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[Miller11]

Those couple of early spears should have done it. If they were that desperate for Undertaker to go over then he should have slapped Hells Gate on... would have actually looked good with the blood pissing from his head!

They were both visibly struggling with basic movement, never mind anything resembling a power move. You could see Goldberg slipping through Takers grasp on the tombstone. Undertaker can’t kick his legs up enough for a jackhammer, and he’s too big and Goldberg far too knackered by that point to use enough brute force. 

Goldberg is no doubt going to take the majority of the flak, but Undertaker was no less culpable. The majority of the blame needs to go to whoever allowed it to happen in the first place though.

[DE.]

Yep, neither of them were ready for anything other than a couple of minutes. A few spears, a chokeslam, snake eyes, old school, a jackhammer... enough. All anybody really wanted to see was the power moves and finishers anyway. Goldberg should have gone over as he has way more mileage in him than Taker at this point. He's still in incredible shape and his promo skills nowadays are far better than Undertaker's - which is surprising considering before he returned in 2016 his promos had always been garbage. Not sure what happened during his time away from wrestling but Goldberg is a much better promo now than he was in his heyday.

It feels like last night kind of ruined whatever mystique Goldberg had left though. It's going to be tough to come back from that. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

I haven't read or heard anything concrete, but it looked to me like Goldberg stubbornly tried to continue when he shouldn't have. 

Goldberg should have went over for sure though. That match definitely tainted his legacy a bit. I wouldn't be surprised if he wanted to go once  ore to end on a high note. 

The matches need to be short and sweet. Like I mean expecting 2 guys in their 50s to go and pull off those moves, in that heat, was always a risk. The undertaker doesn't look in great shape and what weight is Goldberg, 120kg? At least. That is very heavy for a guy in his prime to be lifting, let alone an extremely part time guy in his mid 50s. 

But it's such good shit!!!! 

Edited June 9, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel

[DE.]

It's SO THEM PAL.

Seriously though, if Goldberg was concussed then he wouldn't have been thinking clearly. He was probably just trying to focus on keeping himself mobile, let alone whether he should call an audible on the match itself. That's exactly why other people are around to make those decisions. I can remember in 2013 a match between Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton was stopped because Bryan suffered a stinger during the match and Triple H made the call to end the match before the finish. Bryan was furious afterwards, but it was absolutely the right decision.

What was the difference at Super Showdown, other than the Saudis wanting their money's worth? You can't make these types of decisions based on money or whether it's a PPV main event. If somebody is seriously injured the match should be stopped immediately, no matter what. Goldberg could have been paralysed or worse from that botched tombstone, and the same for Taker when Goldberg botched the jackhammer. That all happened after Goldberg was quite obviously concussed and WWE would have endured an absolute shitstorm should anything really bad have happened. It's only through pure luck that both Goldberg and Undertaker are okay, and it didn't have to be down to luck. It shouldn't have been down to luck. 

WWE will get away with this, like they always do, but if the Saudi event in general didn't make them look bad enough, allowing the main event to continue with one of the competitors clearly concussed really shows how rotten the core of that company is.

[Vinjay]

Hard to judge people if they are concussed. Not the best at breaking down matches but I knew something was odd after the chokeslam ended it. My ending would have been Hell's Gate for the victory. Wasn't certain that Undertaker would win incase of a rematch but pretty obvious that won't be happening now. Goldberg looked like he was in good shape (he's never had long matches anyway) and even if Undertaker is broken down he's still better than most of the roster. If anything that's embarrassing for them or maybe it's not as the Undertaker has such presence alone it's hard to top. Undertaker's probably more likely to wrestle again so it makes total sense to give him the win without any rematch. I was slightly concerned as Goldberg's been sloppy in the past but it looks like Undertaker's OK. Goldberg was the one concussed of course but that didn't appear to be Undertaker's fault and Goldberg didn't "tuck his head" for the tombstone so who's fault is that? Perhaps if he was already concussed that's why but there's moves far more dangerous than the Tombstone which are allowed.

People will moan about no women's matches, etc but I still can't think of any that stand out much anyway. I'm no fan of toplists (lazy journalism) but none are in my top 500 that's for sure. Anyone moaning about that can explain why they don't watch Rovers women. It's not like I have issues with women's wrestling for most part (trish, lita and of course Chyna wouldn't have had issues being used on my shows) but none of the current bunch really stand out. Neither do the men really skipped most of the show as I was bored after a couple of matches. I certainly don't mind HHH wrestling (or Orton who has presence and a good finisher) but had a feeling it might be lengthy as Undertaker/Goldberg wasn't expected to go long. 

