Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[DE.]

Unprotected chair shots to the head just aren't necessary. Most of the time they look stupid anyway as the guy has ample time to get his hands up but just stands there like a lemon and takes the hit. You don't need chair shots to the head to be edgy or successful. Moxley Vs Janela at Fyter Fest didn't have a single chair shot to the head. WCW at its peak didn't have anything like that either. It's crass shit that appeals to the lowest common denominator. A shock stunt to get a surprised pop. If you want to be successful and edgy do it by having cutting edge storylines and wrestling, not hardcore bullshit. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

I watched some of fyter fest last night. Moxley and Janela. Ya, it was grand. PG ish "death matches" are what they are. It's not really my cup of tea. Omega gave Moxley a believable enough looking beat down afterwards

Page v Havok v Jungle boy v MJF was pretty enjoyable. MJV is a character. He was at an OTT show in Dublin a while back and apparently he said "it sucks to be in the UK" followed by the following when he got booed for suggesting Ireland is in the uk "it's a pity the potato famine didn't finish the job". Now that's some good heel shit. 

[Mike E]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I watched some of fyter fest last night. Moxley and Janela. Ya, it was grand. PG ish "death matches" are what they are. It's not really my cup of tea. Omega gave Moxley a believable enough looking beat down afterwards

Page v Havok v Jungle boy v MJF was pretty enjoyable. MJV is a character. He was at an OTT show in Dublin a while back and apparently he said "it sucks to be in the UK" followed by the following when he got booed for suggesting Ireland is in the uk "it's a pity the potato famine didn't finish the job". Now that's some good heel shit. 

Amazing heel, and really lives the gimmick in interviews too.

[Vinjay]

5 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I watched some of fyter fest last night. Moxley and Janela. Ya, it was grand. PG ish "death matches" are what they are. It's not really my cup of tea. Omega gave Moxley a believable enough looking beat down afterwards

Page v Havok v Jungle boy v MJF was pretty enjoyable. MJV is a character. He was at an OTT show in Dublin a while back and apparently he said "it sucks to be in the UK" followed by the following when he got booed for suggesting Ireland is in the uk "it's a pity the potato famine didn't finish the job". Now that's some good heel shit. 

Not quite in this league though...

Wrestling in Boaz, Alabama, Yamamoto gave one of the great performances in pro wrestling. Before the start of the matches, he asked to give a statement to the crowd, which booed and hissed and threw things. In broken English he said, "I wish make aporogy. Very sorry my country bomb Pear-uh Harbor." And the crowd quiets, as he wipes away tears, and they awwww in sympathy. "It wrong thing to do, I wish not happen." They begin to applaud. "Yes, I wish not happen, because instead I wish they BOMB BOAZ!!!" Needless to say, the arena erupted.

[Dreyski]

The Dudleys at Heatwave 99 can go into that category:

Definitely NSFW

[DE.]

6 hours ago, Dreyski said:

The Dudleys at Heatwave 99 can go into that category:

Definitely NSFW

It's even more hilarious watching this considering recently Bubba Ray Dudley of all people had a fan brought backstage and had a go at him because he was heckling a group of heels (that just happened to include his girlfriend). ROH is in bad enough condition as it is without driving away fans who are just being fans.

Edited July 8, 2019 by DE.

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

It's even more hilarious watching this considering recently Bubba Ray Dudley of all people had a fan brought backstage and had a go at him because he was heckling a group of heels (that just happened to include his girlfriend). ROH is in bad enough condition as it is without driving away fans who are just being fans.

That was pathetic. I follow his missus on twitter and I used to watch TNA when she was in it doing the beautiful people stuff. She comes across as very whiny , moany and thinks she is a far bigger star than she is. Very hot though in fairness. 

[DE.]

And yet she is with Bubba Ray, so... 

I watched a random episode of Nitro from 1997 at the weekend. It still holds up today. Main event was Luger Vs Hogan for the title, which Luger won (think Hogan had held onto the belt for nearly a year by that point):

That crowd reaction at 02:57! You don't get many reactions like that in modern day wrestling. Also Tony Schiavone is at his best here. He gets shit on a lot these days but when Schiavone was on his game and invested in what he was watching he was one of the best imo. I can't imagine Michael Cole or Tom Phillips being able to produce that kind of performance in a big match. 

