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[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, DE. said:

To be honest I was expecting Firefly Funhouse to have taken a turn for the worse by now, but by the sounds of it the entire concept and production has been left to Bray and some people he's working with. No VKM fingerprints and it shows, as it's the best thing on Raw every week without fail. Nothing on that segment is run into the ground, every week it's something new and fresh. Other than "YOWIE WOWIE", which is pretty funny, nothing is rehashed or repeated. It's going to suck when Bray returns to Raw and finds himself neutered and ruined again by Vince and the creative team. 

I can't believe they teased Brock cashing in his MITB briefcase for THREE WEEKS and failed to deliver in all of them. Another example of running something into the ground with bad results. That shit should have been done and dusted by the second week, cash in or not.

Oh, and I've just thought of another peeve. Shane McMahon as a wrestler. Just stop already. He's an entertaining promo and I wouldn't be against him competing in one-off matches where he gets A LOT of help from outside to try and compete, but trying to make him out to be on the same level as normal wrestlers over recent years has just been pathetic. The WM match with the Undertaker was the worst example of this, but in every match his punches look ridiculous, his wrestling skills are adequate at best and he's blown up and turning purple after a couple of minutes. I can't take any match with Shane in seriously. 

Firefly Funhouse is interesting, but it will inevitably be ruined for a finish. They will probably have him lose pretty soon after re-debuting 

As for Brock not cashing in for 3 weekas, I think they are going to run with this "will he/won't he" stuff for another 6 months 

I know, it's stupid. Shane and his rotating gang of goons, no backstory, no contingency. It's WWE all over. 

[DE.]

Theoretically the cash in is on Friday at Super Showdown (don't even get me started on these odious Saudi Arabia events), but nothing big or memorable ever really happens on these shows, Titus WorldSlide aside, so I'd be surprised if Brock actually cashed in and won the belt.

Another thing I don't understand is the obsession Vince seems to have with Baron Corbin. He's good in certain roles but he is NOT a main event player, yet for so long now he's been pushed as one of the centre pieces of the show, regularly appearing in main events. Also, if he's now back to being a normal wrestler WHY IS HE STILL WEARING HIS GENERAL MANAGER ATTIRE? It looks terrible and makes no sense. It's a small thing, but the same time a perfect example of how logic and continuity just has no place in current WWE. They have no idea what they're doing. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

This whole planned cash in thing ruins everything good about the MITB concept. Ya, the Saudi shows are plain wrong. Blood money whatever way they try and dress it up. Like who needs to see the Undertaker V Goldberg now? They will probably have The Undertake V Sting at some point. 

Absolutely, Corbin is bland, yet being pushed in various heel roles, many times with no back story or explanation. They had Drew Mcintyre  destroy the shield for a few weeks, next thing that's over and he is now playing "goon number 1" in Shane McMahons gang. Then occasionally they put McIntyre, Corbin and Lashley together with no explanation other than they are "baddies". Lashley could just show up as a face then next week, with no explanation and that will be his new shtick. Where is Lio Rush actually? I thought he had something, interesting ring style and confident on the mic. 

[DE.]

The Saudis still seem to think it's the 1990s as all they care about are the wrestlers from that era. At the first show they requested Yokozuna, who's been dead for nearly 20 years. That's why WWE had that random sumo guy appear in the Greatest Royal Rumble - close enough, I guess. How WWE can possibly mesh with Islamic culture I don't know. I can't think of two things that are more opposite, but hey, it's religion so I suppose hypocrisy is a given.

Ah yeah, the good old "put all the baddies together" shtick. Not because they're part of a stable or have mutual goals, but just because they're so eeeeevil and evil people apparently gravitate towards each other to concoct even more evil schemes. Of course. With that said, I've felt for a while that WWE is basically written for children, and this concept in that context makes sense. It's just weird because some segments and characters are obviously not meant for children. Randy and Triple H talking about each other's balls this week wasn't exactly PG. WWE is stuck at this weird halfway point where they have to try and appeal to both audiences and it just doesn't work. 

As for Lio Rush, dead in the water. He's got a lot of heat backstage, basically another Enzo Amore but the sounds of it. Doubt he'll be seen again. 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, DE. said:

The Saudis still seem to think it's the 1990s as all they care about are the wrestlers from that era. At the first show they requested Yokozuna, who's been dead for nearly 20 years. That's why WWE had that random sumo guy appear in the Greatest Royal Rumble - close enough, I guess. How WWE can possibly mesh with Islamic culture I don't know. I can't think of two things that are more opposite, but hey, it's religion so I suppose hypocrisy is a given.