Likes of Observer readers lost their opportunity to get on their "high horse" when they voted to keep wife/child murderers in their HOF (granted a large number voted against as well) primarily because he was their workrate darling. Beyond that there seems to be no real backlash and it only became publicised last time to such an extent because of the journalist being killed so soon before. Do the same people taking issue with WWE take such issue with the World Cup being in Qatar or so many other business relations with Saudi Arabia in general? Not as much it seems for certain people. The World Cup in Russia was a success (suppose some people would see it that way just because England nearly reached the final) perhaps Qatar will surprise as well. AEW aren't in a position yet to attract such money (no reason either really from Saudi point of view since they already have WWE) but you really think they wouldn't have taken it? Many people are guilty of hypocrisy and double standards (including myself in some cases unless you want to go and be a missionary or something like that who isn't?) and that's the case here.

Edited June 9, 2019 by Vinjay17

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

It's SO THEM PAL.

Seriously though, if Goldberg was concussed then he wouldn't have been thinking clearly. He was probably just trying to focus on keeping himself mobile, let alone whether he should call an audible on the match itself. That's exactly why other people are around to make those decisions. I can remember in 2013 a match between Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton was stopped because Bryan suffered a stinger during the match and Triple H made the call to end the match before the finish. Bryan was furious afterwards, but it was absolutely the right decision.

What was the difference at Super Showdown, other than the Saudis wanting their money's worth? You can't make these types of decisions based on money or whether it's a PPV main event. If somebody is seriously injured the match should be stopped immediately, no matter what. Goldberg could have been paralysed or worse from that botched tombstone, and the same for Taker when Goldberg botched the jackhammer. That all happened after Goldberg was quite obviously concussed and WWE would have endured an absolute shitstorm should anything really bad have happened. It's only through pure luck that both Goldberg and Undertaker are okay, and it didn't have to be down to luck. It shouldn't have been down to luck. 

WWE will get away with this, like they always do, but if the Saudi event in general didn't make them look bad enough, allowing the main event to continue with one of the competitors clearly concussed really shows how rotten the core of that company is.

I'm thinking they called an audible, but Goldberg didn't want to go with it. Maybe I am wrong, but if they didn't call one, which is possible, it's just crazy stuff. 

I think this story will run 

[DE.]

3 hours ago, Vinjay17 said:

Hard to judge people if they are concussed. Not the best at breaking down matches but I knew something was odd after the chokeslam ended it. My ending would have been Hell's Gate for the victory. Wasn't certain that Undertaker would win incase of a rematch but pretty obvious that won't be happening now. Goldberg looked like he was in good shape (he's never had long matches anyway) and even if Undertaker is broken down he's still better than most of the roster. If anything that's embarrassing for them or maybe it's not as the Undertaker has such presence alone it's hard to top. Undertaker's probably more likely to wrestle again so it makes total sense to give him the win without any rematch. I was slightly concerned as Goldberg's been sloppy in the past but it looks like Undertaker's OK. Goldberg was the one concussed of course but that didn't appear to be Undertaker's fault and Goldberg didn't "tuck his head" for the tombstone so who's fault is that? Perhaps if he was already concussed that's why but there's moves far more dangerous than the Tombstone which are allowed.

They should have ended it at the botched tombstone. Goldberg obviously kicked out on instinct, knowing the match wasn't meant to end there, but somebody should probably have called an audible and ended the match at that point. 

A few years ago I'd agree with you on Taker, but not now. He's seriously broken down and none of his recent matches have been good, in fact they've been outright dangerous at times. The last good match he had was probably with Brock at WM30. He should have stuck to his retirement at that event. I wouldn't even say character-wise Taker is that interesting anymore. He comes out and cuts the same old "rest in peace" promo and has a staredown with his opponent, sometimes with teleporting involved. That's about it. Except with Wyatt and Cena where he just didn't show up at all until WM, meaning the "feud" was carried entirely by one person. It's just not worth it anymore. 

3 hours ago, Vinjay17 said:

People will moan about no women's matches, etc but I still can't think of any that stand out much anyway. I'm no fan of toplists (lazy journalism) but none are in my top 500 that's for sure. Anyone moaning about that can explain why they don't watch Rovers women. It's not like I have issues with women's wrestling for most part (trish, lita and of course Chyna wouldn't have had issues being used on my shows) but none of the current bunch really stand out. Neither do the men really skipped most of the show as I was bored after a couple of matches. I certainly don't mind HHH wrestling (or Orton who has presence and a good finisher) but had a feeling it might be lengthy as Undertaker/Goldberg wasn't expected to go long. 

