[Archived] Nicko's Thread

[Boz]

Duff had a clause at £17 million. This was the same Duff who went down with Brian Kidd and could have been worth nothing if you had not found a manager to drag you up from the depths. So I think it would be fair to say that his valuation was down both to an astute clause and the fact he was worth buying rather than being in the shadows.

As for breaking you, have a look at the players he left.

Mark Hughes has not had to to buy a keeper, a right back, a midfield schemer or a left winger because of what was still there.

And, yes, that's the same Mark Hughes who was signed by Souness...

Of course he had problems towards the end, but when it comes to important managers in your history he deserves respect rather than the slagging that comes from some quarters.

I have to agree with Nicko on this one, Souness deserves the respect for his achievements at BRFC. Despite me being relieved when Fat Freddie came calling, I was and still am grateful to Yosser, for getting us promoted and Cardiff. Also on the whole his transfers were top drawer, well his earlier ones in bringing two of our legends to Ewood, Friedel and Tugay.

I'm very much enjoying listening to the goings on at the Breezeblock, Gartside is performing a wonderful job! As a matter of interest the role of Mark Curtis is fascinating. Agents' role in football? You can get a whiff of the nasty smell emanating from Horwich.

[nicko]

5 goals in the Prem, plus a number of assists (considering the amount of games he played and the injuries will bring him out of form) is probably worth that amount if it gets us higher in the table, considering each place is £0.5m difference.

It's a bit hard to assess Thommo's contribution. The poor fella had horrendous injuries. Sometimes that just happens. He never stopped trying to get back and went to Wigan for less money just to try his luck. I always had him down as one of the good guys.

[philipl]

I'll just reiterate what I wrote on another thread.

Two years into his time at Rovers, Souness was bracketed with KD as the best Manager we ever had.

But his next two years saw him totally lose the plot and was making decisions of Kidd-like awfulness. We were headed straight back where he lifted us from had he stayed- all honour and thanks to Fat Freddie who paid the Rovers something like £500K to take Souey off our hands and all credit to the six other Managers who had previously said no to Fat Freddie's circus.

[USABlue]

It's a bit hard to assess Thommo's contribution. The poor fella had horrendous injuries. Sometimes that just happens. He never stopped trying to get back and went to Wigan for less money just to try his luck. I always had him down as one of the good guys.

Thommo was outstanding in my opinion, when he was fully fit that is, once the knees went it was all over for him, sadly.

[MCMC1875]

Just a reminder of the 'red hot' news from Radio 5 that started such interesting debate. That was right, wasn't it.

[broadsword]

Of course he had problems towards the end, but when it comes to important managers in your history he deserves respect rather than the slagging that comes from some quarters.

Indeed, I've still got plenty of time for the bloke.

And I read that he withdrew from the interview process, he wasn't passed over in favour of Megson. In fact there was a quote from Gartside in the 'paper to that effect.

[MCMC1875]

Just a reminder of the 'red hot' news from Radio 5 that started such interesting debate. That was right, wasn't it.

By the way - on dear old Souey.

What do all of the following have in common? Friedel, Emerton, Tugay, Reid, Pedersen.

Signed by him and, over three years on, still key parts of your squad...not so daft in the transfer market after all.

Grabbi was a shocker. I have witnesses who will tell you I rated him a dud after 45 minutes at Port Vale.

Ferguson was, like so many Scots who come down, too lightweight.

Amoruso was poor and past it.

Otherwise his signings stand up more than most. As for claims that he had more to spend - relatively - than Kenny Dalglish. Please.

Kenny bought and bought and then bought again.

Souey also sold to finance other deals. Duff and Dunn brought a lot of cash back.

Cole and Yorke had fall-outs, but what have they done since?

But I recall the state Rovers were in before he arrived. Anyone at the Crewe game or even at Stoockport when they won or some of the depressing matches beforehand will recall that the place had gone. So don't re-write history.

Souness was the right man at the right time. Jack Walker's last and saving appointment for Rovers. I was hinting that Bolton's plight might soon need someone who could lift them a division.