Obviously Hogan won the title back 6 days later at the PPV which kind of sours this win a bit, but still, very cool at the time. I remember being shocked.

Edited July 8, 2019 by DE.

[Vinjay]

Better ban all kicks now. ?

https://lordsofpain.net/britt-baker-suffers-concussion-at-aew-fight-for-the-fallen/

[DE.]

Yeah, definitely the same thing.

[DE.]

I haven't watched Fight for the Fallen yet, but I heard they put Alex Marvez back on commentary. Wtf. The guy is legit one of the worst commentators I have ever heard and it sounds like he was terrible again at this show. I know he's friends with the Elite but as owner Tony Khan needs to step in and say "no, not working". Do what WWE did with Otunga and Coach and let him do pre-shows or backstage segments or whatever. Just keep him away from the announce booth, Apparently JR didn't have a very good night either.

[Dreyski]

Harley Race dead at 76.

RIP to one of the all-time greats.

[DE.]

I'm too young to have ever really seen any of Harley's work, I remember him mainly as a manager in WCW in the early 90s. Undoubtedly a legend though.

[Mike E]

I don't know a whole about him, but know he's held up as one of the greats. RIP big man.

[Bigdoggsteel]

Watched him vs Junkyard dog a few months back. I don't know how he didn't die during that match. He took one fall to the outside on his head that was just brutal. 

Seemed like a tough guy in real life. 

[Vinjay]

More wrestling events at football stadiums recently (and upcoming) with Norwich getting an outdoor crowd of over 4,000 a few months ago. Mainly because of Grant Holt's new career direction. Sheffield United hosted an evening with Mick Foley and now ROH have booked a show at the Bolton Whites hotel. I believe that has also hosted Darts events and maybe boxing.

One of the UK independent companies (Defiant formerly WCPW) announced it's closure earlier today.

[DE.]

ROH are in a dire state at the moment. It's pretty sad to see. They banked their future on the Elite/NJPW connection, and now obviously the Elite have started AEW and brought in a ton of indy talent to fill their roster, whilst NJPW are realising they can book and promote their own events in the States without ROH and still make the same if not more money. It seriously wouldn't surprise me to see ROH out of business in a couple of years, especially considering competition from the likes of AEW, MLW, NJPW's american expansion and obviously WWE's regular sweeps of independent talent to compete in NXT. It's going to be a tough time coming up for them. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

On 02/08/2019 at 22:23, DE. said:

ROH are in a dire state at the moment. It's pretty sad to see. They banked their future on the Elite/NJPW connection, and now obviously the Elite have started AEW and brought in a ton of indy talent to fill their roster, whilst NJPW are realising they can book and promote their own events in the States without ROH and still make the same if not more money. It seriously wouldn't surprise me to see ROH out of business in a couple of years, especially considering competition from the likes of AEW, MLW, NJPW's american expansion and obviously WWE's regular sweeps of independent talent to compete in NXT. It's going to be a tough time coming up for them. 

Do they have a TV deal? It's difficult to see what their USP is. 

[Audax]

"Handsome Harley Race", I read he actually started wrestling in 1960, so a very long career. I think for awhile, they even would have quite a bit of blood in the sport but then, they cleaned that up, maybe for obvious reasons.

[Vinjay]

On 02/08/2019 at 12:44, Bigdoggsteel said:

Watched him vs Junkyard dog a few months back. I don't know how he didn't die during that match. He took one fall to the outside on his head that was just brutal. 

Seemed like a tough guy in real life. 

Overcame polio as a kid and a severe car accident later in life. (On a separate note anyone ever hear the Undertaker's "I've crippled more people than polio" line? ?) Not someone to mess with either as this story (while working as a court appointed server) details...