There have been some fantastic women's matches in recent years, although not so much recently. People weren't moaning about there just being a lack of women's wrestling, anyway, it's the fact that on these shows the women don't even have the opportunity to perform. It's ridiculously hypocritical for WWE to push their "women's (r)evolution" so hard and then do shows in countries where women are treated like dirt - especially with the first Saudi show being a disgusting propaganda-fest. If you're going to go all in with PR over your female empowerment (which is long overdue in WWE anyway) then you should rightly expect backlash when you do these kinds of shows. They made a rod for their own back with this one I'm afraid. What's strange is that they seemed to think they were going to get the go ahead to put on a women's match, as they flew Alexa Bliss and Natalya out to Saudi Arabia, but when they got there they were told no. 

Interestingly when the women's matches for Stomping Ground came up on the screen you could hear the Saudi crowd cheering loudly, so they clearly want to see women's wrestling even if their backwards government won't allow it. 

3 hours ago, Vinjay17 said:

Do the same people taking issue with WWE take such issue with the World Cup being in Qatar or so many other business relations with Saudi Arabia in general? 

They probably do. I've certainly been highly critical of both. AEW haven't made a statement either way so there's no point bringing them into the discussion at this juncture, but I guarantee if they did sign a deal with Saudi Arabia they'd receive the same level of criticism from their fans. Probably more, actually, as it would be a much more hardcore audience who are watching AEW precisely because they aren't WWE and expect higher standards. Should AEW go the WWE route I'm sure they'll lose a lot of fans in the process.

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I'm thinking they called an audible, but Goldberg didn't want to go with it. Maybe I am wrong, but if they didn't call one, which is possible, it's just crazy stuff. 

I think this story will run 

There was an audible called for the finish (you can hear Taker say to Goldberg "stay down"), but I don't think it was called before then. Taker was definitely asking the ref on more than one occasion if Goldberg was OK. There's a point just after the turnbuckle spot where Taker raises his hand for a chokeslam, but Goldberg falls back into the ropes. You can see Taker looking concerned for a second, and the ref ask "are you alright, Bill?" ... at which point Goldberg obviously said he was alright and the match continued. That's the moment they should have said enough and called for it to end. Unfortunately they didn't, so instead we got the botched tombstone, the botched jackhammer, the botched tombstone reversal and the worst chokeslam ever. 

[Miller11]

This 5 minutes of TV is infinitely better than anything WWE have put out in years!

[DE.]

Honestly you could post practically anything from the 90s through to the mid-00s and it would almost certainly be more entertaining than the shit that gets served up by WWE on Mondays and Tuesdays. 

Raw posted a 1.54 rating this week, which I believe is the lowest in modern history outside of holiday shows. TNA was getting 1.4/1,5 very briefly when they switched to Mondays, so it's now that bad. 

[Miller11]

1 hour ago, DE. said:

Honestly you could post practically anything from the 90s through to the mid-00s and it would almost certainly be more entertaining than the shit that gets served up by WWE on Mondays and Tuesdays. 

Raw posted a 1.54 rating this week, which I believe is the lowest in modern history outside of holiday shows. TNA was getting 1.4/1,5 very briefly when they switched to Mondays, so it's now that bad. 

Wow, I hadn’t seen that they had slipped that low. I wonder how bad things would have to get for the TV networks to do something drastic? I am not certain of how their deals are structured, but there could come a point where they decide enough is enough and cancel it. Wrestling was traditionally seen as cheap programming for networks, but those days are long gone. They have paid top dollar and I’m sure they are alarmed at those viewing figures.

[DE.]

49 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

Wow, I hadn’t seen that they had slipped that low. I wonder how bad things would have to get for the TV networks to do something drastic? I am not certain of how their deals are structured, but there could come a point where they decide enough is enough and cancel it. Wrestling was traditionally seen as cheap programming for networks, but those days are long gone. They have paid top dollar and I’m sure they are alarmed at those viewing figures.

I don't think FOX have much wriggle room in their WWE agreement. As far as I've read that's 5 years of guaranteed mega cash for WWE no matter what happens.

As for Raw and USA Network, if it was regularly dipping below 1.5 you have to imagine the situation would start to become untenable. Apparently USA have already been meddling due to alarm over the current ratings slump, and the stupid 24/7 title was their idea. If that's the best they've got they're probably better off leaving it alone.

[Mike E]

13 hours ago, DE. said:

I don't think FOX have much wriggle room in their WWE agreement. As far as I've read that's 5 years of guaranteed mega cash for WWE no matter what happens.

As for Raw and USA Network, if it was regularly dipping below 1.5 you have to imagine the situation would start to become untenable. Apparently USA have already been meddling due to alarm over the current ratings slump, and the stupid 24/7 title was their idea. If that's the best they've got they're probably better off leaving it alone.

It comes to something when the genuinely awful idea of the 24/7 title is one of the only things I actually enjoy (R Truth is doing well with it imo, in the spirit of Crash Holly), the other thing being Firefly Funhouse.

