[Archived] Killing Us!

[AggyBlue]

Jack Walker alledgedly had a sign in his office whioch said 'Think Big'. I suggest that concept is totally beyond the comprehension of many of our contributers.

Funny you should say that.

I do 'think big' when reading some posts on this thread.

Big head or Big mouth, both seem to be attached to a little brain.

[RevidgeBlue]

Having said that, football games have always been good and bad, nothings changd there. When I was younger, every game was great. Maybe it's our attitude that's changed as we get older, rather than the game itself.

Exactly Den.

[RevidgeBlue]

The days you refer to as the "good old days" RB were in the 70's and yes they were OK, but even then the rot had well set in compared to the real "good old days" of the 40', 50's and 60's. I and a few others on here can remember them well, and sorry though I am to have to say it, but if you have not experienced these times you cannot begin to imagine what it was like then. The changes that came about in the 60's were so far reaching in every single aspect of life that there is NO WAY that you CAN compare the times prior to the times post 1960 ish. Obviously football is only a tiny part of that revolution, and it is the ONLY part that need concern us here. I am certainly not claiming that everything was better before the revolution but although people were poorer and working and living conditions generally worse for the majority I still feel that at that time the overall feel good factor was greater. Maybe we just expected less out of life in those days!

There is absolutely no doubt at all that professional football from the end of WW2 to the late 60's was undoubtedly better from an entertainment and value for money aspect. There was a seemingly endless stream of really talented and gifted British footballers from all the home countries who played not just for the handfull of "Big Clubs" that you have now. You found international players at every level of the game right down to the 3rd division, and they all got paid exactly the same wages regardless of club. Also this max wage was not a lot more than a skilled craftsman in industry got, so the ordinary man did not feel he was being taken for a mug, and the admission price was usually around the price of a pint of best ale. For this you got superb non-orchestrated football served up by naturally gifted and talented players who did not need to be told how to play or how to foul and cheat either.

Yes RB, those WERE the "good old days" and you youngsters simply have no reference point with which to compare them.

Hee hee, nice to be called a "youngster" these days Fife.

Great post, if you as someone who was there in the flesh were enthralled by footie in the 40's and 50's then good on you that's all that matters. As someone who didn't see it I tend to be sceptical when I see footage of say Sir Stan skipping past a tackle on the halfway line and being clear through on goal!

As for the sixties, well purely from a Rovers perspective, they were disastrous.

On the flip side we saw the worst aspect of the modern game in the Arsenal Champions League tie last night.

The Werder Bremen keeper makes a legitimate attempt to get the ball and Van Persie COULD have stayed on his feet and attempted to turn the ball in from a tight angle but in reality he'd pushed the ball that bit too far. So he deliberately left his trailing leg in there for the faintest of contact and just in case the ref was in any doubt twisted round violently sideways as if he'd been poleaxed.

To award a penalty was harsh in itself but he also managed to get the poor bloke send off thereby effectively ending the game as a spectacle and a contest.

Not good.

Edited September 14, 2006 by RevidgeBlue

[den]

While the Arsenal players were giving it the high fivesRev.

Wonderful eh?

[92er]

[quote name='RevidgeBlue' date='Sep 14 2006, 16:11 ' post='444

As for the sixties, well purely from a Rovers perspective, they were disastrous.

The removal of the maximum wage was a disaster for town clubs, including the Rovers and the relegation and what followed were also disasters. But there was some amazing football played at times, with some brilliant players.

[thenodrog]

As for the sixties, well purely from a Rovers perspective, they were disastrous.

Not good.

Don't think the 60's were too good for Bolton, Burnley, PNE or Blackpool either. All in Div 1 in 1964 all gone within 5 short years.

[Fife Rover]

Don't think the 60's were too good for Bolton, Burnley, PNE or Blackpool either. All in Div 1 in 1964 all gone within 5 short years.

Think about it Theno; when did the max wage get abolished? Took a few years for max effect but the big city clubs were always going to get all the best players from the time the max wage was abolished. None of the clubs you quoted or Rovers either could afford to compete with the city clubs on wages any more! Level playing field destroyed. Simple innit?

[92er]

It was abolished in 1961. Peter Dobing went to Man City as a result.

[philipl]

It was the 61/2 season where all the Lancashire United clubs crowded Div 1.

PNE dropped out never to be seen again then Notlob. Then Rovers celebrated the World Cup win in style. Bumley and Blackpool went down the same season Rovers and Wanderers went down (70/1- not a good year to be a B in Lancashire except Bury got promoted) and apart from a brief Bumley return and a Worthington inspired Notlob was good night until Uncle Jack followed Oldham into the promised land.

[RevidgeBlue]

Think about it Theno; when did the max wage get abolished? Took a few years for max effect but the big city clubs were always going to get all the best players from the time the max wage was abolished. None of the clubs you quoted or Rovers either could afford to compete with the city clubs on wages any more! Level playing field destroyed. Simple innit?

So from ourselves and Bolton's point of view it's a bloody good job Sky and the Premier League bung us nearly 30m p.a. isn't it?

