another couple of years.

from the Telegraph.......

"One of the problems is the number of Premiership clubs in the area. That corner of the country now has seven - Blackburn, Wigan, Bolton, Liverpool, Everton, Manchester United and Manchester City."

Now who would have thought there were too many clubs around us permanently limiting our income until some fall by the wayside or are merged? Silly stupid fool that journo eh? The man must be a complete nincompoop in facing up to the bare facts, truth, reallity and inevitability of the situation like that. He should have a spell on Fantasy Island (like most of our members and a certain member of our admin , must have every so often) to restore his blinkered vision and blind faith in fairy tales.

As it is the situation is black and white......if not enough Blackburn people want a top team badly enough there will not be one. Why do people expect the members of one wealthy family have to shoulder the burden? ......... Especially when most of em dislike footy intensely anyway.

[philipl]

But its almost not the family's decision...

Do we have to go round that loop again?