Wrestling Entertainment - we know, you don't have to tell us!

[Vinjay]

Digs at Tony Khan being made by Randy Orton (though Khan started it) bringing up accusations from Craig Kline and his father's money. Khan is a man who holds a degree in finance not some clueless rich kid. He could just spend his life racing cars and playing golf like some other talentless rich kids do. AEW will lose money this year but in 2020 they may well be on course for a profit.

It's like saying Shane and Stephanie had everything handed to them. No they are university educated as well and started off with lowscale jobs in the company. The only difference is they didn't start the company with their Father's backing.

[DE.]

Orton loves stirring up stuff on social media to be fair. It's pretty entertaining. 

[DE.]

So Jim Cornette managed to come out with some blatantly racist shit on NWA Power and has now resigned. Considering Power is a taped show it's kind of hard to fathom how his comment even made it through the original editing process in the first place, but there you go.

I used to find Cornette quite refreshing but nowadays he's become really bitter and comes across as incredibly dumb and out of touch. Looks like he's even blocked Brian Zane now  

[DE.]

NXT won the ratings war for the first time this week with 916,000 to 893,000 for AEW. They obviously promoted a lot of main roster stars showing up and it was the go-home show to both Takeover and Survivor Series so if they were going to win any week it was going to be this one. Decent numbers for both shows regardless which is exactly what everyone should want as both NXT and AEW are great shows, streets ahead of what is churned out Mondays and Fridays by WWE. 

Takeover: Wargames was a very good PPV, as it the standard for Takeover events. Both WarGames matches were excellent, with the women's one in particular being the highlight of the show. The rest of the matches were solid. It'll be interesting to see if Survivor Series is improved by having NXT talent prevelent throughout.

On a side note Code Rhodes has trademarked Bash at the Beach (event coming up in January), SuperBrawl and Slamboree - all historic WCW PPV names. I'm kind of surprised WWE doesn't already have these locked down under trademark themselves but regardless it's a smart move by Cody to have these names available for use as they have historic recognition. 

[Vinjay]

3 hours ago, DE. said:

NXT won the ratings war for the first time this week with 916,000 to 893,000 for AEW. They obviously promoted a lot of main roster stars showing up and it was the go-home show to both Takeover and Survivor Series so if they were going to win any week it was going to be this one. Decent numbers for both shows regardless which is exactly what everyone should want as both NXT and AEW are great shows, streets ahead of what is churned out Mondays and Fridays by WWE. 

Takeover: Wargames was a very good PPV, as it the standard for Takeover events. Both WarGames matches were excellent, with the women's one in particular being the highlight of the show. The rest of the matches were solid. It'll be interesting to see if Survivor Series is improved by having NXT talent prevelent throughout.

On a side note Code Rhodes has trademarked Bash at the Beach (event coming up in January), SuperBrawl and Slamboree - all historic WCW PPV names. I'm kind of surprised WWE doesn't already have these locked down under trademark themselves but regardless it's a smart move by Cody to have these names available for use as they have historic recognition. 

Well people better hope AEW don't use them in such matches. You can guarantee that's when they will be watered down as women won't be blading themselves. Or even using fake blood.

Edited November 24, 2019 by Vinjay17

[Guest]

Pleasantly surprised to wake up to the SS results. Great PPV, Keith Lee again showing he's an absolute mega star in the making. Rhea Ripley's win felt great too, she's been awesome as of late. Some low points on this PPV, like Dominick getting involved in the Rey match, most likely leading to an in ring debut which is really not up my street - but overall a good PPV. Buried Raw though mind!

[Mike E]

21 minutes ago, JoeH said:

Pleasantly surprised to wake up to the SS results. Great PPV, Keith Lee again showing he's an absolute mega star in the making. Rhea Ripley's win felt great too, she's been awesome as of late. Some low points on this PPV, like Dominick getting involved in the Rey match, most likely leading to an in ring debut which is really not up my street - but overall a good PPV. Buried Raw though mind!

Only 3 disappointments for me:

Why RuDolph? Should've called an audible and had Street Profits win.

Treatment of Walter in his match. Not saying he should've stood tall, but he deserved better booking than he got.

Should've ended with Baysler standing over Lynch, without the fight back.

Otherwise one of the better booked WWE PPVs of the year imo, really enjoyed it.

[Vinjay]

Didn't really care about Survivor Series. Strange choice of match to end the show.

Austin/Undertaker interview interested me far more.

[Vinjay]

12 hours ago, JoeH said:

Pleasantly surprised to wake up to the SS results. Great PPV, Keith Lee again showing he's an absolute mega star in the making. Rhea Ripley's win felt great too, she's been awesome as of late. Some low points on this PPV, like Dominick getting involved in the Rey match, most likely leading to an in ring debut which is really not up my street - but overall a good PPV. Buried Raw though mind!