"A couple times my encounters did turn physical. Once, I went to a guy's workplace for the third time in an attempt to track him down. The eight month time period to serve him was about to expire. If I didn't serve him this time, the courts would have to refile the paperwork on the guy. I was determined to not let that happen. So, with the help of his employer, I found the guy and threw the court summons onto his lap while he was trying to drive away in his car. When someone physically touches the papers, they're legally served. As you could imagine, the guy was angry as hell. He stopped his car, got out and threw a punch at me. I've blocked a hell of a lot stronger and faster punches in my life, and I wasn't about to let this one connect. So I deflected it and then slapped the **** out of the bastard. As a process server, you do all you can to refrain from using force. But as far as I was concerned, this was self-defence. In any other situation, I would have done a lot more than just bitch-slap the guy."

"Seeing the different reactions was the fun part of the job. They ranged from perplexed looks from people who said: "Harley Race? What are you doing here?" to fans wanting me to stay and chat. Some got their court papers and an autograph all at once. That's a full service process-server. "

"All in all I served around 500 people between 1996 and 1999, and I'm proud to say I had a 100 percent success rate. There wasn't a single person I wasn't able to track down."

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Vinjay17

[DE.]

9 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

Do they have a TV deal? It's difficult to see what their USP is. 

As far as I'm aware they don't have a national TV deal. They're owned by a wealthy broadcast company called Sinclair who have local stations but nothing national, so they're effectively on syndication which is obviously quite an outdated model in the modern era. They've tried internet broadcasting to get higher penetration but it hasn't really worked out for them, primarily because of numerous technical glitches and the fact ROH has always been a niche product with little mainstream appeal. They were beginning to gain some traction through the Bullet Club/NJPW angles but obviously that is now dead in the water.

Just now, Audax said:

"Handsome Harley Race", I read he actually started wrestling in 1960, so a very long career. I think for awhile, they even would have quite a bit of blood in the sport but then, they cleaned that up, maybe for obvious reasons.

Blood has been in and out of wrestling, generally depending on the political climate. There have always been and still are federations where excessive blood is common. In the late 90's both WWE and ECW were full of blood, although WCW was always a lot more restrained with blading. Nowadays it's very rare to see intentional/real blood in WWE. TNA/Impact has some but not a lot, and it's to be determined how AEW will handle blood - their PPVs had some of it, but I can't see the folks at Turner being happy with regular blade jobs once they are on TNT. I suspect it'll be similar to WWE with some accidental blood on occasion and intentional blading on a select few PPVs, but otherwise minimal. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by DE.

[Vinjay]

Just now, DE. said:

As far as I'm aware they don't have a national TV deal. They're owned by a wealthy broadcast company called Sinclair who have local stations but nothing national, so they're effectively on syndication which is obviously quite an outdated model in the modern era. They've tried internet broadcasting to get higher penetration but it hasn't really worked out for them, primarily because of numerous technical glitches and the fact ROH has always been a niche product with little mainstream appeal. They were beginning to gain some traction through the Bullet Club/NJPW angles but obviously that is now dead in the water.

Blood has been in and out of wrestling, generally depending on the political climate. There have always been and still are federations where excessive blood is common. In the late 90's both WWE and ECW were full of blood, although WCW was always a lot more restrained with blading. Nowadays it's very rare to see intentional/real blood in WWE. TNA/Impact has some but not a lot, and it's to be determined how AEW will handle blood - their PPVs had some of it, but I can't see the folks at Turner being happy with regular blade jobs once they are on TNT. I suspect it'll be similar to WWE with some accidental blood on occasion and intentional blading on a select few PPVs, but otherwise minimal. 

Well they said there wouldn't be blood on regular TNT shows. "Raw Is War" didn't have buckets of blood every single week but it does add to major grudge matches on PPV. WCW banned blading at the time of Turner's takeover though 2000 had more swearing/blood. There's always going to be accidental blood but I don't see what's wrong with using fake blood for certain matches. That scraps blading AND any HIV/hepatitis paranoia at least from a blading standpoint. That's way overblown anyway because you might as well ban any contact sport as well if an argument is based on that. Back on the issue of chair shots (debated a few weeks back) you also have to remember Cody isn't just a regular wrestler. It's not exactly Vince taking a chair shot but it's hardly a regular roster member doing so. 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Vinjay17

[Audax]

I think part of the blood deal may have been in the 1980s and some here do not remember or know this, it's before their time, was when a lot of paranoia existed over contagious diseases.... I see Vinjay17 mentions this, well, back in the old days, people were unsure for example about playing basketball with someone HIV positive, even using toilet seats, there really was a bit of hysteria. It's easy to find fault with that but the truth is, there was a lot unknown about the disease back then, especially by the general public.

