Fútbol, Le Foot, Voetbal, ποδόσφαιρο

[darrenrover]

6 hours ago, ben_the_beast said:

Personally I'd be happy to see them go. But if they are going they are to walk away from all domestic competition. It would offer a very unique opportunity to address the imbalance of power in our own pyramid. Level the playing field. For too long the biggest clubs have destroyed the game in this country. 

I hope they all rot in their super league and that it doesn't take off. I'm sure foreign markets would make it sustainable. If they left though English football could become fun again. They can take VAR with them too whilst they're at it.

I totally agree, the solution as I'd deal with it:

1. Give 'The 6' one weeks notice that if they go, the door will be shut with any future re-entry into the English pyramid starting in League 2 or below.

2. Promote 6 teams from The Championship and relegate none from this season's Premier League. Invite Celtic and Rangers to compete in next season's Championship and promote 4 teams from League 1 etc to retain the status quo.

Fuck 'em, let's see long term, which competition has the larger appeal! (Be a few scousers and Mancs on Ewood too I reckon.......Best add Liverpool and Manchester to our proposed bus 'em in to Ewood schedule!)

[dave birch]

Darren, you were doing alright until " Invite Celtic and Rangers".

Best to let some English clubs move up the ladder. I'm sure they'll feel they've earned it.

[oldjamfan1]

53 minutes ago, darrenrover said:

I totally agree, the solution as I'd deal with it:

Invite Celtic and Rangers to compete in next season's Championship and promote 4 teams from League 1 etc to retain the status quo.

Inviting clubs from another country surely cannot be the solution to this. It’s not that far removed from what these clubs are plotting, when you think about it. 

[oldjamfan1]

This made me laugh.

Edit: I see @Riversider28 had already posted it on the premier league thread 😂

Edited April 20, 2021 by oldjamfan1

[Wheelton Blue]

I wonder what the Yank at Burnley is thinking.

Servicing his buyout debt may prove a little less easy if there's less money swilling around the PL after the 'Big 6' get booted out.

[darrenrover]

1 hour ago, oldjamfan1 said:

Inviting clubs from another country surely cannot be the solution to this. It’s not that far removed from what these clubs are plotting, when you think about it. 

No I agree totally, best solution is to stop this in it's tracks.

Why did The Government not intervene when it was (perhaps still is) patently obvious to those that cared to look, that little old Blackburn Rovers were being raped and pillaged? Is it the case that it's now only relevant because it involves the so perceived 'big six'? (none of which were even close to being founder members of The Football League in 1888)......none have any true HISTORY comparable to ours.

I was merely working on the premise that they're all 'bent' and what's 'good for the goose' is also 'sauce for the gander'!

WE ARE The Rovers!!!

[Dreams of 1995]

Spoke at length about this in a boozy Monday night. General consensus amongst the Villa / Blues / Baggies fans I drink with all wanted the 'Big 6' to go. Villa fans think they will benefit as a result and become a much bigger club.

Even if the money completely drained from the First Division (Premier League) people will still want to be footballers. If money leaves so does the demand from players / agents. Over time the business will do as business does and adapt and plateau at a level the finances determine. Everybody seemed pretty content with the idea that the 6 clubs could get kicked out, and it would allow 6 clubs to move up each league, including allowing 6 new clubs into the 4th division.

I don't think anybody actually wants that because we all enjoy the games against Utd and the like but I really don't think these 6 clubs have much goodwill amongst the remaining football fans in this country. That significantly weakens their position imo.

They are not helped by Perez latest conference, which he declared himself as the man "to save football". He called it the "important clubs in England, Italy and Spain" (no, really, he said that) getting together to create a more watchable tournament than what they would see "if Man Utd played a more modest Champions League team".

Getting in to bed with a man like that shows you everything you need to know. He has never cared about English football, and the debt levels the European clubs have in comparison to some of the English clubs show why they are so for it. Bunch of fools.

[RoverDom]

If the ESL goes ahead it needs to be separate to domestic football. If these clubs are getting 300m a season that drives up player fees, and will create huge wage inflation that trickles down the pyramid, it'll kill the game. 

 

Reform is needed and for me there's three things that need to happen 

1. Follow the German model of being 51% fan owned. 

2. Salary caps

3. Regulations placed on agents. 

It's a viscioous circle, as football gets more money, players and agents demand more which means owners want more money. 

Money in football is a double edged sword. On one hand we can improve stadiums, do outreach work, invest heavily in coaching and training infrastructure and this all improves the game. Pogba demanding 500k a game doesn't. 

I get there's a business side to it as well but I think football clubs could be profitable if you limit what you spend on wages and agent fees. You're not going to ruin the game by limiting what players can earn (as long as all the major leagues adopt it). 

