Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[DE.]

Raw & Smackdown are still absolute shit. Ratings on Smackdown have been tanking since week 1 on FOX and will continue to drop because the show is frankly terrible.I imagine it'll settle around the 1.8-2m viewer range, right where they were on USA.

I watch NWA every Wednesday. I like that it's usually under an hour. It's a pretty easy watch - nothing mind-blowing but nice to have on in the background whilst I'm working on my laptop. 

[DE.]

Another absolutely fantastic Dynamite show this week. Every match was good to great, and the big brawl between the Inner Circle and Cody/Dustin/MJF/DDP was a ton of fun. The crowd being so into everything makes the show so much better. Will be watching NXT tomorrow.

Audiences for this week: Dynamite 963,000, NXT 698,000. Both dropped again, however considering the strong basketball & world series competition those are still pretty good numbers for both show. AEW is still in the top 5 for cable shows, actually moved up from 5th to 4th this week. 

Edited October 25, 2019 by DE.

[DE.]

Just watched NXT...

Belair Vs Ripley - really solid women's match. Both have the potential to be stars as long as they stay in NXT. WWE would ruin both on the main roster.

Riddles Vs Grimes - really liked this one. Riddle is another absolute star. Wonder if they're going to do anything with him and Goldberg? It would have to end with Riddle going over, otherwise there's no point.

Breezango & Scott Vs The Forgotten Sons - eh, was fine I guess. It's nice to see Breezango doing something at least, although I wish they were still doing the Fashion Files. 

Angel Garza Vs Jack Gallagher - Standard 205 Live fare. It was okay but I don't care enough about the characters to get that into it.

Nox/Kai Vs Duke/Shafir - short but fine for a TV match. I liked the Kabuki Warriors promo, which ironically was better than most of the other promos on the show despite being 90% in Japanese and therefore unintelligible to me. 

Strong Vs Lee Vs Dijakovic - very good triple threat match, Takeover quality level. I like that they had Strong go over without having the Undisputed Era help him. Heels need to get clean wins to be considered legitimate. The post-match angle with the UE & Ciampa/Gargano/Balor was well done too. You could see Balor's turn coming but it was still executed well and the crowd reaction was great. I like that they left it open as to whether Balor had joined the Undisputed Era or whether he was working alone. 

I still preferred AEW overall but it was still a very strong show from NXT. Both Wednesday night shows blow Raw & Smackdown out of the water. They're practically a different form of entertainment at this point.

On a side note I didn't think much of the promos on NXT this week. I don't like the picture-in-picture promos where they have the guy staring off-centre from the camera. It just looks weird (also the promos felt really scriped and not natural at all). Pete Dunne's promo was pretty meh as well. At least they are doing promos though. Other than Cody & Jericho nobody else seems to be allowed to speak on Dynamite. Their matches are great but AEW needs to add a bit more promo time to help push along storylines and develop some of the characters. WWE does give their wrestlers promo time but it comes across as scripted and fake which is a problem. You can tell the difference between a wrestler like Flair or Hogan just winging it versus most of the other roster members, and the former always comes across as more authentic and interesting even if not every bullet point is hit.

[Mike E]

In the US, AEW is advertised in virtually every ad break on every non-Fox channel. WWE doesn't even seem to be advertised on Fox's channels.

Don't think the area I'm in is the reason either, as we're in New England. Been in Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, soon to be in Connecticut and New York though.

[Guest]

I think Keith Lee is going to be a big star. Everyone will have opinions on the angle with Finn Balor, but the way WWE built up Keith Lee during the triple-threat and had the UE destroy that was great storytelling. He's already pretty over but he's going to be super over going forward - and personally I'd get the North American Title on him as soon as Roderick Strong is in a position to loose it.

[DE.]

12 hours ago, Mike E said:

In the US, AEW is advertised in virtually every ad break on every non-Fox channel. WWE doesn't even seem to be advertised on Fox's channels.

Don't think the area I'm in is the reason either, as we're in New England. Been in Vermont, Massachusetts, Rhode Island, soon to be in Connecticut and New York though.

Yep Turner are going in pretty hard with the advertising for AEW. Even ITV have been advertising it during the Rugby half time breaks. 

Just now, JoeH said:

I think Keith Lee is going to be a big star. Everyone will have opinions on the angle with Finn Balor, but the way WWE built up Keith Lee during the triple-threat and had the UE destroy that was great storytelling. He's already pretty over but he's going to be super over going forward - and personally I'd get the North American Title on him as soon as Roderick Strong is in a position to loose it.

