[Archived] Nicko's Thread

[bellamy11]

Tell me another manager who's team faced a very weak Sheffield Wednesday in the semi-finals.

We should perhaps hand the trophy back then. We managed to avoid teams like Watford and Wigan in recent semi-finals so to be honest we probably deserved that Sheffield Wednesday draw anyway.

[nicko]

Kenny Dalglish

I think King Kenny might have had some financial help.

[RevidgeBlue]

I think King Kenny might have had some financial help.

So did Souness.

40m quids worth if I recall correctly.

[joey_big_nose]

I think King Kenny might have had some financial help.

So did Souness. Pound for pound I think he actually spent more than Kenny (interesting set of figures to draw up if anyone can be bothered) But of course the relative spending was much higher than our rivals in 1995, Man Utd aside.

[RevidgeBlue]

So did Souness. Pound for pound I think he actually spent more than Kenny (interesting set of figures to draw up if anyone can be bothered) But of course the relative spending was much higher than our rivals in 1995, Man Utd aside.

The main thing about Dalglish's spending was that we made a huge profit on the players he signed whereas we made a huge loss on most of Souness's acquisitions.

I think Neill is the only Souness signing who has ever moved on for a profit.

Grabbi, Cole, Yorke, Ferguson, Amoruso, - that's 20m quid simply vanished into thin air off the top of my head.

[Ricky]

I think Neill is the only Souness signing who has ever moved on for a profit.

I'll give you Marcus Bent to add to that, can't think of too many more off the top of my head.

[joey_big_nose]

The main thing about Dalglish's spending was that we made a huge profit on the players he signed whereas we made a huge loss on most of Souness's acquisitions.

I think Neill is the only Souness signing who has ever moved on for a profit.

Grabbi, Cole, Yorke, Ferguson, Amoruso, - that's 20m quid simply vanished into thin air off the top of my head.

Cole and Yorke despite being expensive were decent value signings. The only daft thing was Souness forced Cole out when he had another season in him or at least could have sold him for a few million...

Amoruso, Ferguson and Grabbi were all wastes of money.

But I suppose you have to balance that against Tugay, Fredal, Thompson, Short, Pedersen, Niell, Stead, Emerton even Gresko who were all great value.

[Blueboy Downunder]

i always say that barry ferguson was and still is a quality player, so in that respect i think he was a good player for us. however....is un professionalism let himself down badly as well as the club and the fans.

[Ste B]

Tell me another manager who's team faced a very weak Sheffield Wednesday in the semi-finals.

Kenny Dalglish

But we lost that one over 2 legs.

Anybody who doesnt think Souness achieved a lot at Rovers is quite simply insane. As is anybody who didnt think he had lost the plot in the last 12 months of his tenure.

[thenodrog]

i always say that barry ferguson was and still is a quality player, so in that respect i think he was a good player for us. however....is un professionalism let himself down badly as well as the club and the fans.

Disagree Blueboy. imo he was vastly overated and likewise overpriced.

That apart he was a devisive cheating little sweaty.

[Ricky]

El Tombro, did you see much of Gresko when we had him on loan before signing him permenantly.

He was top notch before we actually paid out for him. Dont think anyone could argue with that signing after the impact he made during his loan period.

[mac]

Well said Ricky, I thought we had bought a bargain untill his performances after he signed

[Cocker]

I remember some good games he had, but based on the performances he gave after we bought him I'd have to say he wasn't worth paying for.

Yes but read what Ricky is saying. He played well while on loan to us and therefore ANY player that impresses on their trial/loan we should pay what we think they are worth.

I still think if it wasn't for his injuries that he would have still been good for us.

[Cocker]

Sorry Cocker, did I say we shouldn't have bought him based on those performances? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yes but my point really was that you said:-

I remember some good games he had, but based on the performances he gave after we bought him I'd have to say he wasn't worth paying for.

Now correct me if I am wrong but can any manager see into the future.

[Blakey]

Cole and Yorke despite being expensive were decent value signings. The only daft thing was Souness forced Cole out when he had another season in him or at least could have sold him for a few million...

Amoruso, Ferguson and Grabbi were all wastes of money.

But I suppose you have to balance that against Tugay, Fredal, Thompson, Short, Pedersen, Niell, Stead, Emerton even Gresko who were all great value.

I'm sorry but i can't agree with you on Thompson and Gresko. Thompson was injured more than he was available for selection and think the rest has been said about Gresko, quality whilst on loan but very poor once made permanent!

[Cocker]

I'd like to correct you Cocker, no manager can see into the future! I made the comment that he was a failure after Souness bought him and I agreed with Rick that he had good performances up until then. Don't know why you're asking me if managers are psychic or not!

Thought we were discussing failed purchases...

You just confuse the hell out of me mate - I will leave it at that anyway because I cant be bothered with pages of replies

[nicko]

Souness talking to Bolton according to R5 Live. Looks like they're preparing for life in the Championship.

Just a reminder of the 'red hot' news from Radio 5 that started such interesting debate. That was right, wasn't it.

By the way - on dear old Souey.

What do all of the following have in common? Friedel, Emerton, Tugay, Reid, Pedersen.

Signed by him and, over three years on, still key parts of your squad...not so daft in the transfer market after all.

Grabbi was a shocker. I have witnesses who will tell you I rated him a dud after 45 minutes at Port Vale.