Ah yeah, the good old "put all the baddies together" shtick. Not because they're part of a stable or have mutual goals, but just because they're so eeeeevil and evil people apparently gravitate towards each other to concoct even more evil schemes. Of course. With that said, I've felt for a while that WWE is basically written for children, and this concept in that context makes sense. It's just weird because some segments and characters are obviously not meant for children. Randy and Triple H talking about each other's balls this week wasn't exactly PG. WWE is stuck at this weird halfway point where they have to try and appeal to both audiences and it just doesn't work. 

As for Lio Rush, dead in the water. He's got a lot of heat backstage, basically another Enzo Amore but the sounds of it. Doubt he'll be seen again. 

 

Indeed. A brand split where Raw targets an adult audience and Smackdown a kids audience would be a good idea I think. At the moment they have 2 confused brands where ,as you say, one scene is for kids, whereas the next isn't. It comes across as confused and clunky. 

[DE.]

In fairness Vince has always preferred the PG, kid-friendly product. He only briefly broke away from that in the mid-to-late 90s because the company was going down the toilet and they had no choice but to adapt or be left behind. As soon as WCW died the product began morphing back to PG, but the non-PG era had left behind too big of a legacy and fanbase to completely dismiss it. So ever since then we've been left with a product that doesn't really know which audience it wants to target and so just alternates between both. 

I expect AEW's target audience is going to be the older, smarter fans. If they become "cool" that way then kids will follow, as at the end of the day kids want to watch what their older siblings are watching. Their perception of what is cool is usually fuelled by what people older than them find cool. WWE is definitely not in that bracket. AEW could be. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

As for Lio Rush, waste of talent. He would never do much in WWE anyway due to his size, but it seemed they were pushing him a bit. 

I wouldn't be surprised if the next ones to jump ship were; Rush, Luke Harper, Sasha Banks and the Revival. 

That "thing" a few weeks ago between the Usos and the Revival and the "back shaving story line" was pathetic even by WWE standards. It made the Revival come across as stupid and the Usos dislikeable. I can just imagine Vince laughing at it.  Like I know it's for kids, but don't take a bottle from your rivals with "Uce juice" or some similar nonsense written on the bottle. The Revival could have been great, but the way they were treated as champions, particularly after waiting so long to get the belts, showed everything wrong with the WWE. 

[DE.]

What's funny (and so typical of WWE) is that they've been totally schizophrenic about The Revival situation. They try to entice them by giving them the tag titles when they refuse to sign a new contract, but then do the usual of having them lose multiple non-title matches as champions and basically be treated like a joke. Unsurprisingly Dash and Dawson say fuck this and still refuse to sign a new contract. Vince gets pissed and decides to bury them. OK. Not the first time it's happened, just the usual childish, petty shit from Vince and his cronies. You get the back shaving, ucey hot, insinuations that they are gay, etc. Yet now all of a sudden two weeks ago they beat the Usos, and this week they helped McIntyre beat Reigns & the Usos, now apparently being presented as a genuine threat again. 

It sounds like it was pretty much the same with Dean Ambrose. Their original plan, which they started going through, was to bury him by having Nia Jax go over him in a program. Yet for some reason they decided to change direction and even though Ambrose lost quite often on the way out, he was still treated pretty well for a guy leaving the company, and even beat an up-and-comer in EC3 (who is now being buried for not getting a reaction against Ambrose, LOLWWE) as well as having a decent last run with Reigns/Rollins as The Shield. 

Oh btw, one other thing I noticed on Raw - no Electric Chair segment. It was a stupid idea anyway, but it's so LOLWWE to drop it after just one week. I guess they could bring it back sporadically but I get the feeling that's the last we've seen of it. I didn't even understand why it was an electric chair. There was no electric shocking involved or indeed even suggested, so what was the point? 

Edited June 5, 2019 by DE.

[Bigdoggsteel]

15 minutes ago, DE. said:

What's funny (and so typical of WWE) is that they've been totally schizophrenic about The Revival situation. They try to entice them by giving them the tag titles when they refuse to sign a new contract, but then do the usual of having them lose multiple non-title matches as champions and basically be treated like a joke. Unsurprisingly Dash and Dawson say fuck this and still refuse to sign a new contract. Vince gets pissed and decides to bury them. OK. Not the first time it's happened, just the usual childish, petty shit from Vince and his cronies. You get the back shaving, ucey hot, insinuations that they are gay, etc. Yet now all of a sudden two weeks ago they beat the Usos, and this week they helped McIntyre beat Reigns & the Usos, now apparently being presented as a genuine threat again. 