Yeah when he's not busy as Rovers president doing pretty well for himself.

[DE.]

Overall I enjoyed Survivor Series, particularly that it wasn't drawn out. I expected it to be 4 hours plus but the main show was just under 3h 30m which was just about right.

The women's SS match was mostly good but I didn't get the ending. Why were LaRae and and Shirai allowed to constantly interfere in clear view of the ref? Were they actually still in the match or had they technically been eliminated through "injury"? Why didn't any Raw or Smackdown people come out to even things up? Why make the heel Banks out to be sympathetic by giving her a 3-on-1 disadvantage? The ending made little sense to me although the match itself was fine.

Styles/Strong/Nakamura was solid enough and it was cool to see Strong getting the win for NXT in this one. I do feel like Fish and O'Reilly should have been out there with Strong to counter-balance Sami Zayn with Nakamura, but then I guess the OC would have needed to be out with Styles too and that might have made things a bit too crowded.

Cole/Dunne was great, but no surprise there.

Wyatt/Bryan was okay but the red lighting in the Fiend's matches is hokey and annoying. I wish they'd have gotten rid of that after his terrible HITC match with Rollins. This was a better and more believable match than the Rollins nonsense, and I'm assuming we'll get a Fiend/Bryan/Miz triple threat at the next PPV.

The men's SS match was really good imo. Didn't like Walter being eliminated so quickly, but otherwise the match told a good story and everybody got their chance to shine. Keith Lee was made to look great despite losing at the end. The NXT guys as a whole were once again made to look like a real force despite not coming out on top.

Lesnar/Mysterio was pretty poor. Nobody expects Lesnar matches to go for very long but considering Heyman's hype of "miracle or massacre" it was kind of disappointing that it ended up being neither. I thought the Dominic interference was fine and made sense from a storyline perspective, but if it's leading to him doing more stuff in the ring I'm not sure people really want to see that.

Not sure why Becky/Bayley/Baszler went on last. A weird match to end the night on and a pretty bland match with nothing memorable happening. The men's SS match should have been last on the card. Baszler winning was interesting but I thought Becky looked a bit weak selling a pretty inocuous table bump for so long, whilst Bayley looked like a chump as usual. 

Anyway, good show overall and NXT got put over in a big way which is a relief, as I thought they might get buried after being made to look so strong going into the PPV. I guess now that they are opposite AEW on Wednesdays they are suddenly a lot more important. 

Edited November 25, 2019 by DE.

[DE.]

5 hours ago, Vinjay17 said:

Austin/Undertaker interview interested me far more.

I just finished watching that and it was really good. It's rare to see Taker in such a casual setting, just discussing his history and thoughts on the business. I think he should have retired a long time ago (probably before the Brock match) but he has an incredible legacy nonetheless. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

13 hours ago, DE. said:

Overall I enjoyed Survivor Series, particularly that it wasn't drawn out. I expected it to be 4 hours plus but the main show was just under 3h 30m which was just about right.

The women's SS match was mostly good but I didn't get the ending. Why were LaRae and and Shirai allowed to constantly interfere in clear view of the ref? Were they actually still in the match or had they technically been eliminated through "injury"? Why didn't any Raw or Smackdown people come out to even things up? Why make the heel Banks out to be sympathetic by giving her a 3-on-1 disadvantage? The ending made little sense to me although the match itself was fine.

Styles/Strong/Nakamura was solid enough and it was cool to see Strong getting the win for NXT in this one. I do feel like Fish and O'Reilly should have been out there with Strong to counter-balance Sami Zayn with Nakamura, but then I guess the OC would have needed to be out with Styles too and that might have made things a bit too crowded.

Cole/Dunne was great, but no surprise there.

Wyatt/Bryan was okay but the red lighting in the Fiend's matches is hokey and annoying. I wish they'd have gotten rid of that after his terrible HITC match with Rollins. This was a better and more believable match than the Rollins nonsense, and I'm assuming we'll get a Fiend/Bryan/Miz triple threat at the next PPV.

The men's SS match was really good imo. Didn't like Walter being eliminated so quickly, but otherwise the match told a good story and everybody got their chance to shine. Keith Lee was made to look great despite losing at the end. The NXT guys as a whole were once again made to look like a real force despite not coming out on top.

Lesnar/Mysterio was pretty poor. Nobody expects Lesnar matches to go for very long but considering Heyman's hype of "miracle or massacre" it was kind of disappointing that it ended up being neither. I thought the Dominic interference was fine and made sense from a storyline perspective, but if it's leading to him doing more stuff in the ring I'm not sure people really want to see that.