[riverholmes]

Agree with RoverDom, above. Without reform and regulation, including fan ownership and representation on boards, things will continue towards the precipice. However, such a move will only happen with a unified fans' movement.

If clubs leave for the ESL, more will follow. There will be an ESL 2 and so on, with the next tier of clubs. It is just like the creation of the Premier League, which brought in a new era of inequality, only worse, due to it being formally, a relative closed shop. 

If a club qualifies somehow to be one of the fodder for the ESL and, presumably, almost guaranteed to go down, two things will happen. They will be grossly enriched, so the Premier League will be even more uncompetitive and, they will look for some way that they can boost their income to compete with the ESL.

The apathetic and the supporters of this proposal are asking for the destruction of professional football, including anyone from non-ESL Premier League clubs who fancy being the new Man Utd.

Edited April 20, 2021 by riverholmes

[jim mk2]

This is an American takeover of European football to woo consumers in China

And it won't stop under the present proposals; football will become like Super Bowl

So among other Americanisation reforms we can look forward to

1. Breaks in play every 10-15 minutes for TV advertising

2. Matches played around the world; eg, Man Utd v Barcelona in Shanghai; Arsenal v Milan in  Beijing; 

This is an existential threat to the game as we know it, dressed up as a guise according to the Real Madrid president as a "means to save football". 

 

[roverandout]

2 hours ago, darrenrover said:

I totally agree, the solution as I'd deal with it:

1. Give 'The 6' one weeks notice that if they go, the door will be shut with any future re-entry into the English pyramid starting in League 2 or below.

2. Promote 6 teams from The Championship and relegate none from this season's Premier League. Invite Celtic and Rangers to compete in next season's Championship and promote 4 teams from League 1 etc to retain the status quo.

Fuck 'em, let's see long term, which competition has the larger appeal! (Be a few scousers and Mancs on Ewood too I reckon.......Best add Liverpool and Manchester to our proposed bus 'em in to Ewood schedule!)

Not a chance.  Dont want any Scottish teams in the English league.  Don't even want the welsh ones. Keep our countries separate.  

[RoverDom]

Personally I'd rather reform the major leagues as outlined above. Put salary caps in place etc and then maybe the likes of the SPL and the Dutch league with big names clubs could get somewhere close to being competitive. I'd rather not dismantle what little is left of the SPL by bringing them into England. 

 

[darrenrover]

21 minutes ago, roverandout said:

Not a chance.  Dont want any Scottish teams in the English league.  Don't even want the welsh ones. Keep our countries separate.  

That’s your opinion @roverandout, which you’re entitled to obviously.

I’d fight fire with fire and give these self imposed ‘big boys’ some competition and something to think about.

Some half cocked, ‘ Super League’ may be attractive to those in China, Thailand, USA and other far flung places but to those in football’s homeland, where clubs are part of the communities and are an integral part of the town/city/family heritage, there’ll be little or no interest.

I’d much rather be a Rover in these times than a Manc, Scouser or Cockney (naturally of course!)

WATR!!!

[Mattyblue]

At the Uefa Congress, Fifa president Gianni Infantino says his organisation "strongly disapprove" of a European Super League.

Yesterday we heard and read about war, crime, terrible worlds, even more terrible if linked with the game we all love, that should give joy to everyone," said Infantino.

"I am speaking about the [European] Super League project. Let me be extremely clear, Fifa is an organisation built on true values of sport, statutes which define institutional framework with the pyramid. 

"We can only and strongly disapprove of a Super League which is a closed shop, breakaway from current institutions."

 

Interesting, much stronger reaction from FIFA today than their slightly non-committal one yesterday...

Edited April 20, 2021 by Mattyblue

[den]

Strong and excellent words from Everton fc. I wish we had owners capable of there sentiments towards the history of football in this country.

https://www.evertonfc.com/news/2111866

I know this is a full cut and paste, but hopefully the mods will leave it untouched, but if not, that’s okay. I understand the rules.

Everton is saddened and disappointed to see proposals of a breakaway league pushed forward by six clubs.

Six clubs acting entirely in their own interests.

Six clubs tarnishing the reputation of our league and the game.

Six clubs choosing to disrespect every other club with whom they sit around the Premier League table.

Six clubs taking for granted and even betraying the majority of football supporters across our country and beyond.

At this time of national and international crisis - and a defining period for our game - clubs should be working together collaboratively with the ideals of our game and its supporters uppermost.

Instead, these clubs have been secretly conspiring to break away from a football pyramid that has served them so well.