It sounds like it was pretty much the same with Dean Ambrose. Their original plan, which they started going through, was to bury him by having Nia Jax go over him in a program. Yet for some reason they decided to change direction and even though Ambrose lost quite often on the way out, he was still treated pretty well for a guy leaving the company, and even beat an up-and-comer in EC3 (who is now being buried for not getting a reaction against Ambrose, LOLWWE) as well as having a decent last run with Reigns/Rollins as The Shield. 

Oh btw, one other thing I noticed on Raw - no Electric Chair segment. It was a stupid idea anyway, but it's so LOLWWE to drop it after just one week. I guess they could bring it back sporadically but I get the feeling that's the last we've seen of it. I didn't even understand why it was an electric chair. There was no electric shocking involved or indeed even suggested, so what was the point? 

It was a stupid segment because they would never ask the questions people want asked. Even kids left to ask themselves would ask more insisive questions. 

The organisation is confused in pretty much everything it does. 

Sweet jesus imagine Brock does win the title at SSD. That will be grim. They should come up with some way for him not to win after cashing in, perhaps with the new day helping Kofi or Reigns and a new shield member helping Rollins. You could give a guy some push by putting him in the shield. They would probably pick someone silly though. Personally I would go with Buddy Murphy. If they went heel shield at some point, I think Samoa Joe would be an interesting addition. They will probably go with a face shield and Randy Orton as the 3rd member, someone who doesn't need the push and is not a good face.

I mean if Brock wins, what is the plan for the year? Same old, same old. They could really pair Heyman with someone new at this stage too. A Finn Balor heel turn would be good. Never going to happen though. He's a cash cow as a bland face, who occasionally and with no explanation turns into a demon. I think they could do some interesting stuff with Heyman and the demon stuff. Even Braun would be better than Brock at this stage. 

 

 

Edited June 5, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Mike E]

Calling it now:

Brock shouting ‘Friday’, isn’t a reference to cashing in at Super Showdown. It’s a reference to cashing in at the first Friday Night Smackdown on Fox in a few months time.

It’d be the most WWE thing ever.

[Mike E]

I just hope to God that the 4 red stars (with six points) for AEW All Out really are a reference to CM Punk.

AEW currently boasts the world’s best wrestler (Omega), the world’s best tag team (Young Bucks), the world’s best-known innovative character wrestler (Jericho), the hottest thing in wrestling (Moxley), and could well be welcoming one of this centuries most natural promos (Punk).

WWE’s seeming lack of reaction is a bit disturbing. The stupid wildcard rule has just pushed so many wonderful talents off the card entirely this week: Bryan, Rusev, Nakamura, Murphy.

Yet I still watch...

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 hours ago, Mike E said:

I just hope to God that the 4 red stars (with six points) for AEW All Out really are a reference to CM Punk.

AEW currently boasts the world’s best wrestler (Omega), the world’s best tag team (Young Bucks), the world’s best-known innovative character wrestler (Jericho), the hottest thing in wrestling (Moxley), and could well be welcoming one of this centuries most natural promos (Punk).

WWE’s seeming lack of reaction is a bit disturbing. The stupid wildcard rule has just pushed so many wonderful talents off the card entirely this week: Bryan, Rusev, Nakamura, Murphy.

Yet I still watch...

I don't see how Punk can come back after the shaming he got in UFC. All his opponent will do is bring it up in their promo.

How can he be booked to look good after what happened? 

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I don't see how Punk can come back after the shaming he got in UFC. All his opponent will do is bring it up in their promo.

How can he be booked to look good after what happened? 

Same way many failed MMA fighters do well in wrestling, by being great characters.

In fairness, most wrestling fans I know would absolutely pop for Punk and not particularly care about his UFC record. Most don’t seem to care about Brock’s record, or Swagger’s, or Barrett’s, or Del Rio’s either.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Mike E said:

Same way many failed MMA fighters do well in wrestling, by being great characters.

In fairness, most wrestling fans I know would absolutely pop for Punk and not particularly care about his UFC record. Most don’t seem to care about Brock’s record, or Swagger’s, or Barrett’s, or Del Rio’s either.

It's not the same though. 

Brock has a great MMA record, so nobody could say anything. He was the heavyweight champion.