Anyway, here is a Sports Illustrated article, "the last real world's champion", take it or leave it as far as the headline goes but a good article, imho.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/more-sports/‘he-was-the-last-real-world’s-champion’-fellow-legends-pay-tribute-to-harley-race/ar-AAFeSo0

Pictures of the blood was a selling point and even on the cover of some wrestling mags, I won't post it here, that might not be in good taste but I'm sure if one goes looking for it on say, bing.com or other search engines, I'm sure you will spot some and I think Harley Race was involved in one of those incidences.

 

 

 

Edited August 6, 2019 by Audax

[DE.]

1 hour ago, Vinjay17 said:

Well they said there wouldn't be blood on regular TNT shows. "Raw Is War" didn't have buckets of blood every single week but it does add to major grudge matches on PPV. WCW banned blading at the time of Turner's takeover though 2000 had more swearing/blood. There's always going to be accidental blood but I don't see what's wrong with using fake blood for certain matches. That scraps blading AND any HIV/hepatitis paranoia at least from a blading standpoint. That's way overblown anyway because you might as well ban any contact sport as well if an argument is based on that. Back on the issue of chair shots (debated a few weeks back) you also have to remember Cody isn't just a regular wrestler. It's not exactly Vince taking a chair shot but it's hardly a regular roster member doing so. 

I don't agree with regular blading, but I agree that on blowoff matches, cage matches, etc, is definitely adds to the story. 

I'm honestly struggling to remember any case of intentional blading from the time WCW landed on TNT, up until about 2000 when Russo arrived. I think there might have been a couple of instances on PPV, but I never remember seeing intentional blood on Nitro. I can remember it happening accidentally in a few matches, and the cameras would zoom right out for the rest of the match which made it really obvious that somebody had gotten colour.  

My view on chairshots to the head hasn't changed, but if Cody chooses to do it then there isn't really anybody who can stop him. I'd be very disappointed if it became a regular thing in AEW, but again with Turner in play I think it's highly unlikely. Once they start on TNT in a couple of months they will need to fit into Turner's corporate structure and Turner aren't going to take kindly to the type of negative press chair shots to the head would bring. They aren't ECW and don't need to go down that route. I don't think there is or ever really was a huge appetite for the ultra violent stuff feds like ECW, XPW, CZW, etc put out. If there was then ECW would still exist. 

[Vinjay]

The question is how much has TNT changed? It's a big step for them to bring back professional wrestling considering the same network took it off the air (when they had a willing buyer to run and administrate day to day) so who really knows what their standards/practices are now. A lot of people at Turner looked down on Pro Wrestling but perhaps they have adapted from that kind of snobbery. The guy who cancelled Nitro/Thunder left years ago. 

Also have to remember it's still TV 14. So either that's paranoia over the slightest violence OR they are willing to "push the envelope" somewhat. Vince thinks TNT won't put up with certain things (and maybe they won't with blood) but they might allow more than WCW did (pre 2000 anyway). At one time WCW was so politically correct that they labelled foreign objects as international objects. I'm sure it's going to be a bit more sensible than that and apparently even Turner laughed when he heard about it.

I'm not obsessed with violence for sake of violence otherwise I would watch UFC more. Stories are the key but there needs to be an element of danger when you book cage matches, etc on PPV. Otherwise it's just watered down especially when you book HIAC PPV's with no real grudge behind the match.

On the HIV/Aids stuff I wasn't around in the 80's (not an an age of understanding anyway) but I know educating the public took time because I've read about it. The "don't die of ignorance" campaign.  It would be somewhat quicker now with social media, etc.