[Archived] Nicko's Thread

[rover6]

No, but I take an interest...

The sad bottom line is that domestic kids do not have the appetite or talent - and that applies at all levels and probably not just football.

I see reserve football when I can and Man U, Liverpool and even Bolton are swamped with foreign youngsters. Can you imagine any British kids going abroad to try and make a living?

It affects Scotland, Wales and Ireland too. The home nations used to have lots of kids coming through, now it is a trickle there too.

That may be true to a certain extent but I just ask what message clubs like Rovers send out to the youth players when we make an emergency signing of Bruno Berner. A guy who cannot get into the Swiss national squad, by all reports, apparently not wanted by his former club and who, after a few unspectacular reserve games is taking precedence of the younger players.

Now, we don't know how good Berner is - but surely the evidence, some of which I've alluded to, would suggest he's not up to much. And his display against Pompey supports that.

However, because Hughes signed him and because he's experienced, he will get games. Martin Olsson, Taylor and Kane etc. have to loiter in the reserves waiting for Bruno to get injured to get a chance. Imo, Britain isn't producing great talent in abundance - but to make things worse, we are not making the most of the talent we have.

Cream rises to the top? Only when Shabani Nonda, Francis Jeffers and Jason Roberts are fortuitously get injured at the same time, giving a unexpected chance for Derbyshire. Had those blessed injuries not occurred, Matt Derbyshire may still be awaiting his breakthrough. And another frustrating spell on loan like he had at Plymouth and who knows, he may by now have been on the road to despondency and career stagnation.

[Eddie]

That may be true to a certain extent but I just ask what message clubs like Rovers send out to the youth players when we make an emergency signing of Bruno Berner. A guy who cannot get into the Swiss national squad, by all reports, apparently not wanted by his former club and who, after a few unspectacular reserve games is taking precedence of the younger players.

Now, we don't know how good Berner is - but surely the evidence, some of which I've alluded to, would suggest he's not up to much. And his display against Pompey supports that.

However, because Hughes signed him and because he's experienced, he will get games. Martin Olsson, Taylor and Kane etc. have to loiter in the reserves waiting for Bruno to get injured to get a chance. Imo, Britain isn't producing great talent in abundance - but to make things worse, we are not making the most of the talent we have.

Cream rises to the top? Only when Shabani Nonda, Francis Jeffers and Jason Roberts are fortuitously get injured at the same time, giving a unexpected chance for Derbyshire. Had those blessed injuries not occurred, Matt Derbyshire may still be awaiting his breakthrough. And another frustrating spell on loan like he had at Plymouth and who knows, he may by now have been on the road to despondency and career stagnation.

His display against Portsmouth was far from poor. On that basis we should also not have signed Samba or Santa Cruz, neither of them were wanted by their team either. Where is Olsson from again?

[stuwilky]

However, because Hughes signed him and because he's experienced, he will get games. Martin Olsson, Taylor and Kane etc. have to loiter in the reserves waiting for Bruno to get injured to get a chance. Imo, Britain isn't producing great talent in abundance - but to make things worse, we are not making the most of the talent we have.

Remind me, didnt Hughes sign Olsson?

He hasnt got experience, but yet has played for the first team....twice isnt it now?

does that ###### on your bonfire enough?

Isnt that proof that youngsters will be played if they are good enough? I know that you wouldnt be happy unless we fielded a team of kids, that you hadnt seen play before but reckon they must be ok.

[Eddie]

Well I can understand Rover6 point. If we do keep signing mediocre (or at least people thought to be mediocre) players, then the youngsters will be one spot further away from the first team and being able to show us what they are really capable of. Having said that, we can't really afford to simply throw a youngster in at the deep end for 10 games of a season, as that could end up costing us a cup run or a couple of places in the league. We need experienced reserves who are able to fill in, but at the same time we have to use every chance we get to blood the youngsters. It's a difficult balance and what has been shown, at least in my mind, is that the best way to do that is to send them out on loan. Derbyshire would appear to be the example of a near perfect way to handle it. Yes, it still requires a few injuries for him to really get his chance, but do you really want us going into a season with 15-17 experienced players and from that point on simply throw youngsters into the mix? It won't work. I can understand the frustration, but I think any really promising youngsters will get a decent chance. There are a few of them in the first team squad this season and I'd expect that they'll get some playing time.

[CAPT KAYOS]

Green is not as good as people make out. Had a shocker when he stepped up to England level.

I've been saying this for a long time ...

As for the UK youngsters coming through , I still stand by my decision that they are taken into the academies at too early an age and should be allowed to adopt a natural talent and nous for the game rather than a regimental structure.

Do apprentices still clean the boots of the established players nowadays?

[broadsword]

I think Hughes is quoted as saying that when he first arrived here, the academy had better training facilities than the first-team, that is ridiculous. As he mentioned, decent facilities are a privilege that has to be earned.

I think academies should be scvrapped and players should have to come up teh hard way rather than having their bottoms wiped for them.

[Consequence]

Allardyce has been cut to 8s from 22s in the 'next manager to go' market, any news on that nicko or just down to dodgy results?