Ferguson was, like so many Scots who come down, too lightweight.

Amoruso was poor and past it.

Otherwise his signings stand up more than most. As for claims that he had more to spend - relatively - than Kenny Dalglish. Please.

Kenny bought and bought and then bought again.

Souey also sold to finance other deals. Duff and Dunn brought a lot of cash back.

Cole and Yorke had fall-outs, but what have they done since?

But I recall the state Rovers were in before he arrived. Anyone at the Crewe game or even at Stoockport when they won or some of the depressing matches beforehand will recall that the place had gone. So don't re-write history.

[joey_big_nose]

I'm sorry but i can't agree with you on Thompson and Gresko. Thompson was injured more than he was available for selection and think the rest has been said about Gresko, quality whilst on loan but very poor once made permanent!

We paid very little for Thompson (1.5 million) and while he was injured towards the end of his time here in the 2002/2003 season and the 2003/2004 season he was excellent, even forcing himself into the England squad.

Its a shame really that injuries got him. He has only just turned 30.

Gresko is more tenuous I would admit, but he was also cheap.

[Ozz]

Well said Alan.

[USABlue]

And wasn't that pretty much Rev's jist in the first place, it really depends on how you want to take Rev's statement, one which rings true if you take it at face value. Sadly in your swift effort to drag it into a racist comment you've missed it.

More so it backs my earlier point.

Sorry to drag up this "race" thing again but I need to make a Public apology to El Tombro for the "effort to drag it into a racist" remark. I mistook another poster for him and there fore wrongly accused him, sorry El Tombro.

However the rest of what I said stands

[Cocker]

Can't recall clearly but didn't Duff have a minimum fee release clause?

Yeah, pretty sure it was 18m

[nicko]

Can't recall clearly but didn't Duff have a minimum fee release clause? And isn't that also down to John Williams' very capable handling of anticipation and negotiating transfers?

Souness made us and then broke us (though not to a devastating extent). Ultimately it seems like his ego got in the way of continuing a very successful spell with us, although who knows what goes on behind the scenes.

Duff had a clause at £17 million. This was the same Duff who went down with Brian Kidd and could have been worth nothing if you had not found a manager to drag you up from the depths. So I think it would be fair to say that his valuation was down both to an astute clause and the fact he was worth buying rather than being in the shadows.

As for breaking you, have a look at the players he left.

Mark Hughes has not had to to buy a keeper, a right back, a midfield schemer or a left winger because of what was still there.

And, yes, that's the same Mark Hughes who was signed by Souness...

Of course he had problems towards the end, but when it comes to important managers in your history he deserves respect rather than the slagging that comes from some quarters.

[nicko]

But it's strange how he doesn't seem to be able to handle a crop of 'big' players (whether that means good players and/or players with a certain character is up for debate) and the effects are pretty devastating.

I don't think that is 100 per cent right.

At Rangers he signed all of the big-name players going in Britain. Never had a problem there.

At Liverpool he probably tried to change it too quickly. I think he admits that himself.

He went to Newcastle with a brief of kicking out the trouble-makers. He did. Unfortunately he signed a few duffers to replace them. And the local press man didn't like him - which is a serious problem at that place.

As for handling big players at Blackburn, I think he fell out with Cole and Yorke because he felt they were not doing it for the club - not because of personality problems with them.

Andy Todd was another fall-out, but he had his tiffs with Mark Hughes too and is currently in Derby County reserves.

And before you accuse me of bias towards him I should point out that I broke the stories about the Yorke and Todd rows. The Cole spat came from elsewhere.

In his defence Souey never ducked a tough question like that, which is why I like the guy professionally. There are plenty of liars about.

[Blakey]

We paid very little for Thompson (1.5 million) and while he was injured towards the end of his time here in the 2002/2003 season and the 2003/2004 season he was excellent, even forcing himself into the England squad.

Just for the record, here are Thompson's playing stats for Blackburn;

02/03 played 23 games

03/04 11 games

04/05 24 games

05/06 6 games

Hardly a good return on £1.5M!

[nicko]

That's a fair point, although I wouldn't exactly call Owen a duffer.

Out of interest, how exactly did he handle the Yorke issue? Not being behind the scenes, it always sounds like he simply falls out with people or he just hacks them off...

I think we can guess at least one of them... but you also have to wonder why would they go the extent of lying about him? It has to be a personal grudge or personality conflict, no matter how professional you think he is, it's too well documented that he's "fallen out" with players. I don't know any managers in industry that just fall out with their staff and I believe part of management is handling people on their own level to get the best out of them. But as a non-professional footballing figure what would I know?

I think some Newcastle fans would disagree with you on Owen... In truch, Souey wanted Anelka and not Owen. That is a fact. He thought the Frenchman was better and would score more goals. I would have to agree with that assessment.

He was very straight on Yorke. When I put what I knew to him he confirmed it - many would have lied about a story like that.

You have to deal with all sorts in this game and many will tell so many stories that your head spins.

At least with Souey you know where you stand. We had big fall-outs, but he was big enough to see the picture and sort things out if you fronted him up on things. I wish there were more like him.

As for fall-outs, they just happen all of the time in football. They are only costly if you lose a good player because of it. I don't think that was the case with Cole and Yorke by that stage of their careers.

Yorke and Cole fell out with Sir Alex before they left Man U. Doesn't make him a bad boss.