Not sure why Becky/Bayley/Baszler went on last. A weird match to end the night on and a pretty bland match with nothing memorable happening. The men's SS match should have been last on the card. Baszler winning was interesting but I thought Becky looked a bit weak selling a pretty inocuous table bump for so long, whilst Bayley looked like a chump as usual. 

Anyway, good show overall and NXT got put over in a big way which is a relief, as I thought they might get buried after being made to look so strong going into the PPV. I guess now that they are opposite AEW on Wednesdays they are suddenly a lot more important. 

I think Beckys performances are very inconsistent. For every good match she has, she has a few stinkers. They seem to be going all in on her, but shes not a female Austin or Rock. 

[DE.]

2 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I think Beckys performances are very inconsistent. For every good match she has, she has a few stinkers. They seem to be going all in on her, but shes not a female Austin or Rock. 

I tend to agree, Becky's performances very much depend on who she's in the ring with. Her matches with Charlotte and Sasha for example are always solid, but against the likes of Lacey Evans or Natalya not so much. They're obviously trying to make her a female Stone Cold and it's worked to some extent, although at times I've found her character more irrtating than cool and I still cringe at some of the things she comes out with. They came very close to completely derailing her momentum by putting her together with Seth onscreen, but fortunately they seem to have completely backed off from that idea.

Speaking of Seth his heel turn on Raw was great. The crowd obviously want to boo him and it's good that for once WWE actually listened to their audience and tweaked Seth's character into more of a heel role. He's much more suited to that than being a babyface. Raw as a whole this week was surprisingly decent. 

[Miller11]

I was almost at the stage where I was ready for a complete break from Wrestling. AEW annoys me far too frequently and I have this awful feeling it’s going to be a great big missed opportunity. The vitriol any valid criticism is met with, as well as the likes of Meltzer and Zane showing ludicrous bias is tiresome. My favourite brand of late, NWA power, has killed itself completely, tonight’s show being absolute evidence. But Survivor series really pulled out all the stops. Genuinely exciting and progressive. I hope it’s a sign of things to come and not a short lived reaction.

[DE.]

If you've followed WWE for a while you know they'll derail their own momentum soon enough. Until Vince is gone they will just shoot themselves in the foot over and over again. Vince has been out of touch for over a decade now - still has occasional flashes of brilliance but is never able to sustain it. 

Interestingly WWE got no post-PPV boost from Survivor Series for Raw. It was actually slightly down in viewership from the previous Monday. Goes without saying that isn't a good sign. A shame as well, considering Raw was actually good this week. 

It's disappointing if the NWA are going to erase the episodes they had in the can featuring Cornette. Assuming he didn't make any other stupid gaffes on commentary I don't think many would have minded if they had aired the rest of those episodes whilst making it clear Cornette wouldn't be working past those tapings. I enjoyed watching the Thunder Rosa stuff on Power this week, but it was a bit of a momentum killer to have such a patched together show after they had been building so well. 

AEW Dark was actually pretty good this week. A really great segment with Shanna explaining her journey to AEW (including being told by TNA she was too fat for TV - wtf), and some good matches. Although I have to say AEW's use of Kenny Omega perplexes me. He had a pretty even match with Jack Evans for some AAA Championship few people would likely have heard of. Omega is one of the biggest stars they have, but putting him in matches with the likes of Janela and Evans on AEW Dark is counterproductive in my mind. It'd be like Hulk Hogan in WCW's heyday being put in matches with people like Alex Wright or Jim Duggan on WCW Pro and the matches actually being competitive. It's no slight on Janela or Evans, but a top star shouldn't be having competitive matches with lower mid-carders on the B-show - imo at least. It makes Omega look weaker than he should and I don't think it really gives a rub to the other guys as it's largely forgotten about or not even seen by a good portion of the fanbase. Dark stuff is rarely mentioned on Dynamite. 

[Bigdoggsteel]

18 hours ago, Miller11 said:

I was almost at the stage where I was ready for a complete break from Wrestling. AEW annoys me far too frequently and I have this awful feeling it’s going to be a great big missed opportunity. The vitriol any valid criticism is met with, as well as the likes of Meltzer and Zane showing ludicrous bias is tiresome. My favourite brand of late, NWA power, has killed itself completely, tonight’s show being absolute evidence. But Survivor series really pulled out all the stops. Genuinely exciting and progressive. I hope it’s a sign of things to come and not a short lived reaction.

I love NWA power, my favourite too. I'm going watching the episode later. What happened??