[nicko]

Allardyce has been cut to 8s from 22s in the 'next manager to go' market, any news on that nicko or just down to dodgy results?

I think there is trouble at that particular mill...

The Sunderland draw will keep him going, but Ashley did not appoint him and is not too happy with his signings. So that's two major worries for Big Sam.

Curbishley dodged a bullet by winning at Derby - and Billy Davies seems to be bombproof for some reason.

Steve Gibson is standing by Gareth Southgate despite the evidence before his eyes.

So, Big Sam is a reasonable 8-1. But I would save your cash all the same.

[Cocker]

I think there is trouble at that particular mill...

Curbishley dodged a bullet by winning at Derby - and Billy Davies seems to be bombproof for some reason.

To be fair who else would want that job anyway. I see no reason why Billy Davies should be sacked (apart from buying Earnshaw for 5.5m - I think it was)

Its the same with Boothroyd at Watford. If a manager gets a team like that into the prem they shouldnt be sacked if they go back down a year later (unless they spend shed loads and get no where I suppose)

[CAPT KAYOS]

Another question... our current England squad... what year (ish) does anyone think our previous squad(s) were better than our current one?

1966

[philipl]

Curbishley dodged a bullet by winning at Derby

So, Big Sam is a reasonable 8-1. But I would save your cash all the same.

I thought Curbs looked far more ecstatic than any normal person should have done after padgering Derby.

Even when he gets his injured players back, WHam are never going to be much more than mediocre.

Astonishingly, Sam seems to have bought nearly as badly as Souey when it comes to the Newcastle backline. Perhaps he got them from the same dodgy agent?

[LeftWinger]

Another question... our current England squad... what year (ish) does anyone think our previous squad(s) were better than our current one?

Euro 96 team was better for me. Not sure about the squad though.

[Cheshireblue]

Nicko makes a valid point in respect of our youngsters. They are not generally hungry enough to go that extra yard, train that extra half hour or put in the extra practice. It's too easy living in England. You can always go back to school, get a few more qualifications, get an office job or whatever. Compare that to the millions of children in Africa and south america for whom football is their only hope of getting out of the squalor that they live in and getting a better life. That motivation just is not there in English youngsters. Inevitably therefore, more foreign youngsters are coming through.

[LDRover]

The Euro '96 team was well overrated IMO and never had to qualify for a major tournament.

Aside from a 4-1 win over an in-fighting Dutch team what exactly did we do? Beat the Scots thanks to Dave Seaman and beat the Spaniards on pens after they'd had a perfectly good goal disallowed.

We couldn't beat the Swiss and a pretty poor German side beat us on pens, and all this at fortress Wembley. Kind of puts the achievements of a certain Sven Goran Eriksson (5-1 away in Germany) and Glenn Hoddle (defensive masterclass in the Italians back yard to qualify for France '98) in perspective don't you think?

Sorry totally off thread but never mind.

[benlloninho]

As long as a large majority of Brazilian kids spend their formative years playing football in the street from morning until night (and not in school), they will continue to produce top class talent. Replace Brazil with the other South American and African countries, etc.

I can't really speak for England, but here in America pace, strength, size, etc. are more valuable attributes than technical ability. And as we all know, we're a massive footballing nation.

[daren]

That rule is sort of coming in from next season (I think). Clubs will have to field at least one player that has come through an English clubs academy. The number will grow over time. It hasn't got to be your own academy - any English academy will do. Unfortunately, the likes of Febregas count as they came through Arsenals academy, but it is a step in the right direction in my view.

Do Arsenal have an academy? They signed Fabregas from Barcelona's academy just as he turned professional (much to Barca's annoyance) and have had complaints from around the continent that they're approaching young players and offering them big money to move just before their academy terms are up.

An academy will always be a bit hit-or-miss, everyone isn't a Duff or Dunn or Given or Derbyshire. The trick is to get enough and be able to shift all the rest.

On the English youngsters, the academy rule will presumably be allowed, but players from within the EU cannot be classified as foreign players for the purposes of the league (if you recall, most of the leagues in Europe had rules preventing more than 3 foreign players in the matchday squad, in fact the Spanish league still has this rule but it cannot apply to players from other EU countries). So the leagues are trying to bring back the rule without falling afoul of those employment laws.

[John]

I decided to put some cash on Jewell to become next Wigan manager. He was at 2.8 last night.

Any news on this......?

[thenodrog]

That may be true to a certain extent but I just ask what message clubs like Rovers send out to the youth players when we make an emergency signing of Bruno Berner. A guy who cannot get into the Swiss national squad, by all reports, apparently not wanted by his former club and who, after a few unspectacular reserve games is taking precedence of the younger players.

Now, we don't know how good Berner is - but surely the evidence, some of which I've alluded to, would suggest he's not up to much. And his display against Pompey supports that.

However, because Hughes signed him and because he's experienced, he will get games. Martin Olsson, Taylor and Kane etc. have to loiter in the reserves waiting for Bruno to get injured to get a chance. Imo, Britain isn't producing great talent in abundance - but to make things worse, we are not making the most of the talent we have.