We have to thank Uncle Jack for getting us there in the first place, but I have to repeat what I've said previously. We've never had it so good.

[thenodrog]

It was the 61/2 season where all the Lancashire United clubs crowded Div 1.

PNE dropped out never to be seen again then Notlob. Then Rovers celebrated the World Cup win in style. Bumley and Blackpool went down the same season Rovers and Wanderers went down (70/1- not a good year to be a B in Lancashire except Bury got promoted) and apart from a brief Bumley return and a Worthington inspired Notlob was good night until Uncle Jack followed Oldham into the promised land.

This was a Proper Prem League table! Based on merit rather than wealth.

http://www.krysstal.com/league1961.html

[abc]

This was a Proper Prem League table! Based on merit rather than wealth.

http://www.krysstal.com/league1961.html

Don't like that league table at all - Burnley are above us!

Much prefer these ones!!!

http://www.krysstal.com/league1914.html

http://www.krysstal.com/league1995.html

[Billinge End Blue]

FLB makes some very cogent points on this thread regarding attendance - don't know why he seems to receive such flak...

It was £13 to get a Riverside ticket for a 5 year old's third Ewood trip today (previously carried over the turnstiles)

Great win though and nice one, Gally

[Jimbo]

I have two tickets for Evita - 4th Oct - 15 quid each - that's a west end show, not that I'm going to it, I'll leave that for the missus & her sister

[SIMON GARNERS 194]

Look at todays gate for a North west derby...Its certainly more than just tv thats killing our crowds!!

[roversWASmylife]

I didn't go today.

Saw the second half on dodgy tele, even so I wouldn't be able to afford £32 for BBE where my mates are. Saying that I think I might go to Wigan in outer section of Riverside.

[philipl]

I'm not suggesting any of this is easy for Rovers but some steps could help...

1. Get Kids in, for every match, for a small fee. If it means losing some revenue then so be it as it can't really be that much in the scheme of things.

2. Some kind of more flexible half-season ticket to be looked at to help the problem that many people now have attending games. Not only with all the moved games but also with the rise of shift work that seems to have occured over the few years.

3. Tell the local pubs that they are only interested in chasing up landlords that broadcast the Ewood matches on foreign TV, as that is their sphere of interest. Away games aren't how they make money. Sure it may seem they can't do that but who cares? Money talks. It's in the landlords interest for Rovers to do well as that will get people in for the away games they show.

4. If the game is going to be designated as an A+ then make sure it is worth it. Chelsea at home on a Sunday when Rovers are already receiving extra Sky money isn't. Regardless if you can get into another part of the ground for £27 or not, if fans are used to sitting in the BBE or JW Upper or wherever they will probably wish to sit there again. Their friends might be there, whatever. They may well resent being priced out of their old seats, especially if they have had to give up season tickets because the demands of TV meant they can't attend more and more of the games.

Do I think Rovers have looked into all of these and I'm saying nothing new? Absolutely. Yet they need to keep doing it. Thousands have left while we are a Premiership side - it is making it more and more difficult to compete.

Just edited it to get rid of the first few paragraphs of point scoring against other posters.

I agree- all four points are worthy of taking forwards although quite how you would handle policing the illegal and not so damaging to Rovers coverage of away games compared with the illegal and very damaging to Rovers home games in pubs is an interesting one.

[thenodrog]

I agree- all four points are worthy of taking forwards although quite how you would handle policing the illegal and not so damaging to Rovers coverage of away games compared with the illegal and very damaging to Rovers home games in pubs is an interesting one.

In this instance and if the match was on foreign TV the huge gaps in the away crowd certainly suggest that the screening of away games is just as damaging to BRFC.

btw this and the old gate debate appear to be covering very similar ground.

Edited September 18, 2006 by thenodrog

[Hughesy]

I think our pricing structure should be changed.

It should be set out different like below:

Cat A = Teams that finished in top 6 last season (Or 7 if you were one of them)

Cat B = Teams 7 – 14th from last season

Cat C = 15th – 17th from last season + 3 new clubs.

Pricing should be the same all over the ground.

Adults

A+ = £25 (6 games = £150)

A = £22 (7 games = £154 based on us finishing 6th)

B = £17.50 (6 games = £105)

So total cost would be £409

Season ticket price set at £370 – Saving of a price of 1 Cat B game and 1 Cat A game. Aswell as 1 first cup match free in league cup.

Kids prices should be 1st child ST = £70

If you purchase a 2nd child ST it should be a reduced rate = £60

3rd child £50 …… 4th child £40 and so on.

Therefore for 1 adult & 2 kids it would cost you £500 a season.

So based on the above prices Bolton Tickets would cost £22, City Tickets would of cost £17.50 – Now tell me we would of only had 18,000 on at that price. Not a chance. City would of sold there 8000 and we would of sold so more tickets.

[Athlete]

I think our pricing structure should be changed.

It should be set out different like below:

Cat A = Teams that finished in top 6 last season (Or 7 if you were one of them)

Cat B = Teams 7 – 14th from last season

Cat C = 15th – 17th from last season + 3 new clubs.