[mjs]

In my 35+ years as a Rovers fan, we have won the the following:

old 3rd Div Champions - manager Gordon Lee

promotion from old 3rd div - Howard Kendall

promotion to prem via play-offs - Kenny Dalglish

prem league champions - Kenny Dalglish

Promotion to prem - Graeme Souness

League Cup - Graeme Souness

In my book that makes Souness a very important part of my Rovers experience, and indeed our proud history.

Of course it all went down the toilet, but some people have way too short memories and conveniently forget all the good stuff he did for us.

[Tim Southampton Rover]

Thommo was outstanding in my opinion, when he was fully fit that is, once the knees went it was all over for him, sadly.

Yeah, he was a feisty little fella who always impressed when he was fit and was one of those footballers that could change the game with a bit of magic.

[Dunnfc]

Souness was class when bringing us back up and winning the worthington cup. Unfortuatly i thought he spent more money than he should and i thought he wasted a little but never the less we have a debt to Souey. Souness probably outstayed his welcome by about 6mths and i was happy when he went as we were starting to go backwards under him as i felt he achived as much as he could here, infact hes pretty similar to Wigan and Paul Jewell. I knew hed lost the plot tho when he talked about our defence having to defend our garden. The way Souness left was pretty bad as i heard that most of the rovers players and Souey were in the bar watching tv skysports when the news broke out that Souey had gone to Newc, i dont know if this was true or not but it wouldnt suprise me. Souey is a manger who will keep you up and take you out the ###### but hes not a brilliant manager and hes certainly no tatical genius. The way he handled Dunns exit was probably a littlle bit bad but we all make mistakes ehy?

[ihateburnley]

Grabbi was a shocker. I have witnesses who will tell you I rated him a dud after 45 minutes at Port Vale.

When did Grabbi play against Port Vale?

[Florida Rover]

Must have been a reserve game because soccerbase only turned up this:

1999/2000

Football League Championship Port Vale 0-0 Blackburn Rovers 04-12-1999

Football League Championship Blackburn Rovers 0-0 Port Vale 07-08-1999

1996/1997

English FA Cup Blackburn Rovers 1-0 Port Vale 04-01-1997

[blue phil]

The daft thing is that a Pakistani consortium, provided they met all the criteria set out in Jack's will, could actually be a great thing for the club. They could reach out to the Asian folk in Blackburn and encourage more of them to get down to Ewood - something that could only help the club in the long-term.

Spoken like a true fifth form idealist .....

Time to get real though and face the harsh truth .

Firstly , any Pakistani consortium (be they home or foreign bred Pakistanis ) would have to slash ticket prices to zero to attract the Pakistani fans from Blackburn as long as Ewood is a football ground and not a mosque .

Secondly a very , very hefty percentage of real long term fans would never set foot in the ground again .

End result - gates of about 10,000 I'd guess at this level , diminishing rapidly as we get relegated .......

The reason for the fans' scepticism ? Rightly or wrongly they would suspect the motives of any Pakistani consortium . Why the sudden interest in football ? Is the premiership that dodgy that one of its teams could be used for such nefarious activities that the nation of Pakistan is famed for ? Last time I looked the UN branded Pakistan the most corrupt nation on earth ....amidst stiff competition . Perception and trust is everything .

The bottom line is that such a deal would be the death of the Rovers - we'd be laughed out of existence .

Somehow I think that the board wouldn't want to go down in history with that on their consciences . Dan Williams would be a massive gamble but this would be suicide . Whether the criteria in Jack's will could be overcome or not is irrelevant I'm afraid - there'd always be the question of trust .

One question remains .....would Jack have wanted this ?

[rovers_rob]

I don't think we have heard the last of dan williams yet, he said in september that there was no rush to take over the club as there isn't anything they can do before the january window anyway.

Surely he will still be the front runner to take over as he has been talking to the club for months now.

If there are any consortiums that are serious about taking the club over then i think that it will happen in the next few weeks because we have a superb team on and of the pitch.

[Anti Euro Smiths Fan]

And before you accuse me of bias towards him I should point out that I broke the stories about the Yorke and Todd rows.