Cream rises to the top? Only when Shabani Nonda, Francis Jeffers and Jason Roberts are fortuitously get injured at the same time, giving a unexpected chance for Derbyshire. Had those blessed injuries not occurred, Matt Derbyshire may still be awaiting his breakthrough. And another frustrating spell on loan like he had at Plymouth and who knows, he may by now have been on the road to despondency and career stagnation.

Hughes out eh rover6?

[nicko]

I decided to put some cash on Jewell to become next Wigan manager. He was at 2.8 last night.

Any news on this......?

As the first edition of the Mirror will now be out I can pass this one on...

Paul Jewell has turned down Wigan. A lot of money too. Fair play to him for making a football decision.

Who they go for now is anyone's guess...

[USABlue]

As the first edition of the Mirror will now be out I can pass this one on...

Paul Jewell has turned down Wigan. A lot of money too. Fair play to him for making a football decision.

Who they go for now is anyone's guess...

Aah so he IS interested in the dingles job

[SAS]

I think there is trouble at that particular mill...

The Sunderland draw will keep him going, but Ashley did not appoint him and is not too happy with his signings. So that's two major worries for Big Sam.

Curbishley dodged a bullet by winning at Derby - and Billy Davies seems to be bombproof for some reason.

Steve Gibson is standing by Gareth Southgate despite the evidence before his eyes.

So, Big Sam is a reasonable 8-1. But I would save your cash all the same.

its ridiculous that curbs and fat sam are in danger of losing their jobs so short into their job. Football is too much, we want now not later.

And when a new manager comes in, the team gets changed, in come loads of new signings out go the last managers..

[RevidgeBlue]

As the first edition of the Mirror will now be out I can pass this one on...

Paul Jewell has turned down Wigan. A lot of money too. Fair play to him for making a football decision.

Who they go for now is anyone's guess...

At the time of posting Jewell can be laid at 4.8 on Betfair if anyone fancies a quick profit when the story becomes more common knowledge tomorrow.

I've heard Joe Royle for the Dingles today.

EDIT: Jewell has already drifted out to 5.2 on Betfair. Royle is favourite on there for the Wigan post as well at about 2.5

[LDRover]

I've heard Joe Royle for the Dingles today.

He said on Sky last night that he'd like a return to football but only to a team already in the Premiership or one with a realistic chance of reaching it.

So that rules the apes out.

[LeftWinger]

The Euro '96 team was well overrated IMO and never had to qualify for a major tournament.

Maybe it was over-rated, but my opinion is that I'd take that side over todays team.

Seaman or Robinson?

Pearce, Campbell, Adams, Neville or Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Richards

I'd go for the Euro 96 keeper and defence.

Shearer and Sheringham or Owen and Rooney?

As a combination I'd definitely go for the first two.

Ince and Gazza wasn't a bad central midfield either, and there probably isn't much to choose between McManaman/Cole and Anderton/Wright-Phillips?

My point was that the team hasn't improved any in the last 10/11 years. Look at the strikers we had back then - Shearer, Sheringham, Sutton, Fowler, Cole, Ferdinand, Collymore etc etc. When the likes of Andy Johnson, Jermain Defoe and Crouch are back-ups - just shows we haven't improved.

[LDRover]

Maybe it was over-rated, but my opinion is that I'd take that side over todays team.

Seaman or Robinson?

Pearce, Campbell, Adams, Neville or Cole, Terry, Ferdinand, Richards

I'd go for the Euro 96 keeper and defence.

Shearer and Sheringham or Owen and Rooney?

As a combination I'd definitely go for the first two.

Ince and Gazza wasn't a bad central midfield either, and there probably isn't much to choose between McManaman/Cole and Anderton/Wright-Phillips?

My point was that the team hasn't improved any in the last 10/11 years. Look at the strikers we had back then - Shearer, Sheringham, Sutton, Fowler, Cole, Ferdinand, Collymore etc etc. When the likes of Andy Johnson, Jermain Defoe and Crouch are back-ups - just shows we haven't improved.

Don't have any reason to disagree with you there. The point is that in my 36 years on this earth we've never won anything and I'd be absolutely astounded if we do so before I'm brown bread. We've just got to accept that we're not that good really.

For what it's worth I'd place the Italia 90 team as the best side since 66.

Shilton - Seaman Shilts undoubtedly.

Parker / Pearce - Neville / Pearce - Neville probably shades it but the younger Pearce was far better than the older one who just shouted at the fans a lot and hoofed the ball up the wing with his left peg.

Wright / Walker / Butcher - Adams / Campbell pretty close but I'd shade the former.

Gazza / Platt / Waddle / Barnes - Ince / Gazza / McManaman / Anderton The two wingers were in a different league in 1990 and the younger Gazza was as good as he could be in 1990. Platt was so good at this stage he went on to play for three top Italian sides.

Lineker / Beardsley - Shearer / Sheringham? The first two without question for me.

Anyway that's my opinion and I'm sticking to it.