Pricing should be the same all over the ground.

Adults

A+ = £25 (6 games = £150)

A = £22 (7 games = £154 based on us finishing 6th)

B = £17.50 (6 games = £105)

So total cost would be £409

Season ticket price set at £370 – Saving of a price of 1 Cat B game and 1 Cat A game. Aswell as 1 first cup match free in league cup.

Kids prices should be 1st child ST = £70

If you purchase a 2nd child ST it should be a reduced rate = £60

3rd child £50 …… 4th child £40 and so on.

Therefore for 1 adult & 2 kids it would cost you £500 a season.

So based on the above prices Bolton Tickets would cost £22, City Tickets would of cost £17.50 – Now tell me we would of only had 18,000 on at that price. Not a chance. City would of sold there 8000 and we would of sold so more tickets.

1 of the best posts regarding ticket prices - totally reasonable pricing stucture !

[den]

I think our pricing structure should be changed.

It should be set out different like below:

Cat A = Teams that finished in top 6 last season (Or 7 if you were one of them)

Cat B = Teams 7 – 14th from last season

Cat C = 15th – 17th from last season + 3 new clubs.

Pricing should be the same all over the ground.

Adults

A+ = £25 (6 games = £150)

A = £22 (7 games = £154 based on us finishing 6th)

B = £17.50 (6 games = £105)

So total cost would be £409

Season ticket price set at £370 – Saving of a price of 1 Cat B game and 1 Cat A game. Aswell as 1 first cup match free in league cup.

Kids prices should be 1st child ST = £70

If you purchase a 2nd child ST it should be a reduced rate = £60

3rd child £50 …… 4th child £40 and so on.

Therefore for 1 adult & 2 kids it would cost you £500 a season.

So based on the above prices Bolton Tickets would cost £22, City Tickets would of cost £17.50 – Now tell me we would of only had 18,000 on at that price. Not a chance. City would of sold there 8000 and we would of sold so more tickets.

It's OK picking prices out of the air, so now you can tell us what the effect on the clubs income over a season would be and how we make up the shortfall?

Plus your evidence that dropping prices will actually bring back lapsed fans?

[American]

Plus with that little of a difference, a lot of season ticket holders would leave, say they were going to just buy the matches they were going to be available for and end up going to about 5 - and to the pub for the rest.

[Hughesy]

Ok prices based on adults –

Say we have 15,000 season ticket holders

For the City game we then had

15,000 ST holders + 3,403 (city + few extra) = 18,403 so extra was 3,403 @ £28 (rough ave price) = £95,284

Now even if the new price (£17.50) only attracted an extra 2,100 onto what was there on Sunday it would make the attendance 20,503 and be worth an extra £96,250 on top of season ticket sales. Making a total of £1,034 extra in ticket sales alone to what was there. On top of that you have an extra 2100 people at the ground to purchase pies, hotdogs, alcohol & maybe club merchandise like programmes and kits.

It also should create a better atmosphere and therefore entice more people to come back to ewood.

Personally if the tickets were £17.50 for adults I think City would of sold out there 8000.

[Biddy]

Ok prices based on adults –

Say we have 15,000 season ticket holders

For the City game we then had

15,000 ST holders + 3,403 (city + few extra) = 18,403 so extra was 3,403 @ £28 (rough ave price) = £95,284

Now even if the new price (£17.50) only attracted an extra 2,100 onto what was there on Sunday it would make the attendance 20,503 and be worth an extra £96,250 on top of season ticket sales. Making a total of £1,034 extra in ticket sales alone to what was there. On top of that you have an extra 2100 people at the ground to purchase pies, hotdogs, alcohol & maybe club merchandise like programmes and kits.

It also should create a better atmosphere and therefore entice more people to come back to ewood.

Personally if the tickets were £17.50 for adults I think City would of sold out there 8000.

But you are forgetting that Season Ticket prices would have to come down to £17.50 each as well. So instead of the club making about £500,000 out of 18,000 ticket sales, they would only be making £350,000 out of 20,000 ticket sales.

Not a business call I would make lightly.

Edited September 19, 2006 by Biddy

[Hughesy]

Eh??? Forget what we already have in season ticket sales. That’s already in the bank.

It’s the extra that are being attracted that is the problem – but just to show you what I mean il show you below.

Firstly 20,000 @ 17.50 = £350,000 – not 320k

18,000 @ £28 (a rough ave of price for sunday) = £504,000

But what im saying is - @ £17.50, rather than £28 you are going to get a hell of a lot more fans in the ground.

If the price for an adult ticket was only £17.50 then without a doubt we could have got at least 25,000 on for that game – because for starters City would of sold there full 8000 tickets. So @ 25,000 it would be worth £437,500. So to start we are a total of £66,500 down – but there is an extra 6,597 at the game - spending money on pies, hotdogs, beer, programmes and club merchandise. You then also have a better atmosphere and a better feeling around the ground when there are more bums on seats.

And that should hopefully help more fans want to come back to Ewood Park.