Nicko, I suspect you would not want to reveal your sources for the rows, but is it fair to suggest that there was a 'mole' within the club who was happy to leak such information ?

It sounds to me as if Souness didn't mind news of the bust-ups getting into the press.

Secondly a very , very hefty percentage of real long term fans would never set foot in the ground again .

I think that would be the case Phil. If Rovers fans are concerned about the 19,000 attendance figure against Reading, I suspect that we'd get considerably less than that if the "newcomers" arrived.

One question remains .....would Jack have wanted this ?

As a betting man (and Jack liked the odd flutter too) , I think it would be an odds on chance that Jack would not have wanted this.

[ABBEY]

10,000 ?phil i would guess 4 would be more realistic,.Going off previous on this thread id say there would be more season ticket holders from out of towners and going off the comments off people ive chatted to a figure of at least 75% would return their tickets ...maybe even go to burnley is a possiblty for some

[philipl]

I don't think we have heard the last of dan williams yet, he said in september that there was no rush to take over the club as there isn't anything they can do before the january window anyway.

Surely he will still be the front runner to take over as he has been talking to the club for months now.

If there are any consortiums that are serious about taking the club over then i think that it will happen in the next few weeks because we have a superb team on and of the pitch.

If Dan Williams is the front runner, I very much doubt there will be a sale. I think he is too badly tarnished partly by Nicko's squirreling but mostly by his own media appearances which have undermined his credibility.

My gut feel is that things are not totally inactive behind the scenes and that is exactly where it will stay until/unless there is an announcement of a deal.

I don't know where Nicko has conjured the latest consortium from. £100m+, if they have it in liquid funds, just might get them over the wire if they use it the right way but I think that is a long shot. blue phil has shown his colours somewhat on that one

[Flopsy]

Pakistani's, Arabs, Martians, Americans, Russian, French (oh god not the french) Blackpoolians, Indian, Chinese, Singaporean, Australian (I'd expect Jim Mk2 and Chesh would become burnley fans before they let that happen), doesnt matter who they are, Im guessing most Rovers fans wouldnt want them taking over the club, because we fear change.

I dont give a crap what religion/nationality they are, as long as they do whats right for Rovers in the long term, not just an asset strip or money laundering.

To say just because they have pakistani origin they must be dodgy is like saying, just because they're american they have a horse, rance cattle and own half an oil well, its just a lazy sweeping generalisation without any thought behind it. Phil, you dont want them because they're Muslims and therefore in your mind - evil.

Maybe they are corrupt, maybe they'll use the club to finance terrorism. Likely? Doubt it, more likely they'll use it to make them money, like any person nowadays who buys a football club.

Jack Walker is dead, as are the breed of people like him who bought clubs because they loved them, that no longer happens, the best we can hope for is that they're relatively honest and leave us better off than when they took over.

Right back to more interesting stuff.

Souness was good for the club because he got us promioted, won us a cup and got us finishing 6th in the league.

That outweighs everything else, because he left us better off than when he joined, or are people so blinkered to remember playing in the first division, or how "good" we were under Kidd?

[Ste B]

Spoken like a true fifth form idealist .....

Did Den not warn what would happen you take this down in the same way as you have other threads.

[Sandiway Blue]

Pakistani's, Arabs, Martians, Americans, Russian, French (oh god not the french) Blackpoolians, Indian, Chinese, Singaporean, Australian (I'd expect Jim Mk2 and Chesh would become burnley fans before they let that happen), doesnt matter who they are, Im guessing most Rovers fans wouldnt want them taking over the club, because we fear change.

I dont give a crap what religion/nationality they are, as long as they do whats right for Rovers in the long term, not just an asset strip or money laundering.

To say just because they have pakistani origin they must be dodgy is like saying, just because they're american they have a horse, rance cattle and own half an oil well, its just a lazy sweeping generalisation without any thought behind it. Phil, you dont want them because they're Muslims and therefore in your mind - evil.

Maybe they are corrupt, maybe they'll use the club to finance terrorism. Likely? Doubt it, more likely they'll use it to make them money, like any person nowadays who buys a football club.