Swagger is only getting started in MMA and has won 2 out of 2

Wade Barrett? I didn't even know he did MMA. 

In fairness Del Rio has a mixed record, but at least he won a few fights. More than he lost. 

Punk was humiliated. I can't see how he can come out and give it the tough guy in promos. I am sure some fans wouldn't care, but I think some will. 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Who are your top 3 wrestlers ever? If I was to pick the top 3 as in who I enjoyed watching the most, at any time, it would be the following. I didn't have sky to watch the attitude era too much, so I was big into WCW. After that then it was probably TNA during the early days. My WWE watching was mostly done in the 80s. I have caught up on a lot of ECW since it aired. 

1.  Scott Steiner- Simply, just a bad ass. Looked tough, talked tough on the mic. Hit guys hard. Music was bad ass. I loved his run as US champ in WCW, along with his world title run. His older stuff before he became a "genetic freak", was probably even more impressive from a wrestling point of view. Some of him and Ricks matches would stand up nowadays. I saw a clip on Youtube of him giving an opponent a standing back flip bodyslam. He was dicked around in WWE and ended up being buried by HHH in his mass grave. Steiner was to blame a bit himself as he looked very rusty and out of shape, I still think he would have had to let HHH go over regardless, so he maybe this is why he didn't give it his best shot. He was good in TNA as well, if clearly past his prime in the ring. His promo there on his match with Angle and Samoa Joe is one of the best ever. 
2. WCW Jericho- The best cocky heel ever. He was hilarious and excellent in the ring. Great feuds with Dean Malenko and Psychosis. 
3. Terry Funk- I usually hate deathmatch stuff as I find it gross, but there is something about Funk that I always really liked. Just a rugged old scrapper who would keep getting up. Always danced to his own beat.

Honorable mentions; Ric Flair, the GOAT. I think he transcends "lists". Whoooo! 

[Miller11]

1. Rick Rude. The ultimate heel. Every major feud he had was really memorable. 100% believable in the ring, and being managed by Heenan always helps.

2. Scott Hall. Big nWo fan, and Hall was the workhorse of the top tier of the group. Underrated as a worker even during his Razor run.

3. Jake Roberts. Intense, one of the best promos ever, no wasted motion, equally superb as a face or heel.

Honourable mentions: Kurt Angle, The Rock, Bobby Eaton, Regal, Steiner, Booker T

 

Current top 3:

Samoa Joe, Zack Gibson, MJF

[Bigdoggsteel]

Just now, Miller11 said:

1. Rick Rude. The ultimate heel. Every major feud he had was really memorable. 100% believable in the ring, and being managed by Heenan always helps.

2. Scott Hall. Big nWo fan, and Hall was the workhorse of the top tier of the group. Underrated as a worker even during his Razor run.

3. Jake Roberts. Intense, one of the best promos ever, no wasted motion, equally superb as a face or heel.

Honourable mentions: Kurt Angle, The Rock, Bobby Eaton, Regal, Steiner, Booker T

 

Current top 3:

Samoa Joe, Zack Gibson, MJF

Great list. 

I could have put any of those 3 in my list. Rick Rude like seriously, what a heel. The trousers with his own face on them alone are enough to be on the list ?

Hall was great and probably under rated. Crazy he never won a world title, but I suppose he was probably his own worst enemy in that regard. Still, he should have won it once. 

Jake the snake should have won the world title from hogan, but in that era it was difficult for heels to win the belt. It was hard enough for faces with hogan around. When fans didn't fully understand the workings, a heel like Roberts could have outraged people. The attitude era would have been perfect for him. 

 

[Bigdoggsteel]

I loved Samoa Joe in TNA. Cristian cage too, he played a great chicken shit heel. My lack of wwe watching before that meant I wasn't 100% sure it was Cristian from Edge and Cristian.  I did lose interest in wrestling for around a decade, but I'm catching up! 

Another honourable mention is Jeff Hardy 

Edited June 7, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[Bigdoggsteel]

Going to go full Irish here, but what do ye think of Seamus? He has had some career, but it's safe to say he is a firm company man now. Just needs the intercontinental title for the grand slam. He is a good pro, but someone in wwe took a big liking to him. 

Balor is a bit pathetic now I think. Handsome guy who smiles is his role. He's a great performer, but I don't see him ever getting the universal title back. Ever. They should have had him go over Lesner as the demon. I mean, it is a show and he is over as fuck. They had him turn demon for the first time in ages for a, I think, lower PPV or possibly even Raw or Smackdown match against Corbin. I mean seriously. 