And in that Pyramid Everton salutes EVERY club, be it Leicester City, Accrington Stanley, Gillingham, Lincoln City, Morecambe, Southend United, Notts County and the rest who have, with their very being, enriched the lives of their supporters throughout the game's history. And vice versa.

The self-proclaimed Super Six appear intent on disenfranchising supporters across the game - including their own - by putting the very structure that underpins the game we love under threat.

The backlash is understandable and deserved – and has to be listened to.

This preposterous arrogance is not wanted anywhere in football outside of the clubs that have drafted this plan.

On behalf of everyone associated with Everton, we respectfully ask that the proposals are immediately withdrawn and that the private meetings and subversive practises that have brought our beautiful game to possibly its lowest ever position in terms of trust end now.

Finally we would ask the owners, chairmen, and Board members of the six clubs to remember the privileged position they hold – not only as custodians of their clubs but also custodians of the game. The responsibility they carry should be taken seriously.

We urge them all to consider what they wish their legacy to be.

Everton FC Board of Directors

[darrenrover]

3 hours ago, dave birch said:

Darren, you were doing alright until " Invite Celtic and Rangers".

Best to let some English clubs move up the ladder. I'm sure they'll feel they've earned it.

Yeh, I know!

It was more of a ‘stick it up ‘em’ comment and knee jerk reaction.

I’d rather have a Mackhem and Pompey chimes than a Glaswegian!

I’ll get mi coat and don mi tin hat! 🤣💙🤍

[roverandout]

1 hour ago, darrenrover said:

That’s your opinion @roverandout, which you’re entitled to obviously.

I’d fight fire with fire and give these self imposed ‘big boys’ some competition and something to think about.

Some half cocked, ‘ Super League’ may be attractive to those in China, Thailand, USA and other far flung places but to those in football’s homeland, where clubs are part of the communities and are an integral part of the town/city/family heritage, there’ll be little or no interest.

I’d much rather be a Rover in these times than a Manc, Scouser or Cockney (naturally of course!)

WATR!!!

I would be up for going against these scummy 6. Just don't want any foreign clubs replacing them in an English league 

[Mike E]

New CL format sounds interesting, more match variety.

[darrenrover]

4 minutes ago, roverandout said:

I would be up for going against these scummy 6. Just don't want any foreign clubs replacing them in an English league 

Pompey and Mackems!👍

[Hasta]

2 hours ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

Spoke at length about this in a boozy Monday night. General consensus amongst the Villa / Blues / Baggies fans I drink with all wanted the 'Big 6' to go. Villa fans think they will benefit as a result and become a much bigger club.

Even if the money completely drained from the First Division (Premier League) people will still want to be footballers. If money leaves so does the demand from players / agents. Over time the business will do as business does and adapt and plateau at a level the finances determine.

The problem is the money would drain quickly and clubs would have to readjust quickly. If Villa's TV rights were halved over the next 2 years they would have serious financial problems and could well go bust. With the knock on effect as could Burnley, Rovers, Blackpool or Morecambe.

This has been rumoured for a while. Who is to say that the Sky / BT Sport, Bein Sport, Canal Sport etc.. TV contracts for the Premier don't have a clause saying that if any clubs walk away the contract can be re-negotiated.

If it goes ahead, the 12 become untouchably richer, some of the rest of the UK teams will sink to a more palatable financial level and some of the others will go bust.

@Wheelton Blue asks "I wonder what Burnley's owners are thinking" . Probably thinking that if this happens we can't get our money back, so do we cut our losses and pull the plug. Which may well be the same as Venkys and many, many other owners outside the big 5 and Spurs.

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Hasta

[perthblue02]

 

[Dreams of 1995]

4 minutes ago, Hasta said:

The problem is the money would drain quickly and clubs would have to readjust quickly. If Villa's TV rights were halved over the next 2 years they would have serious financial problems and could well go bust. With the knock on effect as could Burnley, Rovers, Blackpool or Morecambe.

This has been rumoured for a while. Who is to say that the Sky / BT Sport, Bein Sport, Canal Sport etc.. TV contracts for the Premier don't have a clause saying that if any clubs walk away the contract can be re-negotiated.

If it goes ahead, the 12 become untouchably richer, some of the rest of the UK teams will sink to a more palatable financial level and some of the others will go bust.

@Wheelton Blue asks "I wonder what Burnley's owners are thinking" . Probably thinking that if this happens we can't get our money back, so do we cut our losses and pull the plug. Which may well be the same as Venkys and many, many other owners outside the big 5 and Spurs.