I liked the look and demeanour of Lee. He's definitely got charisma and for a big man seems to have quite a varied and interesting moveset. He'd be wasted on the main roster (think Big E before the New Day happened) but there's plenty of room for him to shine in NXT.

[DE.]

Goddamn. Smackdown was on FS1 this week but still only posted 888,000 viewers - that's legitimately terrible. They were expecting a drop, but not that bad. They actually drew less viewers than AEW. I mean, the show is pretty awful so it's not a surprise in that sense, but to lose roughly 1.6m viewers is incredible.

[DE.]

AEW: 749,000, NXT: 580,000. The numbers look bad however there is a huge mitigating factor in game 7 of the world series being broadcast on the same night and getting a monster 23m viewers. Numbers should theoretically go back up for both shows now that the world series has ended. If they don't then that's obviously a worry. 

[Mike E]

7 hours ago, DE. said:

AEW: 749,000, NXT: 580,000. The numbers look bad however there is a huge mitigating factor in game 7 of the world series being broadcast on the same night and getting a monster 23m viewers. Numbers should theoretically go back up for both shows now that the world series has ended. If they don't then that's obviously a worry. 

Even I watched the WS rather than AEW

[DE.]

So apparently a significant amount of WWE talent have been kept in SA and aren't being allowed to fly home. 

Meltzer on Twitter: "Some notes since nobody can say anything.  WWE had a problem in Saudi Arabia.  Talent was not allowed to leave on their flight and most are still there.  20 people, 12 of which were talent, have left but the rest are still there."

PWInsider: "the majority of those delayed leaving Saudi Arabia for tonight's Smackdown taping will not make the taping and are now at hotels in Riyadh. We are told there is no word yet when they are now leaving to return to the United States"

Sean Ross Sapp on Twitter: "There were rumors among talent that Vince McMahon got in some kind of disagreement in Saudi Arabia, though I haven't been able to fully confirm that."

[Guest]

Following Saudi controversy, WWE release statement furthering the relationship and officially, contractually bindingly adding a second show to the Saudi calendar year on year. Odd one.

I enjoyed the NXT invasion on Friday, it wilted on Raw. It lost edge for me to repeatedly see Keith Lee and Matt Riddle doing heelish things, wasn't great at all. Feel like Raw and Smackdown will be "invading" NXT on Wednesday too and it going to go on too long. It was great Friday but they do over play things sometimes.

[DE.]

The whole WWE employees invading a WWE show led by a WWE CEO is all a bit hokey to me. You also have the logic gap of enemies suddenly standing beside each other like nothing's ever happened between them. Feels like they do this every Survivor Series now and like most of their ideas it gets old fast. The Smackdown "invasion" was definitely better than Raw though.

[Miller11]

Hearing very good things about Cody’s promo on AEW this week, looking forward to seeing that. A mate of mine has managed to get me a comp ticket to the WWE tapings in Manchester tomorrow, so I’m going to have to do some catching up before then. 

[Guest]

Has anyone listed to this new podcast After The Bell? I've been really enjoying it. Cesaro in the most recent episode talking about how wrestling is pre-determined and open discussions about his frustrations with short matches and lack of push. Really interesting listen because for the most part its the wrestlers true opinions. 

Cody promo was pretty good, interesting to see The Rock on Twitter hyping up AEW so much recently too!

[Miller11]

Just now, JoeH said:

Has anyone listed to this new podcast After The Bell? I've been really enjoying it. Cesaro in the most recent episode talking about how wrestling is pre-determined and open discussions about his frustrations with short matches and lack of push. Really interesting listen because for the most part its the wrestlers true opinions. 

Cody promo was pretty good, interesting to see The Rock on Twitter hyping up AEW so much recently too!

Not heard of that Joe, but I think I’ll give it a whirl. Who hosts it?

I listen pretty religiously to Cornette and Prichard’s and fairly often to Bischoff’s. A couple of BritWres ones too. Like a good podcast!

[DE.]

It's hosted by Corey Graves. The last episode was pretty good. Think Corey could do with a co-host for certain talking points, but he does okay by himself. 

[DE.]

This week AEW drew 822,000 viewers, whilst NXT managed 813,000. Obviously a huge boost for NXT, likely thanks to the exposure the brand received on Raw & Smackdown along with the invasion style angle they are doing.