[Miller11]

14 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Going to go full Irish here, but what do ye think of Seamus? He has had some career, but it's safe to say he is a firm company man now. Just needs the intercontinental title for the grand slam. He is a good pro, but someone in wwe took a big liking to him. 

Balor is a bit pathetic now I think. Handsome guy who smiles is his role. He's a great performer, but I don't see him ever getting the universal title back. Ever. They should have had him go over Lesner as the demon. I mean, it is a show and he is over as fuck. They had him turn demon for the first time in ages for a, I think, lower PPV or possibly even Raw or Smackdown match against Corbin. I mean seriously. 

Big fan of Sheamus. I’d have liked to have seen him have a longer run as heel champ and a top guy, but I think the way his career has gone is typical of the times. I think he’d have really excelled if he’d have been 5 years earlier. That said, his career has been stellar, and his recent run with Cesar showed how good but undervalued the pair of them are. Workout buddy of HHH apparently, which I think has helped cement him as a company man for life, rather than Wade Barrett for example.

I loved Prince Devitt, but I can’t get anywhere near as interested in Finn Balor, particularly these days. The injuries certainly haven’t helped, but I think he was a better fit outside WWE... The buzz around bullet club seems so long ago, and it’s weird to think he was tearing it up in Preston for PCW just 5 years ago.

[Mike E]

Obviously I’m a touch younger than you guys.

My WWE love is from 2000 onwards, and I always used to put stock in what made me laugh:

1. Rock

2. Jericho

3. Stone Cold

Knowing what I know now in terms of the history of wrestling, and watching old episodes of Raw in full, and appreciating just how much goes into a wrestler:

1. Foley

2. Jericho

3. Bryan

I think the ability to reinvent your character is so underrated in wrestling. It’s like ‘getting over’ several times!

[Miller11]

Just watched the last few matches of Super Showdown.

HHH v Orton - dull, decent ending.

Kofi v Ziggler - decent enough

Lashley v Braun - didn’t pay much attention

Battle Royal - great moment and crowd reaction with the winner... otherwise typical battle Royal fare

Goldberg v Taker - started off well, by the end I was genuinely worried for both their safety. Lucky someone wasn’t badly hurt

[DE.]

My God that Undertaker/Goldberg match was bad. It started off okay, save for that TERRIBLE kneebar Goldberg attempted, but as soon as Goldberg ran into the corner and busted himself open the match fell apart. I think he might have legit smashed his head and concussed himself. If not then, he almost certainly did when Taker managed to botch the tombstone and dropped Goldberg on his fucking head. Jesus Christ. Then Goldberg nearly drops Taker on his head with the botched Jackhammer.

So, so sad to watch. Taker looked both incredibly pissed off and majorly disappointed afterwards. That was really brutal. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

Ya, I watched the "highlights" on twitter. Christ, give it up lads. 

[DE.]

Undertaker "liked" an instagram post that lambasted WWE for putting those two out there at 50+ years old each, and telling them to let Taker retire in peace. Have to think that's the last time Taker will allow himself to be put into a position like that. With the right opponent he's still a passable showpiece attraction, but he needs to be looked after. So many things about that match were wrong. For a start I can't believe they expected those two to go out there and perform a 10 minute plus match in that heat. Goldberg was barely able to wrestle more than three minutes in his prime, let alone now and in those conditions. Undertaker is so broken down he can barely walk. 

As soon as they realised Goldberg was concussed the match should have ended. It was obvious as soon as he hit that turnbuckle and started bleeding that something was badly wrong. It sucks but the match should have been ended there and then. Instead they let it continue and both Goldberg and Taker nearly got seriously hurt because of it. Really disgusting behaviour from WWE, but considering where the show was taking place, I guess that's a given with this company. How anybody thought the reverse tombstone spot at the end was a good idea was beyond me. Goldberg had already botched his jackhammer and didn't tuck his head in for the tombstone, smashing his head and neck on the canvas, so who thought it was a good idea to continue with the reverse tombstone spot? How could they have thought that would work? It would have been difficult even if neither man was injured, let alone in the state they were in. I don't blame Taker as he'd just been dumped on his head from the botched jackhammer and was clearly still groggy, but the ref or somebody in gorilla should have called an audible there. Terrible decision making all around. An embarrassing night for WWE all around, but that match in particular was just horrendous on so many levels.