[Bigdoggsteel]

2 hours ago, DE. said:

If you've followed WWE for a while you know they'll derail their own momentum soon enough. Until Vince is gone they will just shoot themselves in the foot over and over again. Vince has been out of touch for over a decade now - still has occasional flashes of brilliance but is never able to sustain it. 

Interestingly WWE got no post-PPV boost from Survivor Series for Raw. It was actually slightly down in viewership from the previous Monday. Goes without saying that isn't a good sign. A shame as well, considering Raw was actually good this week. 

It's disappointing if the NWA are going to erase the episodes they had in the can featuring Cornette. Assuming he didn't make any other stupid gaffes on commentary I don't think many would have minded if they had aired the rest of those episodes whilst making it clear Cornette wouldn't be working past those tapings. I enjoyed watching the Thunder Rosa stuff on Power this week, but it was a bit of a momentum killer to have such a patched together show after they had been building so well. 

AEW Dark was actually pretty good this week. A really great segment with Shanna explaining her journey to AEW (including being told by TNA she was too fat for TV - wtf), and some good matches. Although I have to say AEW's use of Kenny Omega perplexes me. He had a pretty even match with Jack Evans for some AAA Championship few people would likely have heard of. Omega is one of the biggest stars they have, but putting him in matches with the likes of Janela and Evans on AEW Dark is counterproductive in my mind. It'd be like Hulk Hogan in WCW's heyday being put in matches with people like Alex Wright or Jim Duggan on WCW Pro and the matches actually being competitive. It's no slight on Janela or Evans, but a top star shouldn't be having competitive matches with lower mid-carders on the B-show - imo at least. It makes Omega look weaker than he should and I don't think it really gives a rub to the other guys as it's largely forgotten about or not even seen by a good portion of the fanbase. Dark stuff is rarely mentioned on Dynamite. 

I'd say Omegas role is up to himself. He comes across as a humble guy. I think he is just trying to build others up a bit. His time will come and as someone who only knew a bit about him beforehand, I respect the fact he isnt trying to hog the limelight 

[DE.]

3 hours ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I'd say Omegas role is up to himself. He comes across as a humble guy. I think he is just trying to build others up a bit. His time will come and as someone who only knew a bit about him beforehand, I respect the fact he isnt trying to hog the limelight 

I totally agree, but at the same time there are going to be a lot of AEW fans who don't know too much about him, and I don't think he's necessarily being shown in the best light at the moment. In fairness to him and the Young Bucks they are all doing their bit to get other talent over rather than get themselves over. Maybe even a little too much.

Edited November 27, 2019 by DE.

[DE.]

1 hour ago, Bigdoggsteel said:

I love NWA power, my favourite too. I'm going watching the episode later. What happened??

Jim Cornette made a joke about a wrestler riding through Ethiopia with fried chicken strapped to his back in the previous episode. Goes without saying that did not go down very well and caused a social media outcry. Cornette resigned as a result. Problem is NWA Power is a taped show and they already had a bunch of episodes in the can. They appear to be dumping those episodes due to Cornette's commentary being on them. As a result this week's show was basically just interviews, a look at Thunder Rosa's MMA debut and an empty arena match. 

NWA are in a difficult position because even if they overdubbed Cornette's commentary on the unaired episodes it's not like he can be airbrushed off camera. 

[Vinjay]

When Rick Rude appeared on Nitro and Raw (on same night) they couldn't edit him off because DX were out there too. So I wouldn't say it's a difficult position more like an impossible position. Now if Chris Benoit had taped stuff (Raw started going live every week in 1999 with the obvious exceptions like UK tapings) that were aired a week later that would have been edited out no matter how important to the show. That's the exception.

 Fried chicken is a stereotype for black people in the US but it's possible that's the first thing he thought of. I wouldn't be surprised if he likes fried chicken himself. He's been accused of racism before though so you can see why many won't give him benefit of the doubt. The Ethiopian starvation joke was obviously intended as exactly that and it's one he had told before.

[DE.]

It was an old 80's joke that Cornette has said at least twice before (once on an old NWA show and once on a WWF show in 1995) and I doubt he intended it in a genuinely racist way, but nonetheless he decided he'd rather quit than apologise. Apparently NWA did give him the option to say sorry and continue on, but as we all know Cornette never apologises.

As I said, I think they could have aired the remaining episodes (ensuring there was no other commentary gaffes before airing them) and it wouldn't have been a problem in the knowledge that Cornette would be gone for the next set of tapings. Obviously they felt they couldn't risk the PR backlash by doing that though. 

Interestingly both Corgan and Lagana, who own and book NWA have some pretty questionable posts on social media themselves relating to race. 