AEW bounced back from last week, but considering last week was game 7 of the world series that isn't necessarily a useful comparison. Compared to two weeks ago, the last 'normal' week, they are down another 20%. They have their Full Gear PPV on Saturday so may receive a post-PPV boost next Wednesday. Very possible NXT could overtake AEW in the next couple of weeks if the Survivor Series build stays strong though.

Some random thoughts on Dynamite:

- Still feels like the matches are a bit too long. I don't think they've gotten the balance quite right yet between match time and character development. 

- Their insistence on having all clean finishes will hurt them in the long run. Sometimes it's OK for a match to end in a DQ if it furthers the storyline. It would have been better to do that than have Hangman get pinned by Jericho again this week, for example. The show ended in a brawl anyway. DQ's should generally be avoided, but in some circumstances - particularly on TV - it can make sense.

- Their women's division feels like a bit of a mess at the moment. Too many women, not enough time or character development. Also whilst I appreciate Emi Sakura is a legend in Japan, I don't think she is necessarily the best choice for Riho's first PPV opponent.

- Fantastic promo from Cody. Incredible that WWE dropped the ball with this guy - he has his dad's charisma and likeability, and is a great wrestler too. He's a ready-made star and they had him stuck in that ridiculous Stardust gimmick. Idiots.

- I wish they would stop with the Dark Order stuff. They aren't over and I don't even get what their gimmick is. There are better tag teams to showcase.

- Similarly, Shawn Spears comes off as very bland to me. His whole personality revolves around that chairshot to the head he gave to Cody a while back, plus having Tully Blanchard as a manager. Again, not over and imo not going anywhere. Having a match with Brandon Cutler isn't going to help things. This match should have been on AEW Dark and the time used on TV for character development elsewhere.

- Jericho's promo video mocking Cody was hilarious, but as the Cody one was web-only I imagine a lot of people had no idea it was a parody. 

- Overall I preferred last week's show. I thought the character development was better and the matches more interesting. This week had a great promo from Cody and an excellent main event/post-main event angle, but I thought the show as a whole was pretty average.  

 

[Miller11]

Just on my way back from Manchester. Sacrificed seeing the fiend to save waiting an hour for the next train.

Enjoyable, but 4 hours is a long slog. I think from what I saw in person both Raw and Smackdown should be solid if unspectacular.

Highlights for me: seeing Mark Andrews and Flash Morgan Webster on the big stage, Randy Orton and Charlotte Flair - both just megastars, Fury was fun, and Walter.

Rovers shirt representing on the front row, along with Elliott Bennett’s best pal.

[Vinjay]

It was boring. I wasn't going to attend until noticing a couple of weeks ago that the Glasgow RAW taping had been cancelled. Should have known better. The only interesting thing was Walter's appearance and what resulted from that. It's funny that in this country Walter was kinda seen as a sissy name but now I associate it more with Walter White, Walter Kovacs (Rorschach) and now this Walter. 

I'm sure there was a train to Accrington (you live in Clayton right?) after 11pm. There was one that terminated at Blackburn and one that took a slightly longer route via Accrington. Not to mention didn't the RAW main event finish just after 10pm? From what we saw of the Fiend it wasn't much more than an entrance anyway.

[Guest]

Seeing way too much Fiend. WWE just can't help themselves. If the character is ever going to work it has to be sporadic, random, shocking. It can't be every week. It won't survive over a year with the way they're booking it at the minute. 

[Miller11]

12 hours ago, Vinjay17 said:

It was boring. I wasn't going to attend until noticing a couple of weeks ago that the Glasgow RAW taping had been cancelled. Should have known better. The only interesting thing was Walter's appearance and what resulted from that. It's funny that in this country Walter was kinda seen as a sissy name but now I associate it more with Walter White, Walter Kovacs (Rorschach) and now this Walter. 

I'm sure there was a train to Accrington (you live in Clayton right?) after 11pm. There was one that terminated at Blackburn and one that took a slightly longer route via Accrington. Not to mention didn't the RAW main event finish just after 10pm? From what we saw of the Fiend it wasn't much more than an entrance anyway.

I caught the train at about 10:15 as I couldn’t be bothered waiting around for another hour. I’d had enough by then.

Interesting you were bored. I have come to the conclusion that, by and large, WWE is boring, and AEW is frustrating.