 

The money draining doesn't affect anyone except the players, agents and coaches. If there is £65 million in the pot to spend they will fight for all £65 million; if there is £6 million they will fight for all of that. The alternative for them is that they get proper jobs in the real world and that isn't going to happen. You'd be a footballer over a bricklayer every day of the week.

If the 6 clubs can enter this Super League they cannot be allowed to compete in the Premier League. The revenue they generate from the Super League will make them financially untouchable in the Prem, and therefore the competitiveness of our domestic leagues will be called in to question. If other clubs cannot ever aspire to that level of prize money then what would be the point? 

The more I think about it there more I would want this "World Series of Football" to go ahead so we can get our game back. I understand the money will drain but at the end of the day we are all trying to pick up whatever crumbs this lot drops anyway. There are a lot of small clubs that would embrace the idea of these 6 dropping out of the football association.

In the short term there will be a lot of change - with owners like you describe calling it a day - but over time that financial disparity will plateau and providing it is supported and regulated the fans can take some control back of their clubs. People will still want to watch football and I think our domestic game might improve.

This is all idealistic though and doubt it will happen. I would feel very sorry for the fans of the big 6 but it is up to them to fight against it and show they don't want it. But the message should be clear: if they are allowed to enjoy the riches this ESL promises then they cannot be allowed to use that finance to fund a squad that is head and shoulders above everybody else in the league. The prize money has to be earned, not given each year so they can better predict their balance sheet.

[den]

 

[Hasta]

17 minutes ago, Dreams of 1995 said:

The money draining doesn't affect anyone except the players, agents and coaches. If there is £65 million in the pot to spend they will fight for all £65 million; if there is £6 million they will fight for all of that. The alternative for them is that they get proper jobs in the real world and that isn't going to happen. You'd be a footballer over a bricklayer every day of the week.

The point is many clubs will go under because of breakaway. Villa fans might think they will become a big club, but if their TV rights are slashed by 50% almost overnight how are they going to pay the ridiculous bills they currently have. Villa could be in as much financial jeopardy as Exeter over this. 

Do I want to see the Premier League kick them out. Damn right. But owners of all "non-elite" clubs are going to have to find some serious funding to cover black-holes over the next few years whilst the clubs become sustainable. 

Drawing up stumps on the 6 with no going back allows this European Super League to happen, and will be signalling the end for many football clubs in the UK. It's not a decision to be taken lightly.

Ultimately I feel one of two things will happen.

• Either the ESL goes ahead and the teams also remain in their domestic leagues, but a 'payment' is made from the ESL to the domestic leagues to allow them to take part, which funds the losses in TV rights.

• This is stopped and the current formats continue with tweaks, but the 'Super 12' clubs are then allowed a bigger share of the TV rights for the Premier League and the Champions League featuring themselves because they are the ones that more people are tuning in to watch.

Again, I'd love to banish the whole lot, but you have to be prepared for the collateral damage. 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by Hasta

[Dreams of 1995]

2 minutes ago, Hasta said:

The point is many clubs will go under because of breakaway. Villa fans might think they will become a big club, but if their TV rights are slashed by 50% almost overnight how are they going to pay the ridiculous bills they currently have. Villa could be in as much financial jeopardy as Exeter over this. 

Do I want to see the Premier League kick them out. Damn right. But owners of all "non-elite" clubs are going to have to find some serious funding to cover black-holes over the next few years whilst the clubs become sustainable. 

Drawing up stumps on the 6 with no going back allows this European Super League to happen, and will be signalling the end for many football clubs in the UK. It's not a decision to be taken lightly.

Ultimately I feel one of two things will happen.

• Either the ESL goes ahead and the teams also remain in their domestic leagues, but a 'payment' is made from the ESL to the domestic leagues to allow them to take part which funds the losses in TV rights.

• This is stopped and the current formats continue with tweaks, but the 'Super 12' clubs are then allowed a bigger share of the TV rights for the Premier League and the Champions League because they are the ones that more people are tuning in to watch.

Again, I'd love to banish the whole lot but you have to be prepared for the collateral damage. 

 

I would suspect some form of government legislation or agreement between the clubs and players would have to be sought. The issue is whether Sky can reneg on their contractural agreements. If they can and the TV rights money drops then simply those contracts will have to be torn up. I know there is more complexity to what I am saying but I don't think we will see mass bankruptcy.

These football organisations have to realise their time is up. Uefa, Fifa and the FA have all contributed to this greed taking over the game. It is now up to them to put an end to it all. The current model is unsustainable, with players demanding 500k a week becoming a regular news story. It cannot be allowed to go on like this even if this ESL does not go ahead.

A total reset could come of this and unfortunately the players may have to take a financial hit because their contracts are not realistic to their worth once you take away the incredible amounts of money donated by TV.