Jack Walker is dead, as are the breed of people like him who bought clubs because they loved them, that no longer happens, the best we can hope for is that they're relatively honest and leave us better off than when they took over.

Right back to more interesting stuff.

Souness was good for the club because he got us promioted, won us a cup and got us finishing 6th in the league.

That outweighs everything else, because he left us better off than when he joined, or are people so blinkered to remember playing in the first division, or how "good" we were under Kidd?

Exactly how any manager should be judged imo.

Graeme Souness should rightfully take his place as one of the best managers Rovers have ever had.Although having said that,i felt he also left at the right time as we were heading back to the championship.

But he left us better off than he found us,so thanks Souey.

[nicko]

When did Grabbi play against Port Vale?

It was a pre-season friendly. He was truly awful. Quite proud that I spotted him as a nugget on the spot...

[Jordan]

Pakistani's, Arabs, Martians, Americans, Russian, French (oh god not the french) Blackpoolians, Indian, Chinese, Singaporean, Australian (I'd expect Jim Mk2 and Chesh would become burnley fans before they let that happen), doesnt matter who they are, Im guessing most Rovers fans wouldnt want them taking over the club, because we fear change.

I dont give a crap what religion/nationality they are, as long as they do whats right for Rovers in the long term, not just an asset strip or money laundering.

To say just because they have pakistani origin they must be dodgy is like saying, just because they're american they have a horse, rance cattle and own half an oil well, its just a lazy sweeping generalisation without any thought behind it. Phil, you dont want them because they're Muslims and therefore in your mind - evil.

Maybe they are corrupt, maybe they'll use the club to finance terrorism. Likely? Doubt it, more likely they'll use it to make them money, like any person nowadays who buys a football club.

Jack Walker is dead, as are the breed of people like him who bought clubs because they loved them, that no longer happens, the best we can hope for is that they're relatively honest and leave us better off than when they took over.

Right back to more interesting stuff.

Souness was good for the club because he got us promioted, won us a cup and got us finishing 6th in the league.

That outweighs everything else, because he left us better off than when he joined, or are people so blinkered to remember playing in the first division, or how "good" we were under Kidd?

Eha what youw on?

Not goinf to happen, hope it wont happen.

[FourLaneBlue]

When did Grabbi play against Port Vale?

I remember when we played Port Vale in a pre-season friendly and it might have been Grabbi's first game although I can't be sure.

[bob fleming]

It was a pre-season friendly. He was truly awful. Quite proud that I spotted him as a nugget on the spot...

I can go one better nicko! I saw Grabbi make his debut against small German side TSV Crailsheim on a pre season tour of Germany in 2001 (25 July). He showed a good few touches but had no pace, drifted out to the left (funny that, as that's where he generally played), wasn't tall or good in the air and didn't have that "presence" that all good strikers have. Of course I didn't write him off there on then but I couldn't for the life of me see a player worth £6.75 million.

It has to go down as one of the strangest transfers ever.

Souness did some great things but for me he nearly undid the whole lot (you can't take a Cup Win away from us mind you) - the team he left behind was a joke. It was a minor miracle that 1. Hughes kept us up 2. Newcastle came in for him.

Oh for £7m to ###### up the wall on a player these days.

[nicko]

Souness did some great things but for me he nearly undid the whole lot (you can't take a Cup Win away from us mind you) - the team he left behind was a joke. It was a minor miracle that 1. Hughes kept us up 2. Newcastle came in for him.

Friedel, Neill, Gray, Emerton, Tugay, Pedersen even Dickov...not a bad nucleus of a side. Far from a joke.

Ryan Nelsen and Sav came in the window, but otherwise it was the bulk of his players who made the FA Cup semi.

Pedersen, as I recall, was almost out of the door under the new manager until a certain third round tie at Cardiff...wasn't Toddy sent to Burnley on loan too?

It's not all black and white or even blue and white.

Some of the players were low and I don't think the board would have backed him with cash for signings if results had not lifted, so the parting was probably for the best.

Sparky takes credit for sharpening them up and playing 4-5-1 despite the criticism. It wasn't pretty, but it got the result.