[DE.]

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

Seeing way too much Fiend. WWE just can't help themselves. If the character is ever going to work it has to be sporadic, random, shocking. It can't be every week. It won't survive over a year with the way they're booking it at the minute. 

It was obvious this was going to happen as soon as Bray lost creative control of the character. Giving The Fiend the strap now is a totally dumb decision imo. He doesn't need it and I'd argue it doesn't even make much sense for his character to want it at present.

The Fiend as a character should have been built up all the way to WrestleMania, but instead WWE are blowing their load all at once now because he's one of the only characters on the show that the audience genuinely cares about.  

[Blue blood]

On 12/11/2019 at 12:53, DE. said:

It was obvious this was going to happen as soon as Bray lost creative control of the character. Giving The Fiend the strap now is a totally dumb decision imo. He doesn't need it and I'd argue it doesn't even make much sense for his character to want it at present.

The Fiend as a character should have been built up all the way to WrestleMania, but instead WWE are blowing their load all at once now because he's one of the only characters on the show that the audience genuinely cares about.  

Problem is WWE barring the NXT brand has zero slow build. Also once they got him to face Seth Rollins for the title at hell in a cell there was no winner. Either he wins the title, the character is killed before he starts or they do a screwy finish. They (WWE) figured the last option was best, realised it was alienating fans beyond the usual levels (it was spectacularly bad booking) and backtracked at crown jewel. In the process they made Seth and his finisher look weak and competing for a title shot unnecessary, so good job WWE...

A Wrestlemania win after a dominant Royal Rumble victory would have been so much better. 

Much prefer NXT which to me is the best of all WWE attempts as it has quality wrestling, solid storylines over a decent time frame and good character development. Whilst I've initially struggled with as breaks in matches I am enjoying seeing more of the best brand. 

That said I worry for Survivor Series as 1) will NXT quality be diluted / poisoned by Raw and Smallckdown booking and storylines and 2) even if not then I think a lot of tripple threat marches will get wearing. 

[Mike E]

9 hours ago, Blue blood said:

Problem is WWE barring the NXT brand has zero slow build. Also once they got him to face Seth Rollins for the title at hell in a cell there was no winner. Either he wins the title, the character is killed before he starts or they do a screwy finish. They (WWE) figured the last option was best, realised it was alienating fans beyond the usual levels (it was spectacularly bad booking) and backtracked at crown jewel. In the process they made Seth and his finisher look weak and competing for a title shot unnecessary, so good job WWE...

A Wrestlemania win after a dominant Royal Rumble victory would have been so much better. 

Much prefer NXT which to me is the best of all WWE attempts as it has quality wrestling, solid storylines over a decent time frame and good character development. Whilst I've initially struggled with as breaks in matches I am enjoying seeing more of the best brand. 

That said I worry for Survivor Series as 1) will NXT quality be diluted / poisoned by Raw and Smallckdown booking and storylines and 2) even if not then I think a lot of tripple threat marches will get wearing. 

The Fiend should've continued taking out established stars.

He should've claimed to be THE dark heart of the WWE, when taking out Kane to provoke the Undertaker.

He should now be preparing to legit retire (and I mean utterly squash) the Undertaker at SS.

Then just disappear. Just do the odd Firefly Funhouse skit again.

Then just as #30 is due to come out at the Rumble (say Strowman or Bryan or even Punk to turn up the heel heat on Fiend) they're found bloodied and tied up in a crucifix pose, with 'Let me in' painted on their chest.

Fiend is then #30, wins Rumble, 'almost squash' WWE champ for the title at WM.

Is what should've happened imo.

[DE.]

There's a lot of great, innovative things they could have done with the Fiend character. Unfortunately they are so desperate for wrestlers that move the needle or are just over with the live crowd that they've hotshotted him to the title and overexposed him. In six months Wyatt will be back to being just another guy. 

This week's viewership - AEW 957,000, NXT 750,000. A nice increase for AEW on the back of the Full Gear PPV (and back in the top 5 for cable), but a slightly surprising decline for NXT. It wouldn't surprise me if that number increases again if WWE advertise some more main roster talent to appear on Wednesdays, and they may even surpass AEW one of these weeks, but I think once Survivor Series is done NXT is likely to settle back in the 650-750k range. AEW meanwhile will be hoping to hold on to their post-PPV bump going forward. They put on another good show this week so hopefully that will count for something.