The stupid wildcard idea has killed both shows. The same 10 people dominating 5 hours per week is booooriiiiiing.

[DE.]

The reason the 24/7 title is enjoyable, other than R-Truth just being entertaining in anything, is because it's different from the same old shit served up across the rest of the show. It's the same with the Firefly Funhouse - it's like being given a sip of water after walking through a desert for a few hours. As you correctly say, everything else is insanely boring now. Raw has been boring for literally years but the wildcard rule has ruined Smackdown. Granted Smackdown never returned to the level it was at during the second half of 2016 and early 2017, but it's always been better than Raw - if only because it's two hours rather than three. Since the wildcard rule was introduced Smackdown is now just an extended version of Raw, essentially, with THE BIG DAWG and Shane McMahon all over both shows. 

I still can't believe that WWE have already managed to book Reigns so badly that some people are beginning to boo him again. Their booking is so bad that fans are booing a cancer survivor. Meanwhile Shane McMahon, who was very recently one of the most over characters in the company, is now getting chants of "boring", "CM Punk" and "AEW" during his promos. Very good job.

[Bigdoggsteel]

AEW have a new show on youtube building up to their next PPV. Episode 2 had promos from Joey Janela and Darby Allin. Both were better than anything wwe has done in years. I recommend a watch. Just guys getting their personality and characters accross in their own words. Revolutionary 

[Miller11]

Just now, Bigdoggsteel said:

AEW have a new show on youtube building up to their next PPV. Episode 2 had promos from Joey Janela and Darby Allin. Both were better than anything wwe has done in years. I recommend a watch. Just guys getting their personality and characters accross in their own words. Revolutionary 

I can’t stand Joey Janela... but I’m intrigued to see what they are like

[Bigdoggsteel]

11 minutes ago, Miller11 said:

I can’t stand Joey Janela... but I’m intrigued to see what they are like

Have a watch and let us know what you think 

[Miller11]

59 minutes ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Have a watch and let us know what you think 

I liked the Darby Allin one. I know nothing at all about him, so it served as a good introduction. Bit long though.

I just can’t warm to Janela, which will no doubt contribute to the fact that I thought his was rubbish. Hammy and OTT, but not in a good way. Didn’t engage me at all. Once again he looks like small time and amateur on a stage too big for his talents.

[Bigdoggsteel]

I just liked the freedom of them. Hearkened back to a bygone era. It just contrasts to the wwe where everyone reads lines written by someone else  Allins was a bit too long alright. 

[DE.]

Creative freedom shines through in everything AEW does. It's such a nice contrast to the robotic lifelessness of modern WWE. Not everything will be a home run, but even then it's still better than watching WWE's talented but shackled performers go through the motions every week. 

The Cody/Dustin promos before Double or Nothing were awesome. Dustin in particular went from being a parody of himself in WWE to being totally reborn and rejuvenated in AEW.

[Miller11]

Speaking of good promos, without doubt one of the best in the world at it right here. His debut one on NXT UK was unreal. The shackles of wwe will neuter him soon enough no doubt.

https://youtu.be/w2f8_bAmFNA

[DE.]

14 hours ago, Miller11 said:

Speaking of good promos, without doubt one of the best in the world at it right here. His debut one on NXT UK was unreal. The shackles of wwe will neuter him soon enough no doubt.

https://youtu.be/w2f8_bAmFNA

This is like what WWE is trying to do with Sami Zayn, but far better.

[Miller11]

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/latest-news/786647/British-wrestler-lionheart-Adrian-McCallum-dead-aged-35

 

A catalyst of the British Wrestling resurgence. Absolutely heartbreaking.

[DE.]

That's really sad. He broke his neck taking a Styles Clash from AJ a few years ago and he was never supposed to wrestle again. The fact he'd come back and won the title was pretty awesome, so it's very tragic for it to end this way. 

[DE.]

So, Raw rating this week is 1.63. Smackdown meanwhile is only 1.27! Those are abysmal, especially with no competition from american football or the NBA. Smackdown in particular is up there with the worst ratings in the history of that show. FOX must be looking at their deal with WWE very nervously now. Almost none of the fans who stopped watching WWE for the NBA playoffs have come back.  

[Mike E]

5 hours ago, DE. said:

So, Raw rating this week is 1.63. Smackdown meanwhile is only 1.27! Those are abysmal, especially with no competition from american football or the NBA. Smackdown in particular is up there with the worst ratings in the history of that show. FOX must be looking at their deal with WWE very nervously now. Almost none of the fans who stopped watching WWE for the NBA playoffs have come back.  

That's what happens when you turn SD into Raw Recaps.

They need to commit to the brand split and have both shows run at 2 hours.