[DE.]

Jeez, just seen the YouTube reactions to this week's NWA Power episode... not good to say the least. Granted that's to be expected for a wrestling show that had hardly any actual wrestling on it.

[Miller11]

I’m a big Cornette fan. I absolutely believe his joke was just outdated rather than with any racist intent.

He is very scathing of those who he feels make a mockery of wrestling. Anyone who indulges in invisible hand grenades, dickflips and death matches has felt the sharp end of his tongue. He is critical of what he calls “cosplay video game wrestlers”, including, but not limited to The Young Bucks and Kenny Omega - he dislikes overly choreographed bouts with too much visible cooperation, too many false finishes and a lack of logic. He critiques these matches sometimes harshly, but consistently and thoughtfully.

This has put him on a collision course with the very vocal (or at least twitter active) fans of these styles. He is of course massively outspoken and won’t back down from an argument. The narrative they like to peddle is that he is “toxic” and has no place in wrestling. Lagana addressed a twitter outrage a couple of weeks ago when he was accused of “mocking suicide victims” when someone unearthed a quote from a while back he has uses frequently before and since, namely that someone should be “took out into the parking lot and hung”, which is obviously just hyperbole. He was annoyed at the fact Lagana took it so seriously when he felt it was just a case of bandwagon jumping by his detractors. Apparently he told Lagana during a phone call after the Power commentary incident that “it wasn’t fun any more” and he basically didn’t want the hassle. I think there was also an element of annoyance that Lagana was scapegoating him having failed to pick up on it in post production.

He certainly doesn’t need the money, and has for a long time said he will only take bookings that he will enjoy doing. He consulted with Tony Khan before AEW got going and told him “I’m the only person you can trust is telling you the truth because I’m not looking for a job”. It’s a shame for the fans who enjoyed his commentary, and anyone with a wrestling show really ought to try and pick his brains. NWAs first show with him gone was horrendous.

His biggest crime was not understanding that he has pissed people off so much they would obviously claim to be outraged and offended.

[DE.]

I thought his "joke" was in poor taste to be honest, and he certainly has said some racist things in the past (there's a video floating around on YouTube which is absolutely indefensible) which doesn't help his cause. With that said I don't think Cornette is inherently racist and IMV the onus is on the NWA Power editing team to remove anything like that from the show before it's uploaded. These shows were literally done weeks in advance, so there is absolutely no excuse for not catching something like that and editing it out. As soon as I heard it I cringed and knew it wouldn't end well. If NWA have nobody with the common sense to hear something like that and realise you can't say something like that in 2019 then they need to hire somebody smarter to go through their shows before they air. 

Unfortunately for Cornette the wrestling business has passed him by. He's still stuck in the "good old days" and can't adapt to what wrestling is nowadays. He's got a great mind for the old school part of the business but he doesn't seem to grasp that it's an extremely small niche within the industry nowadays. As Brian Zane said in his video about Cornette blocking him on Twitter, wrestling never stands still and you can't go backwards. Promotions need to keep up with the times and whilst a specialist, retro show like NWA Power will always have a set of fans, it will never be as big as the likes of WWE or AEW. It's not 1985 any more, and it's important for shows to pull in the younger demograhic as well as the older demographic. You'll only do limited business if you're focused on pulling in fans from the 80s.

For the record, the "cosplay" argument Cornette makes is baffling to me when all wrestling is cosplay, and it always has been! These people are literally pretending to be fighters. The NWA show is cosplaying the 1980s for goodness sake. It's a silly and nonsensical argument. 

Edited November 28, 2019 by DE.

[Bigdoggsteel]

12 hours ago, DE. said:

Jim Cornette made a joke about a wrestler riding through Ethiopia with fried chicken strapped to his back in the previous episode. Goes without saying that did not go down very well and caused a social media outcry. Cornette resigned as a result. Problem is NWA Power is a taped show and they already had a bunch of episodes in the can. They appear to be dumping those episodes due to Cornette's commentary being on them. As a result this week's show was basically just interviews, a look at Thunder Rosa's MMA debut and an empty arena match. 

NWA are in a difficult position because even if they overdubbed Cornette's commentary on the unaired episodes it's not like he can be airbrushed off camera. 

Ya I knew about Cornette, but I didn't watch the new episode. A lot on Twitter slating it too. Aldis denies they changed the show and if he is lying, that is bad form. They should have just played the remaining Cornette episodes if he didn't say anything else controversial.

To be honest i didn't cop the comment as racist when I listened, but in hindsight in this day and age, it probably was bad. Even if he said french fries instead of friend chicken... What do you think? 

Edited November 28, 2019 by Bigdoggsteel